rickztahone Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/swing-check-valve-true-union-1-604b37ea63ea51fa5fb3d8a89ec056e6.html?sku=202457&gclid=CjwKEAjw6sC5BRCogcaY_dKZ2nESJABsZihxGHnLADC_LBjAEpTLyLmCrOxiAiKZSPfoGmFaYszmsBoCHsXw_wcB I actually already have one of these on my return pump, however, I am always in the camp of people that think, "if it can fail, it will" and I'd hate to think what a stuck or defective check valve may result in. Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 I suppose I can always make 4x 3/4" holes instead of 4x 1" ones? I'd be concerned with noise at 3/4" piping rather than 1". Thoughts? Quote Link to comment
Cencalfishguy56 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I suppose I can always make 4x 3/4" holes instead of 4x 1" ones? I'd be concerned with noise at 3/4" piping rather than 1". Thoughts? it will only fail if it gets dirty, if you keep it clean and get one of the more expensive check valves then you should be fine 1 Quote Link to comment
Matteo Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I actually already have one of these on my return pump, however, I am always in the camp of people that think, "if it can fail, it will" and I'd hate to think what a stuck or defective check valve may result in. just make sure your return is like only an inch below the water level Quote Link to comment
Benny314 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Don't run a bean animal, go herbie. That way you only need 2 drains, you have a 3rd hole drilled you can now use for a return line. No need to over complicate things. 2 Quote Link to comment
gus6464 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 ^+1 Bean is cool but honestly on a tank that small it's basically useless. Use that extra hole as your return. 1 Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 Don't run a bean animal, go herbie. That way you only need 2 drains, you have a 3rd hole drilled you can now use for a return line. No need to over complicate things. ^+1 Bean is cool but honestly on a tank that small it's basically useless. Use that extra hole as your return. I came to the same conclusion as I was doing some research just now. I think I'll run a Herbie overflow, but will probably run a turned down elbow to reduce noise on the taller of the two? Also, does the taller of the two need to be thinner at all? I thought I saw that in a picture somewhere. Either way, I think this is the most logical direction to go in considering what I have to work with. I would use the last hole for the lily pipe by directly inserting it through the last bulkhead and making that pvc pipe really high in the overflow box. If the water ever gets that high that it would reach the lily pipe, then I'm sure I am in bigger trouble anyways, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment
gus6464 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I came to the same conclusion as I was doing some research just now. I think I'll run a Herbie overflow, but will probably run a turned down elbow to reduce noise on the taller of the two? Also, does the taller of the two need to be thinner at all? I thought I saw that in a picture somewhere. Either way, I think this is the most logical direction to go in considering what I have to work with. I would use the last hole for the lily pipe by directly inserting it through the last bulkhead and making that pvc pipe really high in the overflow box. If the water ever gets that high that it would reach the lily pipe, then I'm sure I am in bigger trouble anyways, lol. Herbie is full siphon on main drain and nothing should be coming down the emergency unless there is an overflow. A properly tuned main siphon is absolutely silent. You want the water line inside the overflow box to be at least 2 inches above the drain for it to be silent. The only time you will see water go down the emergency is when you turn off return pump and restart and the main drain is getting rid of all the air inside it to get back to full siphon. The only scenario in which an elbow is recommended is when you don't have enough vertical space in your overflow and the distance between main drain pvc entry and emergency are very close together. You would do this when using the synergy ghost overflow for example. Keep main drain and emergency the same size. Also I would ditch the lily pipe and just drill 2 more smaller holes where your overflow is on the main tank towards the top for 2 returns. You can y split the return to 2x 1/2-3/4" bulkheads if you want. Or you can keep it simple with just 1x 3/4" return. Lily pipes look like crap after a while so you have to constantly clean them. 1 Quote Link to comment
Benny314 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I fitted a durso type top to my emergency drain. I did this as I run about 10-20% overflow down my emergency as it supplies my refugium with water that hasn't been past the skimmer and UV to feed all the critters so the durso keeps it quiet. The emergency should be setup with just a trickle going down it when in normal use, it allows you to keep a constant water height in the overflow box/weir to avoid the primary drain sucking air or water noise from it falling too far into the weir. Here's a pic of my setup, the picture was taken before I finished setting it up and I hadn't drilled the top of the durso yet. I have since added a ridged breather pipe to the top of the durso that loops down to just level with the top of the tee. When the water level rises due to an issue with the primary drain and touches the breather, it makes the emergency pipe become full syphon and guarantees the emergency keeping up with the return pump with out overflowing the DT. Water only falls an inch into my weir and my DT water level is only an inch from the top. I wouldn't trust the emergency draining fast enough when not a full syphon. It probably would, but still I haven't left it to chance. Quote Link to comment
Matteo Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I have a durso overflow and it is 100% silent Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 Herbie is full siphon on main drain and nothing should be coming down the emergency unless there is an overflow. A properly tuned main siphon is absolutely silent. You want the water line inside the overflow box to be at least 2 inches above the drain for it to be silent. The only time you will see water go down the emergency is when you turn off return pump and restart and the main drain is getting rid of all the air inside it to get back to full siphon. The only scenario in which an elbow is recommended is when you don't have enough vertical space in your overflow and the distance between main drain pvc entry and emergency are very close together. You would do this when using the synergy ghost overflow for example. Keep main drain and emergency the same size. Also I would ditch the lily pipe and just drill 2 more smaller holes where your overflow is on the main tank towards the top for 2 returns. You can y split the return to 2x 1/2-3/4" bulkheads if you want. Or you can keep it simple with just 1x 3/4" return. Lily pipes look like crap after a while so you have to constantly clean them. From my reading, my understanding was that the emergency serves as a "wet" emergency and not truly dry like that of a Bean Animal. It is this being "wet" that allows the small trickle. Please correct me if I am wrong? Quote Link to comment
Benny314 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 You are correct, just a trickle down the emergency. As I said it keeps the water level set in the weir. I'm running more down it as it feeds my refugium. http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/ Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 You are correct, just a trickle down the emergency. As I said it keeps the water level set in the weir. I'm running more down it as it feeds my refugium. http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/ Yeah, that is what I got from reading that article too. Thx. May I ask why you didn't choose to run a T on your return pump to feed the fuge instead? Quote Link to comment
Benny314 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Wanted water that had just left the tank and not been past the skimmer. My return line tee's to my UV which also drains into the refugium to up the flow through it. 1 Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 Wanted water that had just left the tank and not been past the skimmer. My return line tee's to my UV which also drains into the refugium to up the flow through it. Got it. That makes sense. I will have a second DC-3000 run my manifold. I didn't want varying water pressures to affect the gate valve on the main siphon line. Quote Link to comment
gus6464 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I found adjusting the water line so that a teeny tiny trickle falls down the emergency is a huge pain in the ass. Also if your emergency pipe is smaller which on my tank it is, it can still be heard. My emergency is 1/2" so a trickle is always heard. If if was 1" then that wouldn't be an issue. The Red Sea Reefer is basically a herbie but the way you set it up is you don't do a trickle on the emergency. You just have the water line almost up to the emergency and main drain is not very far from it so the siphon has enough force to suck up everything on the surface of the water but still remain silent. Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 I'm seriously considering not making this a peninsula tank and just placing it up against a wall like I originally intended. I may be over complicating things... Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 Here may be my noob question of the day (remember, I am new to reef tanks), could one possibly have some live rock coming OUT of the tank slightly? Obviously corals wouldn't be able to grow above the water line, but is it possible or not advisable? I was thinking of adding somewhat of a ledge that goes above the water line, then, routing a loc line through that rock and having the return still supply a good amount of flow through the tank. I can add an airline for siphon break right under the water line. Bad idea? Quote Link to comment
Benny314 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Lots of people have rock structures protruding from the tank. Mainly a feature in shallow rimless systems. Check out 4x5's shallow reef for example or google search shallow reef tank, you'll find lots of examples. One thing that some have reported is that they get salt creep on the protruding rocks and it can cause excessive evaporation due to the rock wicking water up from the tank. Sure I read somewhere someone had a fishy sea side smell as a side effect but I suspect that was due to them using cured live rock as opposed to dry macro rock and the smell was established bacteria dying off. 1 Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 Lots of people have rock structures protruding from the tank. Mainly a feature in shallow rimless systems. Check out 4x5's shallow reef for example or google search shallow reef tank, you'll find lots of examples. One thing that some have reported is that they get salt creep on the protruding rocks and it can cause excessive evaporation due to the rock wicking water up from the tank. Sure I read somewhere someone had a fishy sea side smell as a side effect but I suspect that was due to them using cured live rock as opposed to dry macro rock and the smell was established bacteria dying off. That's good info, thanks. My brain keeps turning as to what a suitable solution to my problem may be and I think I got it. I think I will simply not make the inner overflow box a coast to coast. I will have it end a few inches from the side of the tank. I will drill a hole in the tank itself (3/4") and have the return coming through there. That way it will be fully blocked from one side by the overflow, but on the other it would not be. Things could be worse I suppose. Quote Link to comment
Halo_003 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 The only thing bad about rock poking out of the water that I can see is it could interfere with a screen top. Hypes edgeless islet is a great example of this. I'd link it but I'm on mobile, you can search the name though. Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 A fellow RC member was nice enough to give me some extra acrylic he had. I had originally intended to use the acrylic as baffles but then I thought I may just make a tank lid out of it. Originally I was going to use glass as a top but I cringed at the idea of possibly dropping the lid and it shattering inside the tank. I didn't want to use a whole piece of acrylic because it bows badly. So, I figured I'd try to make a lid which just had the edges and use fishing line to prevent jumpers. So far I have just done the cut out but still need to drill the holes and buy the fishing line. Also, I need to buy 2 more clips because the way it sits still bows in the middle. Of course there is no telling if all of these things will prevent it from bowing regardless, but I will cross that bridge when I get there. For now, this will be my temp solution and it came at no extra cost, so why not? Here are the pics of it in progress: This is the way the tank looks with the painted bottom btw: DSC08505 by Rick Vasquez, on Flickr DSC08509 by Rick Vasquez, on Flickr So first I cut the acrylic sheet down to size and make sure it fits: DSC08510 by Rick Vasquez, on Flickr This is what we started with: DSC08511 by Rick Vasquez, on Flickr All areas marked off. The inner lines represent where I will clamp down a T-ruler and give enough space for blade clearance. Notice I marked little tic marks. Those represent where I would stop with the drop in circular saw so that I could round those corners. Worked out fine: DSC08512 by Rick Vasquez, on Flickr Drop ins done and now time for the jig saw. When cutting acrylic with a jig saw, find the finest blade you can and it would go through acrylic like butter: DSC08513 by Rick Vasquez, on Flickr All done: DSC08514 by Rick Vasquez, on Flickr Here's the lid on the tank: DSC08515 by Rick Vasquez, on Flickr So, few things, I wish I would have marked the outside white paper to do the cutting. I had taken it off initially because there were areas of the acrylic that were cut. I didn't want to use a cut section so I peeled one side off to check which area to use. Then, I didn't want to place the unpeeled side down in fear of scratching it so I marked on that side. Now, I cannot get the marks off by wiping it away. I will have to sand it off I suppose. No biggie, but lesson learned. I still need to clean the edges as well, but I ran out of time. Later this week I will make a jig to drill all the holes and get the fishing line to finish this little project. Hope you liked 1 Quote Link to comment
Benny314 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Try glass cleaner, it's permanent marker right. Should wipe right off. 1 Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 Try glass cleaner, it's permanent marker right. Should wipe right off. someone told me to use Mr. Clean magic eraser. I was going to try acetone but not sure if that would be too harsh. I hate using any kind of chemicals around my fish tanks. Quote Link to comment
rickztahone Posted May 14, 2016 Author Share Posted May 14, 2016 I had previously done a mock-scape and was advised to keep it lower away from the water line. I had some time to mess around with the rocks today and was kind of happy with the turn out. Not completely happy with it but it is getting there. The "ledge" on the right will be a littler higher by being glued somehow and this will hopefully cover my return lines. The scape would be flipped and the right would be closest to the overflow, I just didn't want to flip the whole tank to work on it. Let me know what you think: DSC08542 by Rick Vasquez, on Flickr DSC08545 by Rick Vasquez, on Flickr 1 Quote Link to comment
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