Questions on how to set up a new tank/ transfer from old one?

[Pancetta]

Hey Folks,

My Red Sea Reefer 170 has arrived and I will be setting it up this weekend. My current tank is a Biocube 14. I have been thinking through the setup and transfer process and have a few questions.

Basic order I have in mind is below:

 

1. Water test tank before setup.

2. Setup tank, sump and all the equipment and leak test entire system with tap water.

3. Drain tank. Add sand and dry rock to tank.

4. Fill tank and system with salt water.

5. Make sure skimmer, heater etc. are all working properly.

6. Test water parameters.

7. Transfer current tank occupants to new tank.

 

Does this sound right? Is it OK to use live sand in the new tank? Seems like most LFS stock live sand instead of dry.

This is my first skimmer. Will the skimmer work during step 5 without a bioload?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

David

 

[Astinus]

I would be worried about a cycle...U said, "4. Fill tank and system with salt water."

I wonder if U could transfer some salt water from ur current set up and use the Live Rock from that tank and run that empty (W/out Livestock)

And test for a Cycle before u "7. Transfer current tank occupants to new tank.".

Just my 2 cents...

[Pancetta]

I would be worried about a cycle...U said, "4. Fill tank and system with salt water."

I wonder if U could transfer some salt water from ur current set up and use the Live Rock from that tank and run that empty (W/out Livestock)

And test for a Cycle before u "7. Transfer current tank occupants to new tank.".

Just my 2 cents...

Yea, I have been wondering about this as well? I could transfer some sand and live rock to the new tanks before transffering livestock.

[Astinus]

Yeah, Id do that 1st, before any Livestock...Be sure that if you do have a cycle, it shouldn't be as long as a full scale cycle.

[tsouth]

You should be fine as long as you keep your old rock and sand in water as it stays cured. It's really no different than a huge water change I would think. I wouldn't expect the dry rock or sand to have any ill effects as it's just pure. I would advise just using dry rock and dry sand and seeding it with your old live rock. This will be an easy way to avoid an ammonia spike as there will be absolutely no die off since it's dry. Also, you are more than welcome to use your skimmer.

Couple of key things:

1. Make sure you have your new water mixed and up to temp as well as aerated over a few hours

2. When adding water to the new tank, lay down the bags that the sand came in over the sandbed and pump water onto it such that it gently flattens and spreads. This helps a ton with cloudiness

3. Make sure your current live rock stays under water to prevent any die off. I would not recommending using your old sand. You've got a new nice clean tank, start it with a nice new sandbed. The rock will seed it just fine. You can pump in the new water into the tank first, make your aquascape and let it heat up and get some flow going. Then re-acclimate your livestock to the new tank.

 

I have gone through this same process and had no issues whatsoever. I held all my inhabitants in rubbermaid bins for a few weeks while the new tank was getting built, drilled, and delivered. I used new, dry sand, old live rock that was in my previous system (always submerged), and pumped in the water from the rubbermaid tanks as well as about 40-50 gallons of new water in a 65 gallon system.

 

Best of luck to you.

Disclaimer: I am not responsible for disasters! Just going off of personal experience and logic

[smiz]

I might be reading wrong but in #3 it sounds like you are using dry rock in the new tank. If this is the case then you are essentially starting a brand new tank. It wont matter if you use new or old water you are introducing dry rock and will have a cycle just like starting a new tank. If this is the case I would setup your new tank with your new sand and rock and wait for the tank to cycle before transporting inhabitants.

 

If you are using previous rock then do what tsouth said

[Pancetta]

I might be reading wrong but in #3 it sounds like you are using dry rock in the new tank. If this is the case then you are essentially starting a brand new tank. It wont matter if you use new or old water you are introducing dry rock and will have a cycle just like starting a new tank. If this is the case I would setup your new tank with your new sand and rock and wait for the tank to cycle before transporting inhabitants.

 

If you are using previous rock then do what tsouth said

Well, I want to build the new tank scape in dry rock so I can avoid hitchhikers. I will be moving my live rock from the Biocube too.

The live rock in the Biocube has montipora, soft corals and a RFA attached to it. I figured the live rock will seed the dry rock and I would not have to cycle the new tank.

[tsouth]

Wouldn't a typical cycle only spark due to ammonia? If there's no die off then I assumed there wouldn't be a spike and everything gets seeded rather than cycled. Correct me if i'm wrong, definitely wanted to know for my own purposes as well

[smiz]

Well, I want to build the new tank scape in dry rock so I can avoid hitchhikers. I will be moving my live rock from the Biocube too.

The live rock in the Biocube has montipora, soft corals and a RFA attached to it. I figured the live rock will seed the dry rock and I would not have to cycle the new tank.

I think this in incorrect in most cases. I am no expert but the reason we have a cycle is due to organics in the rocks we put into our tanks. Most dry rock is dried reef rock which leaves a lot of organics on the rock it self. The release of these organics is what causes the cycle. If others know more and can correct me please chime in.

 

If adding dry rock to an established system it is usually ok because it is not a large quantity. However if you are seeding a tank full of dry rock with a few pieces of previous tank rock I see you absolutely having a cycle which could be small or large and you could lose stuff.

 

If possible I would leave the livestock in our old tank and start testing for ammonia in the new tank. Or at least put your new rock in a bucket of water and test the bucket for ammonia.

[Astinus]

Forgive me for my previous replies. I shoulda kept my yap shut ...lol

I was just trying to watch out for issues, but! There have been some very good comments here, and I am learning.

So, TY for edumacating me

[smiz]

Wouldn't a typical cycle only spark due to ammonia? If there's no die off then I assumed there wouldn't be a spike and everything gets seeded rather than cycled. Correct me if i'm wrong, definitely wanted to know for my own purposes as well

I thought ammonia becomes present when the new rock is introduced due to organics in the rock? This could be wrong though so we need the experts. Turn on the bat signal.

 

Additional reason would be I was always told to seed my new tanks with established rock to quicken the cycle, but I still had a cycle. So that is kind of what is happening here. New rock with a few seed rocks being added.

 

Again I'm not positive just don't want the op to lose stuff!

[tsouth]

@smiz, I feel like if that was the case, then we wouldn't add ammonia to the tanks to jumpstart the cycle aka dead shrimp. Unless we're just boosting the cycle and not starting it.

[Pancetta]

I appreciate everyone's input on this. I heard of people transferring tanks without going through a cycle but am still not

sure why or how it happens??

 

One of my LFS does a lot of tank setups and transfers. I am going to ask them how they do it.

[markalot]

Howdy,

 

So a the "cycle" is simply an expression that means building up enough bacteria to handle the ammonia input to the tank.

 

So, assuming the rock is dry and fairly clean and you transfer all existing live rock and the same inhabitants you will generally be ok, but it would not hurt to dose some bacteria like Microbacter for a week or so just in case any organics from the dry rock overload the bacteria in the existing live rock.

 

Since organics take a while to start decaying this might not be that big of an issue but I honestly do not know.

 

I transferred the contents of a 46 and 40 gallon into a 150 gallon with no issues, but I did dose bacteria for weeks just to be safe.

 

I would also place any extra equipment in the sump just to help transfer as much bacteria as possible.

[Pancetta]

Thanks Markalot. I had not thought dosing bacteria.

[tiggs]

Well, here's the thing. You're essentially starting a brand new tank, especially if you're opting for dry rock instead of LR. No matter what you do, you'll still have to go through a cycle. Even if you were transferring all of your LR from your old tank to new, you'd most likely still get a spike of some sort since the new tank size is so much larger.

 

The reason tanks cycle is because ammonia is introduced and beneficial bacteria isn't established yet, so it can't effectively break it down through the nitrogen cycle quickly enough. Once your tank is established, fish waste is broken down through the nitrogen cycle almost instantly by beneficial bacteria. The die-off from adding LR isn't the only reason our tanks cycle. If this was the case, fish-only setups wouldn't have to cycle at all, which obviously isn't the case. The die-off is just one way of introducing ammonia to our tanks and getting the process started. Whether we add raw ammonia, dead shrimp, or a live fish (back in the day), it essentially accomplishes the same thing.

 

In other words, sure you could add dry rock and have no die-off. Your levels would all read 0. The problem is as soon as you add fish and they start producing waste, it would kick off the cycle and there's a good chance they wouldn't live through it.

 

For your situation, I would recommend one of two strategies..

 

1. Treat it like a new tank and start the cycle yourself with either raw ammonia or a piece of shrimp. Then, wait a few weeks and test your water throughout this period to verify that the ammonia is properly going through the nitrogen cycle (ammonia --> nitrites --> nitrates). Once your ammonia and nitrites read 0, then you're ready to add livestock.

 

2. Add bacteria-in-a-bottle (Prodibio makes a great product) to accelerate the process. Generally, they say you can add livestock after a day or two with the bacteria-in-a-bottle stuff, but I'd personally wait a week before adding livestock. In this method, you're manually seeding the tank with the beneficial bacteria yourself, so as soon as livestock start producing waste, the bacterial level is strong enough to process it.

 

 

Good luck!

[Pancetta]

Thanks Tiggs. Your strategies match what my LFS told me today.

I will pick up some Prodibio and pursue that route.

 

David