Clowns fought off ich in-tank without treatment - now what?

[Cencalfishguy56]

OP I'll play devil's advocate and say leave them in the tank. Get them on a good diet like LRS and keep everything low stress. Watch your water quality, and let their immune system do it's job.

 

Then why are you even QT'ing?

good point! screw QT!! yea right! I like my wallet to not hurt too bad!

I went to law school because I couldn't do math!

lol I took alot of chem so I had no choice

[cnseekatz]

I was in my LFS yesterday and he had a powder blue with ich in one of his display tanks. This dude's store is completely legit, and he knows what's up. He doesn't medicate or QT if they have ich. He said that there really is no effective medication to cure ich once it's present. It might help in the very early stages, but by the time you see symptoms, it's probably too late for the medication to make a difference. He said that the best thing to do is make sure that the fish gets plenty of nutritious food to eat, and their own immune system will fight it off (or not). He said that if the other fish in the tank are healthy and strong, they will resist the ich naturally.

 

I've never heard this approach before, and can't vouch either way, but he's been in the game a LONG time, and all the other fish in that tank looked perfectly fine.

[gus6464]

Fish can get an immunity to certain stuff but I don't think ich is one of them. I know for sure marine velvet is one.

[ReefWeeds]

I was in my LFS yesterday and he had a powder blue with ich in one of his display tanks. This dude's store is completely legit, and he knows what's up. He doesn't medicate or QT if they have ich. He said that there really is no effective medication to cure ich once it's present. It might help in the very early stages, but by the time you see symptoms, it's probably too late for the medication to make a difference. He said that the best thing to do is make sure that the fish gets plenty of nutritious food to eat, and their own immune system will fight it off (or not). He said that if the other fish in the tank are healthy and strong, they will resist the ich naturally.

 

I've never heard this approach before, and can't vouch either way, but he's been in the game a LONG time, and all the other fish in that tank looked perfectly fine.

 

totally off topic - did you go for water? And what did you come back with?

[cnseekatz]

Fish can get an immunity to certain stuff but I don't think ich is one of them. I know for sure marine velvet is one.

 

We actually talked about that too. He said Velvet is more serious, and more deadly than ich.

 

totally off topic - did you go for water? And what did you come back with?

I DID go for water... and I MIGHT have come back with a nice little piece of ORA Red Planet. He was fragging a piece for another customer, and accidentally knocked a two branch piece off. I'm a sucker!

[jimbonds]

I QT and treat all of my and my neighbors' fish. I've had to treat for ich and velvet a couple of times with both hypo and copper. Regardless of whether you go copper or hypo it's a tedious task. Copper, while effective, is very hard on the fish and you have to test for copper concentration daily (prefferably right before the lights go out since that's when the tomites excyst and try to find a host fish). Hypo, my preffered method, is much easier on the fish. In fact, because hyposalinity requires the fish to use less energy to osmoregulate it helps them boost their immune system. The only caveat is that when you bring them out of hypo you have to go very slowly (1 point per day, 2 points MAX) as it is stressful. But with hypo you only need to test for ammonium and salinity. If you use a product like Seachem Prime then testing for ammonium is kind of pointless because it messes up the test. But it doesn't matter much because you'll be doing WC's every two-three days. Another point is to forget about the cycle. Hypo and copper will both kill off a lot of bacteria and any critters in your floss or live rock. In fact, if you were to seed the tank with floss or live rock you'd get an ammonium spike as everything died. This applies to both copper and hypo. I suggest you read the following article which helped me tremendously!

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/

 

Someone else mentioned it but I want to reiterate that you need to leave your DT fallow for 90 days. Don't screw yourself with shortcuts.

 

Ich goes through three main stages. When it is on the fish (white dots) it is called a trophont and this lasts from 3-7 days with the peak percentage being 4-5 days. When it falls off the fish it will look for a surface to encyst on and reproduce. This is called a tomont and it lasts 3-28 days with a peak at day 6 +/- 2 days. It's interesting to note that research shows the ich has a hard time encysting on smooth surfaces so it's wise to use only glass, acrylic, and PVC. Do yourself a favor and skip anything like rock. Now, the next phase is excystment where the tomites burst out in search for a host. This is the critical part where they are vulnerable and you will kill them. They usually have 30-36 hours to find a host or die and some can go to 48 hours. This is the only phase that hyposalinity, copper, and other treamtments affect the ich. When they re-attach to the fish they are protected by the fish flesh and mucus membrane and when they encyst they are protected as well.

 

One reason I recommend hypo for you is that even though copper is faster you still have to leave your DT fallow for 90 days so you might as well take an extra week for hypo. Get the fish in the QT tank with new or used water. Get the temp up to 81-82 degrees (this will accelerate the life cycle of the ich). Run an RO drip until you get the specific gravity down to 1.008-1.009 and keep it there. Do a 25-50% WC every 2-3 days. You can use Seachem Prime in the NSW to help manage Ammonium but if you don't you need to test daily. When you do the WC, use a sponge to scrub the surfaces before you suck out the water. This will break loose many of the tomonts and suck them out. After 8 weeks in hypo you need to bring the specific gravity up by 1-2 points per day. Going hypo might take a few days to a week, and coming out will take 8-16 days. So you should finish just before your DT has gone fallow for 90 days.

 

One other note I have is that the hypo method I mentioned above is actually a combination of two methods detailed in that article I provided. Research has shown that large daily WC's disrupts the life cycle and kills the ich. While you won't be doing WC's daily, combined with the hypo it will have the same effect.

 

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I'd be happy to send details of my hospital and even pics of the four fish I'm treating right now.

[SunWyrm]

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I'd be happy to send details of my hospital and even pics of the four fish I'm treating right now.

Beautiful post Jim!

[Dylan.N]

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I'd be happy to send details of my hospital and even pics of the four fish I'm treating right now.

Great advice! Thank you!

[braaap]

Raising of temperature has no affect on the lifecycle of ich. There is a HUGE thread on RC about it. Copper is the go to treatment as many fish tolerate it very well and you only need to do it for a week.

[gus6464]

 

We actually talked about that too. He said Velvet is more serious, and more deadly than ich.

I DID go for water... and I MIGHT have come back with a nice little piece of ORA Red Planet. He was fragging a piece for another customer, and accidentally knocked a two branch piece off. I'm a sucker!

 

Velvet ended up pretty much nuking my tank. I know it's supposed to be a fish disease but after my tang died from it for some reason my SPS started to STN. I did a massive water change and still lost a bunch of stuff. It started with my kole tang who died, then spread to a clown who died, then spread to my princess damsel who had a huge splotch but 2 days later it straight up disappeared and has been fine ever since. My other clown never even got it so I guess those two are immune now.