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LFS said protein skimmer is needed for nano tank.


tarunteam

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I have a 12 gallon tank and up till now i was running it without a skimmer. But my LFS keeps insisting i need one. Is there any truth to this? I'm working on getting chaeto for the mini fuge (ac-70 with custom red led's)

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thomas8man

I work for a LFS too and most of them will suggest this and gotta look at the aspect if you are planning to use a fuge. I would just not worry about the protein skimmer and just keep on top of your water changes mostly. Most fuges take about say 2-3 months to get fully active and running at full speed. Skimmers almost do the same thing as a fuge they pull organic material from the water. Last thing working for a fish store most of the time some people get sold stuff that is not needed.

 

Personal experience i have had a fuge for 4 months now and works great and I have turned off my protein skimmer because it was loud and did not pull much of anything other than little bit of other almost algae skim.

 

So final option I would not worry unless you see some problems you are dealing with or you plan to do SPS.

 

If any questions just ask bromigo.

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Depends on your system - without knowing your situation we can't really say 100% that it's not needed. Or at least that it wouldn't be helpful.

 

Some things to think about -

 

Have they given you a reason why you could benefit from a skimmer? Which skimmer are they suggesting to you?

 

What are some of the specifics of your tank as well as your maintenance routine? How long has the tank been running? Are you experiencing any issues such as nuisance algae or generally dirty looking water?

 

What's your rationale for starting a refugium? Compared to a typical refugium a skimmer is much more efficient at removing waste. So if the choice is between a skimmer and a refugium and your goal is nutrient export then a skimmer is going to do a better job and with less maintenance generally (an exception would be a large fuge relative to the system volume).

 

The reasons most people say a skimmer isn't needed on small nano tanks are:

- There are only a few skimmers that are size appropriate for small tanks and not all of them are designed all that great

- A skimmer can introduce new problems such as microbubbles or more noise or an ugly pump in the tank

- For the cost of a good nano skimmer you can buy several years worth of salt mix. It may be easier to just rely on water changes for nutrient export. After all you should still do water changes even with a skimmer (the timing may be a little more relaxed though).

 

So in summary IMO skimmers aren't necessary on a nano-tank, but under certain conditions they can be effective and helpful.

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I have a 12 gallon tank and up till now i was running it without a skimmer. But my LFS keeps insisting i need one. Is there any truth to this? I'm working on getting chaeto for the mini fuge (ac-70 with custom red led's)

 

It is actually needed less in a nano as large % water changes are very easy. Plenty of gorgeous tanks on here without them.

 

People have SPS growing in vases with nothing but a airline, someone going to tell them a skimmer is needed? pfft.

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Yes, No,or maybe, it depends on a lot of different things, a protein skimmer is just one part of the puzzle, most of what a protein skimmer is used for is nutrient export, there are many different ways to manage nutrient export, water changes , activated carbon, ........

 

You would be better served to give an overall description of your set up and what you want to keep and how you manage your setup.

Then you can get the info that you need.

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No, it is not necessary if you are faithful with water changes, taking care of the sandbed, and not overstocking or over feeding. Take a look at nano sapiens tank. Its the same size as yours and has been running for many years.

 

On the other hand if you are struggling to control algae due to inexperience in husbandry a skimmer can be a very useful piece of equipment.

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picoreef78

I found it helpful in my 34 gallon tank.

 

Be weary of a fuge, there is only so much it can pull in a little space.

 

1+ to everything everyone said.

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So just as catch all so i don't reply to everyone individually with the same info. I'm currently dealing with algae problem where its growing everywhere, even with water changes doesn't seem to be going away. I've started running GFO, Purigen, and Carbon to mediate it in the mean time. My fish died recently so feeding has been reduced to once a week for corals. The biggest issue is i have pretty bad algae outbreaks day or two after feeding and it looks ugly :(. With a pico fuge, i was hoping to sustain a pod population for future fish, some extra oxygenation at night (alternate night cycle) and maybe some nutrient export to reduce the nutrient spike.

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I have a 12 gallon tank and up till now i was running it without a skimmer. But my LFS keeps insisting i need one. Is there any truth to this? I'm working on getting chaeto for the mini fuge (ac-70 with custom red led's)

 

No. You absolutely do not NEED a skimmer. With a small tank like that, you can handle nutrient export through water changes easily and the skimmer options in my opinion aren't that great for the smaller tanks.

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So just as catch all so i don't reply to everyone individually with the same info. I'm currently dealing with algae problem where its growing everywhere, even with water changes doesn't seem to be going away. I've started running GFO, Purigen, and Carbon to mediate it in the mean time. My fish died recently so feeding has been reduced to once a week for corals. The biggest issue is i have pretty bad algae outbreaks day or two after feeding and it looks ugly :(. With a pico fuge, i was hoping to sustain a pod population for future fish, some extra oxygenation at night (alternate night cycle) and maybe some nutrient export to reduce the nutrient spike.

 

What's your nutrition level now? Sounds like your tank has big nutrition problem, and skimmer will help. But in the meantime, stop feeding corals for now. They don't require it and you can resume after figuring out the nutrition export problem. Do more water change to see how it keep nutrition level down. How long have the tank been running and with what fish previously? The rocks/sand could have soaked with nutritions and it will take some time to clean them up.

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Purple firefish. I do about a gallon a week with half on Wednesday and half on Sunday. The tank is about 3 months old now. I only really feed because i dont want the snail and 1 emerald crab to starve.

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If there are algae, the snail and crab will have stuff to eat. I think you can up your water change to 5 gallon a week. 1 gallon is a bit too less, especially without other filtration system like skimmer or refugium. But 5 gallon a week with such low bioload should be able to keep nutrition down enough that you don't have to run a skimmer. But do test your water for nitrate and phosphate though.

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Go back and read ajmckay's post again. Great advice.

 

In short a skimmer is a tool that serves a specific purpose. Nutrient export... and they are good at it (if you get the right one). If you can use another means to achieve that purpose then there is really no need. However, from what you mentioned it sounds like you have some nutrient problems. A skimmer could help.

 

But... before you spend a small fortune on a good skimmer, Its a good idea to first find out what is causing your nutrient spike to begin with as a skimmer would only be a band aid at this point.

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Source wise i know it's probably the feeding and the rocks. The reason i'd prefer to avoid using a skimmer is that they're really loud. The tank is in our living room and we'd like to keep the tank silent as possible.

 

Depends on your system - without knowing your situation we can't really say 100% that it's not needed. Or at least that it wouldn't be helpful.

 

Some things to think about -

 

Have they given you a reason why you could benefit from a skimmer? Which skimmer are they suggesting to you?

 

What are some of the specifics of your tank as well as your maintenance routine? How long has the tank been running? Are you experiencing any issues such as nuisance algae or generally dirty looking water?

 

What's your rationale for starting a refugium? Compared to a typical refugium a skimmer is much more efficient at removing waste. So if the choice is between a skimmer and a refugium and your goal is nutrient export then a skimmer is going to do a better job and with less maintenance generally (an exception would be a large fuge relative to the system volume).

 

The reasons most people say a skimmer isn't needed on small nano tanks are:

- There are only a few skimmers that are size appropriate for small tanks and not all of them are designed all that great

- A skimmer can introduce new problems such as microbubbles or more noise or an ugly pump in the tank

- For the cost of a good nano skimmer you can buy several years worth of salt mix. It may be easier to just rely on water changes for nutrient export. After all you should still do water changes even with a skimmer (the timing may be a little more relaxed though).

 

So in summary IMO skimmers aren't necessary on a nano-tank, but under certain conditions they can be effective and helpful.

I listed most of my routine above. Basic 1 gallon water change weekly, Once a week feeding (setting that to zero form now on), monthly GFO and carbon change, rattling the purgien bag every now and then and occasional dusting with a turkey baster. The tank is really young about 3 months only. I figure part of the problem is the rocks and sand as the water stays pretty clean. I have some filter floss in which i try to wash every few days. The biggest reason i want to avoid using a skimmer is they don't look good on open top nano's and are really loud. I ordered some chaeto for my mini-fuge (ac70 with a 12 watt red light)

 

If there are algae, the snail and crab will have stuff to eat. I think you can up your water change to 5 gallon a week. 1 gallon is a bit too less, especially without other filtration system like skimmer or refugium. But 5 gallon a week with such low bioload should be able to keep nutrition down enough that you don't have to run a skimmer. But do test your water for nitrate and phosphate though.

I'm really trying to avoid doing large water changes because my LFS is about a hours drive and i hate having to drive so far just to get a few bucks of water.

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One thing you might look into is buying a bucket of salt online or local, trash can and buying your water from a local grocery store

mix it at home and you are good to go.

 

I really think if you upped the amount of water you change to 5 gallons a week until you got things under control, it would solve most of your problems.

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Salt I have. RO water at the store is frikin 1.67 for gallon, compared to 25 cents at the lfs. I also have no faith in the water from the store too lol .But yea. I'll up the changes if its only for a few weeks .

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reefernanoman

I have a 12 gallon tank and up till now i was running it without a skimmer. But my LFS keeps insisting i need one. Is there any truth to this? I'm working on getting chaeto for the mini fuge (ac-70 with custom red led's)

 

I've been running my Nanocube 28G since 2012 with no skimmer with great success. I only have easy monti SPS though. LPS and zoas don't care for a skimmer.
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What i would do is determine the cause of high nutrients. Its not just feeding 1 fish if you feed it lightly.

 

It could be various factors causing the algae.

A skimmer is not needed if you can evaluate the cause of algae.

 

Your tank is only 3 mnths old, it will go through algae stages.

 

What wxactly is your maintenance routine;

 

Do you vacuum your sandbed

 

Do you Change out filter floss 1-2 times a week

 

Do you use a turkey baster on the rocks

 

What your cuc numbers

 

If running an aio do you clean out the back chambers

 

Do you use an hob filter

 

Do you clean out the pump/hoses monthly

 

What are your nitrates & phosphates at?

 

Sorry for all the questions but we may be able to figure out the issue and help

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Just found some of your responses and answered my own questions. Lol

 

I would advise to do 2g water changes for now, 2 times a week. That helped my 10g algae issues

 

Vacuum your sand bed lightly with every water change

 

Use the turkey baster every wc before syphoning

 

Stop rinsing the filter floss. Buy a bulk bag and replace it twice a week

 

Rinse your carbon bag at every water change-they get filthy

 

 

 

Whats your water source? Distilled, ro/di?

 

 

If running an hob- try cleaning it monthly, intakes, pump etc. Same with powerheads

 

If all in one, scrub down the back chambers and syphon the buildup back there- i recommend putting a snail or 2 back there.

 

If you only have 1 snail, I would get a few more since you have algae.

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I would request to see TDS readings from your LFS water. I know a lot of people use and trust LFS water but the reality is that not every LFS has good water. Don't take their word for it, ask them to test it in front of you. Either way try to up your water changes - if you think about it what's the difference in effort between 1 gallon and 3-4 gallons?

 

Right now you need to give your tank a boost. If you add chaeto to a little refugium it definitely won't grow and it may possibly die. You need to reduce the algae in the tank first. IMO the best thing you could do for your tank if you're looking to keep it long term is to invest in your own RO filter... If you're changing your water out for high TDS new water you're going to have a bad time.

 

The rocks may be leaching some nutrients into the water - but that shouldn't last forever. Some carbon/GFO can alleviate this effect. If you have a ton of rock try taking some out and let it sit in a bucket for a while with some flow. Was the rock sufficiently cured when you started adding inhabitants?

 

In many cases, nuisance algae is caused by:

- insufficient maintenance

- high TDS change water

- overstocking

- insufficient CUC

 

I'm not clear about whether you have fish or not, but for the future when you have fish try to avoid not feeding your fish... That seems to be something we do when we run into algae problems thinking that we're adding too many nutrients into the tank. Obviously if you feed a ton you can scale It back some or modify the way you feed to keep less from being wasted - but ultimately underfeeding isn't healthy for the fish. Usually results in bad coloration, changes in behavior, and ultimately starvation.

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Salt I have. RO water at the store is frikin 1.67 for gallon, compared to 25 cents at the lfs. I also have no faith in the water from the store too lol .But yea. I'll up the changes if its only for a few weeks .

In this case, I will use the budget to install a RO/DI system first. That's more important and saving you more time. And probably cheaper than a good skimmer too. I got a 5 stage from eBay for less than $150. Also my wife loves the taste of RO water. Those wife points are invaluable!

 

But the general rule is, the less water change you do, the more filter equipments you need, and vise versa.

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What i would do is determine the cause of high nutrients. Its not just feeding 1 fish if you feed it lightly.

 

It could be various factors causing the algae.

A skimmer is not needed if you can evaluate the cause of algae.

 

Your tank is only 3 mnths old, it will go through algae stages.

 

What wxactly is your maintenance routine;

 

Do you vacuum your sandbed

 

Do you Change out filter floss 1-2 times a week

 

Do you use a turkey baster on the rocks

 

What your cuc numbers

 

If running an aio do you clean out the back chambers

 

Do you use an hob filter

 

Do you clean out the pump/hoses monthly

 

What are your nitrates & phosphates at?

 

Sorry for all the questions but we may be able to figure out the issue and help

Just to make sure I completely answer all your questions.
Maintainence routine: Bi-weekly water changes, ocassional blasting of the rocks (with dynamite, jkjk). I try to lightly vaccume the bed, I have fine black gravel, so i have to be pretty gentle or it'll pick up the gravel.
CUC : One big Nas, few nerites, 1 dead turbo, 1 emerald carb, 3 nerites.
Clean up: Superlazy, never cleaned any of em. Though, there is only algae in the intake pipe. The HOB itself is pretty clean. Small patches on the outflow. But otherwise fairly clean.
Params: Phospate is at zero (probably cuz of gfo) Nitrates are on the slightly higher side. Trying to get those down.

I would request to see TDS readings from your LFS water. I know a lot of people use and trust LFS water but the reality is that not every LFS has good water. Don't take their word for it, ask them to test it in front of you. Either way try to up your water changes - if you think about it what's the difference in effort between 1 gallon and 3-4 gallons?

 

Right now you need to give your tank a boost. If you add chaeto to a little refugium it definitely won't grow and it may possibly die. You need to reduce the algae in the tank first. IMO the best thing you could do for your tank if you're looking to keep it long term is to invest in your own RO filter... If you're changing your water out for high TDS new water you're going to have a bad time.

 

The rocks may be leaching some nutrients into the water - but that shouldn't last forever. Some carbon/GFO can alleviate this effect. If you have a ton of rock try taking some out and let it sit in a bucket for a while with some flow. Was the rock sufficiently cured when you started adding inhabitants?

 

In many cases, nuisance algae is caused by:

- insufficient maintenance

- high TDS change water

- overstocking

- insufficient CUC

 

I'm not clear about whether you have fish or not, but for the future when you have fish try to avoid not feeding your fish... That seems to be something we do when we run into algae problems thinking that we're adding too many nutrients into the tank. Obviously if you feed a ton you can scale It back some or modify the way you feed to keep less from being wasted - but ultimately underfeeding isn't healthy for the fish. Usually results in bad coloration, changes in behavior, and ultimately starvation.

I want to get a RO unit. Just have no hookup as none of the faucets have threading nor do i have anywhere to store it. I had fish. He jumped out when the pump fell because it wasn't secured properly by me. Feeding is now at zero.

In this case, I will use the budget to install a RO/DI system first. That's more important and saving you more time. And probably cheaper than a good skimmer too. I got a 5 stage from eBay for less than $150. Also my wife loves the taste of RO water. Those wife points are invaluable!

 

But the general rule is, the less water change you do, the more filter equipments you need, and vise versa.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1750612/dangerously-clean-water-used-make-your-iphoneo.o

 

Also, if your analogy holds true, i'll probably go for a skimmer as i want to reduce the amount of regular maintenance i have to do.

So I think i have it down to what are the possible reasons:

 

-Rocks probably leaching

-Young tank

-Possibly high TDS from LFS water

-Not enough water changes.

 

Plan of action

-Increase water changes to two gallons

-Install skimmer to reduce required regular maintenance

-No feeding until there is a fish in there.

-Test LFS water

-Replace instead of reuse filter floss

- Wash out HOB unit once a month

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