IV fluid bags for dosing

[aaron186]

Probably a stupid question but...

 

I am a medicine resident. I just purchased my 2 part solution and realized that the solutions are sodium bicarbonate, calcium chloride, and mag sulfate. I have easy access to all of those at the hospital premixed in IV bags. I don't want to steal from the hospital so this is just theoretical. I think most of them are mixed in sugar water but some of them are in free water. Not sure what the concentration of 2 part is. Has anyone else in the medical field looked into this?

[braaap]

Don't be cheap.

[aaron186]

I don't think anyone who is in this hobby is cheap lol

[aaron186]

So we should only do things that are expensive? lol... That wasn't the point of my question

[jbb]

I think the big difference will be in the trace elements found in 2 part .

 

I'm unsure of the exact concentrations, but it involves more math that my glass of whiskey will allow me comprehend.

 

Good luck

[braaap]

I think the big difference will be in the trace elements found in 2 part .

 

I'm unsure of the exact concentrations, but it involves more math that my glass of whiskey will allow me comprehend.

 

Good luck

 

 

"Whiskey"

 

[jbb]

 

 

"Whiskey"

 

Are you at Harold's again ?

[Matteo]

uhhh IV bags are expensive....

[aaron186]

They are free if you liberate them but that's not really my point. I was just wondering if anyone looked into it before.

[HarryPotter]

They are free if you liberate them but that's not really my point. I was just wondering if anyone looked into it before.

*steal

 

There's just too high a risk/reward ratio (besides being that A****** that steals from a hospital).

 

Risk: Arrest, losing your job, Unknown additives, likely very low concentration makes solutions useless. They're for IVs not to significantly raise the [Elements].

 

Reward: Not much! Solution concentration is very low. You may ruin someone's osteoporosis treatment, good for you

[Mariaface]

If you want to purchase your own IV setup for dosing, then by all means do so. Keep in mind that it's just gravity-fed dosing, and comes with all the risks that you'll need to minimize.

 

But don't 'liberate' medical supplies from a hospital that's counting those IV fluids in their inventory. Someone's going to need those more than your tank does. And you really don't need theft on your record.

[ReefWeeds]

They are free if you liberate them but that's not really my point. I was just wondering if anyone looked into it before.

I guess I don't understand the point of its not to "liberate". Is it cheaper to buy medical grade stuff than the additives made for our reef tanks? Or are you truly wondering if someone has taken supplies from a hospital to use in their tanks? Plenty of members make their own two-part dosing by buying the components rather than going with a premade solution and there are a few threads on that I believe.

[Newstead]

But don't 'liberate' medical supplies from a hospital that's counting those IV fluids in their inventory. Someone's going to need those more than your tank does. And you really don't need theft on your record.

+1^

Had total knee replacement 4 years ago, spent the night in agony, nurse kept telling me I was getting pain meds ... not. Someone had replaced the morphine with saline. Nurse fired, hospital investigation, 2 extra days in hospital for me, but once the pain is out of control... just don't do it, even if it is "just IV fluids". Has made me very leary of what I am actually receiving in hospitals.

[aaron186]

Relax. It was just a theoretical question if anyone had considered it. I'm not stealing from the hospital. And nobody is dying or suffering from a missing bag of mag sulfate regardless. These bags get hung stopped and thrown away more than they are actually infused. But like I said it was just out of curiousity. I already own a year or two supply worth of 2 part

[Mariaface]

Even light electrolyte imbalance is more important to a hospital than your aquarium - no one needs to be 'dying or suffering' for a bag of magnesium sulfate to be missed.

 

I'm relaxed, but I'd rather not have someone read this thread and think 'well okay then, I should totally do this' in the future. So out of curiosity, yes, you can set up a weakened solution like the ones in hospitals, and let that drip into your aquarium. But not one taken from a hospital.

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Relax. It was just a theoretical question if anyone had considered it. I'm not stealing from the hospital. And nobody is dying or suffering from a missing bag of mag sulfate regardless.

 

Yes, I'm afraid this is how Internet forums work in general. Come on folks, even if this guy was gonna steal IV bags from a hospital, do you really think we're going to stop him? Everyone should know how important medical supplies are, and if someone isn't bright enough to get that, we're not going to talk them out of it. One warning about stealing from a hospital for good measure is enough. The next 4 were a waste of everyone's time.

 

These will work in theory. The big problem is that you don't know the unknowns. Copper levels in drinking water are usually considered safe for humans in concentrations up to 2 ppm, but the general consensus among aquarium keepers is that copper levels of 20ppb are in the danger zone. While an IV bag with a copper concentration of 500ppb might be fine for some humans in some circumstances, I wouldn't want to put it in my tank. My point is that these IV bags are made for humans and likely have human toxicity in mind, not that of reef aquariums.

 

I personally went with the bulk dry additives from BRS. Fairly cheap when purchased in that quantity, and they've worked for me.

[aaron186]

I'm a doctor. Nobody needs to lecture me about patient safety... I'm well aware of it

[Tamberav]

I'm a doctor. Nobody needs to lecture me about patient safety... I'm well aware of it

 

I have to lecture doctors all the time about it, damn doctors!

 

 

 

 

On that note, I don't think anyone is dumb enough to steal IV bags for their tank when DIY 2 part is so damn cheap..... but I guess people do a lot of stupid shit in life.

[aaron186]

Like I said. Was just curious if anyone has looked into it before. It's really not that serious

[William]

I have used empty IV bags (Anesthesia resident here) as containers for two part dosing. I was limited in space and was able to hang them in my stand. They work pretty well with a good quality dosing pump. All solutions

Meant for humans are far too weak for your aquarium (just look at the concentrations in the bag/bottle)

[ajmckay]

I have used empty IV bags (Anesthesia resident here) as containers for two part dosing. I was limited in space and was able to hang them in my stand. They work pretty well with a good quality dosing pump. All solutions

Meant for humans are far too weak for your aquarium (just look at the concentrations in the bag/bottle)

 

This is where I thought the initial question was geared toward (vs. using prepared IV solutions). I can't really comment on the difference between the solutions, but it's not like your typical 2 part is that high a level of purity. I'm sure the stuff that's in IV bags is purer, but might involve some work to draw a relationship between the differing solution strengths. Probably not hard to find the equivalent dosing rate though for the IV bags.

 

Anyways, for a "no-frills" dosing system it seems like an IV bag would work. You would just have to calculate the solution strength based on the lowest dosing speed you can consistently achieve. It would also be cool to find a re-sealable IV style bag so you don't have to worry about spills and such. If I knew where to get the little plastic wheel flow controllers off discarded IV bags I would be using them all the time for cool stuff.

 

On the hospital supplies issue - agree it's definitely not okay to take useable stuff though (begs the question of why it's being thrown away in the first place). And that's from a patient perspective who ultimately has to pay the bill. Hospitals waste way too much shit as it is. The medical industry needs significantly more cost accountability.

[William]

Hospitals cannot use supplies once they have been used......do you really want someone's old IV bag?..... Also the solutions we use in medicine are far too weak to have any real effect. (NSW is far more concentrated than plasma). Most solutions meant for IV infusion are buffered to between 7-7.4