UGH ICH :-(

[msparklym13]

I'd at least give the clownfish a chance and get them away from the life sucking parasites. If you are worried about the move killing them, doing nothing might yield the same result.

 

Then I'd do a big water change and add activated carbon to try and give your corals a better environment to recover in.

Sounds like a good plan! :-)

[Tamberav]

Use a proven method to cure ich and move the clowns. They don't have a chance inside that DT by the looks of them. I bought two severely ich infested clowns from petco and they had to be caught, bagged, and brought home to a QT with meds, they survived the stress fine. I would say your clowns have a chance if you treat them with a proven med.

[ReefWeeds]

Your advice is solid. I honestly think it is too late for my Clowns. It has been 3 weeks and 2 weeks with Herbtana. I had an emergency work trip for the past 5 days. Personally I think moving them to a QT will probably kill them. Stella mentioned the same. I am learning from this experience but now wondering more about my coral. We are setting up a full time QT in my office next week so I never encounter this again. I might move the clowns but worry they won't be able to cope. Meanwhile I am wondering why my coral isn't opening and was wondering if you have any ideas-?

 

I think you should still attempt moving them. While they may not make it, the slow route isn't a good one. If they're still eating and acting normal, then they have a fighting chance.

 

Regards to the coral - looks like GSP. They do that sometimes. What are your tank parameters? Has anything changed? Light schedule? Nitrates? Phosphates? Calcium? Alk? They tend to like some nutrients in the water to be happy in my experience. But they can be moody suckers

[jimbonds]

It seems like this is a real problem for a lot of people lately. I've treated fish for two of my neighbors recently as well as a fish I purchased from an LFS. I've also been helping some people on Nano-Reef lately so I'll provide you the same advice I gave them.

 

Someone else posted the article but I'll post it again for reference...

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/

 

You can get a lot of info from this but I'll break down my methodology for you real quick. The only way you'll fix things is to QT your fish and run your display fallow for 8 weeks. I prefer 12 just to err on the side of safety. Cut yourself short and you may end up doing yourself a disservice.

 

I prefer hypo-salinity for a few reasons. The first is that it's far less stressful on the fish. In fact, because hypo-salinity requires less energy from the fish to osmoregulate, it acts as an immune system booster. If your fish are already struggling this extra boost could save their lives. Hypo-salinity is only stressful once you are in the process of raising the salinity but by that time they should be very healthy and well fed and be able to handle it with ease. Of course, you can only raise 1 point per day (two points max). This is one point in specific gravity. So you would go from 1.009 to 1.010 on day one and then 1.010 to 1.011 on day to and so on. Please follow this as raising faster will almost certainly harm if not kill your fish.

 

The method I use actually combines multiple methods. Hypo-salinity is obvious. WC's once every two days to control ammonia also serve to disrupt the ich life cycle. Every water change I scrub all surfaces in the tank, which are all smooth to discourage encystment, to prematurely rupture the tomont and kill any tomites that haven't matured yet.

 

Set up a small (10-15 gallon) tank bare bottom with an HOB filter, power head, heater, nano protein skimmer (optional but preferred), air pump, and some PVC elbows. As you go down to hypo you'll need all of the oxygenation you can get. The HOB filter, which should only have filter floss in it, plus the skimmer and air pump will facilitate air exchange. pH is a bit of a problem so getting all the of the CO2 out is paramount and this is done with air exchange. The small power head adds water flow which reduces the stress on the fish from going to such a small container. It also makes it difficult for the tomites to swim and find a new host. The PVC gives the fish hiding places which reduces stress. We use PVC because it is smooth and therefore easy to scrub and the ich has a harder time encysting on smooth surfaces.

 

Don't worry about cycling your tank. Don't include any live rock or sponges or anything from your DT. Hypo will kill almost anything living that isn't a fish so if you use anything from your display you may inadvertently cause an ammonia spike.

 

Fill the tank with either new or used salt water. Add your fish. Raise the temp to 81-82 degrees to accelerate the ich life cycle. Then begin a drip of RO/DI water to lower the salinity to the target of 1.008-1.010 over a period of two days. Use Seachem Prime with your WC's to detoxify ammonia and nitrates. Don't worry about testing for ammonia as Prime will mess with the tests. Monitor salinity and pH daily. Keep your pH low, like 7.4-8 (it will naturally lower itself as CO2 increases). Ammonia (NH3) and Ammonium (NH4+) are constantly switching back and forth (hundreds to thousands of times per second). It's the NH3 that is toxic. The balance between the two will be determined by pH so by keeping your pH lower you'll keep the balance in favor of the less toxic NH4+.

 

Every two days perform a large WC (2-5 gallons). Scrub or scrape all of the glass and PVC before syphoning out the water (again, this helps to kill and suck out some of the ich in the water and on the glass). Add the NSW at the target salinity of 1.008-1.010. Replace the filter floss in the HOB every week. After 6 weeks at hypo-saline begin slowly raising the salinity by 1 point per day. This should get you back up to 1.024-1.025 within two weeks for a total treatment time of ~8 weeks which is the minimum to run your DT fallow.

 

One critical point to remember is this is an infected quarantine zone. Do not use hoses, pipets, etc., in both tanks. Have one pipet and one syphon hose for each tank. Keep things sterile. Also, you MUST use a calibrated refractometer. Swing arm hydrometers are not accurate enough. Above 1.010 and you aren't doing anything against the ich, and below 1.008 you'll be hurting your fish. If you can't calibrate your refractometer with a calibration solution then you can use 0 TDS RODI water.

 

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. I'd be happy to provide further guidance and pictures of my hospital setup. Because this is new to you I strongly recommend you use this method and stay clear of copper and formalin as they are far more advanced methods and much more stressful on the fish.

[msparklym13]

And now for the conclusion I am sure all of you have been waiting for ;-)

Drum roll....

Clowns are in a QT.

 

I know many of you knew this would be the case but as a beginner I took advice from many sources. Surely other beginners will see this thread and hopefully not make the mistake of thinking Herbtana will work (even if LFS assures you it will).

 

I want to add additional findings for any hobbyist considering using the Herbtana treatment(or any similar brand).

1. I dosed my aquarium once per day for almost two weeks. There was absolutely no change in my fish's appearance at any time.

2. About a week ago my tank began looking dingy. My corals seemed sad. My GSP quit opening all together.

3. The smell of Herbtana is very strong. It is so strong that I found fish wouldn't eat unless I fed them 6-8 hours after dosing tank

4. Algae began building up at a very quick rate a few days after I began using the treatment. I pride myself on a very clean tank and have never had it look so haggard.

 

I quit using the product on Wednesday. The change in two days is amazing. All of my corals are bright, open and happy. My frogspawn has resumed splitting and most algae is virtually gone. The tank is clear and sparkly- Further my GSP opened up today! Clearly this product is not reef safe- Did it kill anything? No. However my idea of "safe" is no change in size/appearance/health of all living creatures. The product states to dose 7 days, 10-30 days for extreme cases. I dosed daily for a total of 12 days.

 

Please know I am not writing to bash this product or any like it. This is purely my experience and I would have loved a detailed timeline when I was looking for Ich remedies. When googling Herbtana, Dr. Foster's gives it 5/5 with 100% success! As many of the more experienced aquarists stated the only real method is to QT. I truly hope my learning curve helps others hoping for real life testimony.

 

Thank you for your awesome comments and tips. Having a great place to learn is what makes the hobby so encouraging!

[ReefWeeds]

Good to hear all this. How are the clowns doing in the QT?

[msparklym13]

Good to hear all this. How are the clowns doing in the QT?

Wow Stella you read my mind to check in!! LOL I have sad news- the clowns and firefish died. It was absolutely my fault for waiting to QT and I think they were just too sick. Now for the very odd question I am hoping to get insight on. My yellow Goby who I assumed was the reason for my tanks demise is fine. A few days after putting him in my tank the clowns started showing Ich. He still has not shown any signs and seems to be healthy albeit grumpy (Just kidding his frown makes me laugh). Is this possible? He is still in my tank on his own with only a shrimp, corals, brittle star and CUC to keep him company. Can a fish be a carrier? To be honest I assumed he would perish or go to QT with the rest but he seems perfectly fine. I won't get another fish for the recommended 3 months but I'm just not sure what to do with Goby! Has anyone else dealt with this? Thanks so much!

P.S. I realize the gender is not determined but I can't help but throw a he or she into the mix with each fish :-)

[msparklym13]

BTW, I have no clue what this is and why it was in the live rock pot but I got it and put my frogspawn it it! SO cool -- Any ideas??

[seabass]

Sorry about your fish. Just remember, it's easily treatable. Yeah, I made the same mistake; it sucks.

 

It's possible that your goby brought in the parasite, but still appears unaffected by it. As long as a fish is in your display, so will the parasite (it has to be absolutely free of all fish to get rid of marine ich). So move your goby, treat it, and keep your tank fallow for 6 to 8 weeks.

[msparklym13]

Sorry about your fish. Just remember, it's easily treatable. Yeah, I made the same mistake; it sucks.

 

It's possible that your goby brought in the parasite, but still appears unaffected by it. As long as a fish is in your display, so will the parasite (it has to be absolutely free of all fish to get rid of marine ich). So move your goby, treat it, and keep your tank fallow for 6 to 8 weeks.

Is it fair to hate and like this mother fuc+er??? Shrimp, Star and CUC are all good?

[seabass]

Shrimp, Star and CUC are all good?

Yeah, all of your inverts can and should stay in your display. They cannot host the parasite.

[msparklym13]

Soooo...... any ideas how to catch a wily Goby who knows all my tricks? He stays by his cave watching me. If I even think of opening the lid he dives into the rock. I have no clue how to get him out!! I tried luring him up with food- nope. He is too smart. I need a fish trap!

[seabass]

Here are some threads with ideas.