Softies not growing?

[dandelion]

My 6.25 Pico has been running since October and I have several zoas, mushroom, some LPS and some SPS. Running AI prime and nitrates and phosphates are undetectable with my API kit. Calcium ranges between 400-440 and Alk between 8-9. I have good flow for my SPS but I do not notice much current-induced movement in my zoas so I figure it's OK.

 

I noticed appreciable skeletal growth on my SPS. My LPS has a lot of tissue growth but not much skeletal growth, but what baffles me is I almost do not see any growth in my softies. I had my light on too bright at one point (22W) and even my SPS browned out a bit under it. Now that I have it dialed back down I still don't seem to see any growth.

 

Is my water just too clean for my softies? Or am I missing something here?

[Elizabeth94]

Maybe. However, sps do not brown due to too much light, they turn brown due to too much nutrients. If your lighting was too bright, they would have bleached in no time.

 

I find that lps takes a bit longer to grow their skeleton than most sps, they also require a fair amount of calcium and alk to do so. I find that some zoas are fast growing, and some are extremely slow, so I guess that can vary. Still, I feel like you would have seen decent growth in the mushrooms.

 

I would just say that everyone's tank is different. I can't grow xenia coral for the life of me, and that is supposed to be a weed. As long as everything is alive and has good color, I would say you are OK

 

I had my light on too bright at one point (22W) and even my SPS browned out a bit under it.

[dandelion]

I was wondering why it browned instead of bleached out too. My Seposa and Digitata are happy under strong light, but the orange birdnest and porcillopora browned out a bit. I can see the tip of the birdnest has regained some colors after turning down the lights so I don't know. I know API tests aren't the greatest but I really couldn't detect any nitrate or phosphate with it after testing repeatedly. Maybe I'll get a salifert test.

 

Maybe. However, sps do not brown due to too much light, they turn brown due to too much nutrients. If your lighting was too bright, they would have bleached in no time.

 

I find that lps takes a bit longer to grow their skeleton than most sps, they also require a fair amount of calcium and alk to do so. I find that some zoas are fast growing, and some are extremely slow, so I guess that can vary. Still, I feel like you would have seen decent growth in the mushrooms.

 

I would just say that everyone's tank is different. I can't grow xenia coral for the life of me, and that is supposed to be a weed. As long as everything is alive and has good color, I would say you are OK

 

[Tamberav]

The challenge of running a mixed reef tank is you end up with corals who have different needs. If your SPS are growing well then it makes sense that your softies are not, your tank has more ideal conditions for the SPS it sounds like.

[dandelion]

Light and water flow I can solve with placement. But if it's nutrient level in the water there's not much I can do.

 

The challenge of running a mixed reef tank is you end up with corals who have different needs. If your SPS are growing well then it makes sense that your softies are not, your tank has more ideal conditions for the SPS it sounds like.

[Hammerstone]

I am having the same type problem. I mixed anenomes that need the light with NPS and the NPS can't take the light and I can't move them.

[dandelion]

That's why I keep my anemones with my fish in one tank and my corals on my Pico...

 

I'm hoping the colors will recover on my corals too.

 

I am having the same type problem. I mixed anenomes that need the light with NPS and the NPS can't take the light and I can't move them.

[AUSSIE NANO]

How often do you do water changes and in what quantity? I have a 5 gallon nano and do 50% per day.

[dandelion]

Wow I'm pretty lazy u only do 50-70% every 10 days.

 

How often do you do water changes and in what quantity? I have a 5 gallon nano and do 50% per day.

[markalot]

For the SPS, are you sure your Alk is staying stable? Hard to do in a small tank. SPS tend to brown or die if Alk is not stable while some softies might continue to look good but not grow much.

[Elizabeth94]

Phosphate can be extremely hard to test for in some tanks.. It can show up as 0 but still be present in the aquarium. Usually that is if you have some algae in the tank that eats it up.

[seabass]

Keep in mind that the API phosphate kit goes up in 0.25 ppm increments. With the target range of phosphate being 0.01 to 0.03 ppm, the API kit won't detect any phosphate until it's about 10 times higher than the recommended level.

 

Actual zero phosphate is unusual in a tank that doesn't run phosphate reducing media. Phosphate is an important nutrient in our reef tanks as photosynthetic corals use it for energy. Too little, and corals tend to become pale and unhealthy. Too much, and corals can brown out and pest algae can become a problem.

 

Unbound phosphate is easy to test for; however, algae blooms and cyanobacteria can bind it, as they utilize it for growth. You need a good low range phosphate test kit to determine the unbound phosphate level. Salifert is OK, but it can still be frustrating to determine if phosphate is within the 0.01 to 0.03 ppm range.

 

I like the Hanna ULR Phosphorus Checker to check phosphate. Its digital readout is easier to decipher. Because it reads out in ppb of phosphorus, the target range becomes 3 to 10 ppb.

 

Also, like Mark pointed out, stable alkalinity is very important. Stability is often more important than an ideal value. I pick a decent reef salt mix and try to stabilize the parameters to those numbers. With hard corals in your tank, it might be necessary to dose a two part additive in order to keep parameters stable.

[Clown79]

Each tank is different. I have 2 with similar corals.

 

15g - xenia was fragged twice before it stopped spreading but in my 10g it hasn't spread at all.

15g- brains just went down hill yet in the 10g its repaired and growing

Zoas-some just melt away while others keep spreading.

 

I find lps grow slow.

I know xenia love flow, light, and some nitrates.

 

Its quite fascinating that 2 tanks run the same way with similar parameters have different results with corals.

 

I agree with seabass-api just isn't very reliable try salifert.

[seabass]

I agree with seabass-api just isn't very reliable try salifert.

I actually feel that API test kits (when not expired and properly performed), are fairly reliable. The problem with their phosphate kit is that it's a high range kit (which isn't at all suitable for detecting phosphate within the target range).

 

The Salifert kit is slightly better, but it's still very difficult to determine if phosphate is at least 0.01 ppm. It makes you try to match the 0.03 color swatch (which basically works, but isn't ideal).

[Clown79]

I truly think that most kits aren't 100% accurate - human error is a factor as well.

I know Api ammonia and phos have been an issue for many. Otherwise I think testing is better with Api than not at all:)

 

 

I personally prefer salifert for some tests due to the ease in perorming the test and getting results.

 

I recently read that one should get some sand from their tank and crush it, test the sand for phos as its more likely to be accurate than just the water.

[AUSSIE NANO]

Wow I'm pretty lazy u only do 50-70% every 10 days.

 

Oh that is far too little. A minimum for any size thank is 25% daily. Cheers!

[seabass]

I know Api ammonia and phos have been an issue for many. Otherwise I think testing is better with Api than not at all.

Just to beat a dead horse, the API phosphate kit is not really better than nothing at all. It can't detect low levels of phosphate (at or below 0.01 ppm), and you won't see any positive results until the phosphate level is at least 10 times higher than it should be (even 10 times too high is hard to distinguish between 0.00ppm). It has nothing to do with accuracy or reliability; it's just a high range kit (and you need a low range kit for a reef tank). Keep in mind that the target range is 0.01 to 0.03 ppm.

 

Actual picture of an API phosphate color chart

 

However, I've used API's ammonia test kits for years and have not had a real problem with them.

[dandelion]

I do run Carbon, purigen, and phosguard in my tank to try keeping nutrients low. I have my second chamber as a mini fuge to help control nitrate and phosphate as well. Right now I have 3 Astraea snails and they have been keeping any algae in check. I have a couple small patches of GHA that hasn't really spread so I decided to let it be. I don't remember ever getting any cyano outbreaks.

 

I have been using 2-part dosing. I simply add 1/4 teaspoon of one or the other into my 0.5G ATO reservoir. It usually last about 4 days. When I refill, I put the other part in. I don't test daily, maybe once to twice a week but readings have been stable (Alk between 8-9, Ca usually 400, once in a while 440.) Salinity is pretty steady (I leave a floating hydrometer in there for easy observation) and temperature is around 78, +- 0.1 with my Reefkeeper. Only time temperature drops a bit is when I pause flow for target feeding.

 

I think one of the main reasons my porcillopora browned out was because my snail knocked it off while I was out of town. It is still growing so hopefully in time it will recover its color.

 

I don't have much experience with other company's test kits, but I think API's calcium and alk tests are sufficient and easy to use. The end point is so obvious you don't have to squint and move between light sources to compare against the color chart.

 

I know it's not easy to do a mixed reef in a Pico.

[aviator300]

How often do you do water changes and in what quantity? I have a 5 gallon nano and do 50% per day.

 

Why?

Oh that is far too little. A minimum for any size thank is 25% daily. Cheers!

What !!! Again, why?

[AUSSIE NANO]

 

Why?

What !!! Again, why?

If you have to ask I have to ask why you don't know?

[AUSSIE NANO]

For the SPS, are you sure your Alk is staying stable? Hard to do in a small tank. SPS tend to brown or die if Alk is not stable while some softies might continue to look good but not grow much.

It's easy. Just do daily 50% water changes. Very cheap and so simple to do. Cheers.

I do run Carbon, purigen, and phosguard in my tank to try keeping nutrients low. I have my second chamber as a mini fuge to help control nitrate and phosphate as well. Right now I have 3 Astraea snails and they have been keeping any algae in check. I have a couple small patches of GHA that hasn't really spread so I decided to let it be. I don't remember ever getting any cyano outbreaks.

 

I have been using 2-part dosing. I simply add 1/4 teaspoon of one or the other into my 0.5G ATO reservoir. It usually last about 4 days. When I refill, I put the other part in. I don't test daily, maybe once to twice a week but readings have been stable (Alk between 8-9, Ca usually 400, once in a while 440.) Salinity is pretty steady (I leave a floating hydrometer in there for easy observation) and temperature is around 78, +- 0.1 with my Reefkeeper. Only time temperature drops a bit is when I pause flow for target feeding.

 

I think one of the main reasons my porcillopora browned out was because my snail knocked it off while I was out of town. It is still growing so hopefully in time it will recover its color.

 

I don't have much experience with other company's test kits, but I think API's calcium and alk tests are sufficient and easy to use. The end point is so obvious you don't have to squint and move between light sources to compare against the color chart.

 

I know it's not easy to do a mixed reef in a Pico.

As I mentioned. You don't need ANY of that stuff if you change 50% water each day. It's quick, easy and inexpensive! Cheers.

Just to beat a dead horse, the API phosphate kit is not really better than nothing at all. It can't detect low levels of phosphate (at or below 0.01 ppm), and you won't see any positive results until the phosphate level is at least 10 times higher than it should be (even 10 times too high is hard to distinguish between 0.00ppm). It has nothing to do with accuracy or reliability; it's just a high range kit (and you need a low range kit for a reef tank). Keep in mind that the target range is 0.01 to 0.03 ppm.

 

Actual picture of an API phosphate color chart

 

However, I've used API's ammonia test kits for years and have not had a real problem with them.

I do a 50% water change a day and get my water tested. Immeasurable Po4, nil No3 etc...... I rarely get the water tested. It's not worth the trip to the shop.

I truly think that most kits aren't 100% accurate - human error is a factor as well.

I know Api ammonia and phos have been an issue for many. Otherwise I think testing is better with Api than not at all:)

 

 

I personally prefer salifert for some tests due to the ease in perorming the test and getting results.

 

I recently read that one should get some sand from their tank and crush it, test the sand for phos as its more likely to be accurate than just the water.

I just get the shop to do the tests. They have quality kits and it's free. That said I almost never test. There is no reason to.

Phosphate is an important nutrient in our reef tanks as photosynthetic corals use it for energy. Too little, and corals tend to become pale and unhealthy. Too much, and corals can brown out and pest algae can become a problem.

 

Nonsense. PO4 on a natural reef is zero. My 5 gallon tests at zero. 50% water change per day. No fishes of course. Fish are an absolute no no in any aquarium containing corals. Fish require feeding and are highly reductive on the REDOX level. Cheers.

[Elizabeth94]

Are you nuts? LOL

 

unless you meant 25% weekly?

 

Oh that is far too little. A minimum for any size thank is 25% daily. Cheers!

[seabass]

Yes, large frequent water changes do make testing almost completely unnecessary. It's a valid method of export of organics and nutrients, while replacing consumed elements. The method is popular with many Pico owners (but becomes less feasible as tanks get larger).

Nonsense. PO4 on a natural reef is zero. My 5 gallon tests at zero. 50% water change per day. No fishes of course. Fish are an absolute no no in any aquarium containing corals. Fish require feeding and are highly reductive on the REDOX level.

Unbound phosphate might be undetectable (by most hobby test kits) on natural reefs, but I assure you that's it's not absolute zero. Lack of phosphate would be a limiting factor for phytoplankton, macro algae, certain bacteria, etc. While typically much lower in phosphate than our reef tanks, some phosphate is still present on natural reefs.

Corals (with their symbiotic algae) have been found to utilize phosphate for energy (growth). Although, high levels can negatively affect the density of coral skeletons.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/increased-phosphate-levels-increase-growth-rate-in-acropora-muricata
https://reefbuilders.com/2011/12/05/acropora-phosphate-growth/

In natural reefs, corals have a more diverse and constant supply of food. This is hard to replicate in our reef tanks, making phosphate a more important nutrient. This is often demonstrated as reef keepers use carbon dosing to create ultra-low nutrient systems. Without dosing amino acids and feeding, SPS coral becomes pale and unhealthy.

You see a similar effect when you quickly reduce the phosphate level of a tank with high phosphate levels. The corals become energy deprived and unhealthy as their energy source was quickly withdrawn.

I'm not promoting high phosphate levels in reef tanks, just recognizing that it is an important nutrient in our tanks. If you feed your tank anything, you are introducing some phosphate into the system.

Your tank works because you are not using aggressive phosphate reducing media. And while phosphate might not be detectable by your test kit, it is still present in your tank.

[markalot]

I am constantly reminded why I stay out of the newbie forums.

 

If you have to ask I have to ask why you don't know?

 

 

A picture of your tank and happy inhabitants please, otherwise please stop trolling.

[markalot]

Wait, this isn't the newbie forum. Haha.