Trying to raise Alk. Help please!

[Andreww]

Mag: 1300

Cal:420

Alk:7

I'm using Seachem Salinity salt.

 

Im trying to go from 7dkh to 9dkh.

 

To raise Alk, I got a new product I found at the LFS called ME Coral, made here in the states .

 

The dose (ml/gallon) is higher than other liquid Alk I've come across.

On the bottle, it says the following:

To raise Alk by 10dkh (8dkh to 8.10 dkh) in 100 gallons, add 20ml slowly.

 

That means in my 30 gallon to go from 7 to 7.1 it'll take 7 ml right?

I started adding 15ml a day and so far I added 30ml.

 

I noticed a weird thing though: when adding this product slowly in the water, it turns into a white milky thing, but high flow dissolves it fast. Is that normal?

 

On another note, should I monitor calcium while adding Alk? Should I add calcium in the same amount as Alk? Or should I add Alk until I get to the desired level then start dosing calcium too?

 

Thank you !

[markalot]

Hmmm. I say hmmm.

 

First off, 7KH is not too low, things cab be fine at that level.

 

Second, the best way to raise KH in a smaller tank would be to do water changes with a high KH salt IMO.

 

Alk and Calcium are married and boosting Alk without also raising Calcium will result in a calcium drop. Rather than think about this it's much easier to buy a complete 2 part system (one part is Alk, the other part is Calcium plus some trace elements) and dose equal parts as you try and raise one.

 

You also want to know your usage of Alk since it's typically critical to keep this steady.

 

Is this a new tank? Are you sure test kits are accurate? What kind of test kits are you using?

[Andreww]

Thanks for your reply. Tank is 7 months old.

I'm using Elos test kits.

 

I have same brand calcium and magnesium liquids.

I have some mature LPS corals and just a couple SPS.

 

Phosphates 0

Nitrates 0

 

So I believe I should dose calcium in the same amount as Alk?

How long should I wait after dosing til I will get an accurate reading?

[chipmunkofdoom2]

To add to what Mark said above, adding alkalinity supplements without dosing calcium won't directly drop calcium. There's no reaction that causes Ca to precipitate out of solution when you dose carbonate (alkalinity). The reason Ca may drop over time when dosing for alkalinity is because the demand for Ca and carbonate is generally equal. By replacing the carbonate you use and not replacing the Ca, the end result usually will be that calcium ends up going lower simply because you're not replenishing it. Don't mean to be pedantic, as Mark's advice is correct. It's just important to be really clear when it comes to explaining reef chemistry.

 

The supplement you're using is likely a soda ash (sodium carbonate) supplement. Sodium carbonate has a slight pH elevating effect, and when you dose it to the water, you typically get a milky white cloud in the area in which you dose it. The cloud should disappear very quickly. Just be sure to dose into a high flow area and dose slowly. And try not to raise the alkalinity by more than 0.1 dKh per day.

 

Additionally, if you're dosing what the manufacturer recommends and your alkalinity is not increasing, check your magnesium levels. Mg prevents Ca and carbonate (alkalinity) from joining up in the water column and precipitating out. If your magnesium is low, the carbonate you're dosing could simply be joining up with Ca ions and falling out of solution.

[Andreww]

I've been using this salt for a good 3 months now. The bucket says 9dkh guaranteed. I change 5 gallons every week which is about 15% of the total volume.

 

Somehow, my Alk is always 7.

 

I recently brought my Mag from 1100 to 1300.

I'm trying to get my Alk higher just in case it drops to have some leeway..

[Andreww]

Thank you!

I'll check Mag again .

I though I'm not supposed to raise Alk by a full point, but 0.1? It'll take me 20 days or more to get to 9dkh. Im just trying to figure this thing out the first time and not kill anything in the process. Thank you!

[markalot]

I've been using this salt for a good 3 months now. The bucket says 9dkh guaranteed. I change 5 gallons every week which is about 15% of the total volume.

 

Somehow, my Alk is always 7.

 

I recently brought my Mag from 1100 to 1300.

I'm trying to get my Alk higher just in case it drops to have some leeway..

 

You are using Alk so it will drop daily. A healthy drop might be .25 up to a full 1 KH or greater daily in a heavily stocked tank. If you have some SPS and the tank is healthy KH is going to be dropping daily. The faster the corals grow the faster it will drop. See if you can determine your daily Alk usage by testing at the same exact time daily. Once done then you'll know how much Alk supplement you need daily to keep things stable.

[ManGups]

Alk 7 is not bad at all - natural sea water has Alk around ~ 7 dKH. Honestly keep ur Alk at the same as your freshly made saltwater from the salt. This way you you also have less dramatic changes in parameter.

Test the fresh made saltwater - it is not necessary that it will be 9 dKh as mentioned.

 

For example - i try to maintain my alk around 8.2 ~8.5 because that is what my salt mixes to around 8.3 .

 

Please read here: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

[Andreww]

I know 7 is not the worst Alk to have. But the problem I have is Alk burn on my monti cap every single time I do a water change. Although I add newly mixed water to the sump, the overflow return points in the direction of the red cap. It really takes a long time to come back from this. I suspected newly mixed water is as the bucket says, 9dkh, although I haven't tested it if I'm honest. So if I bring it up to 9dkh, then I can have the same Alk as the aquavitro salinity and not worry about anything else. Plus, I've read a lot of articles stating higher Alk makes for faster coral skeleton and coralline growth. As far as I'm concerned, I want to keep stable levels, and have my corals thrive.

[CronicReefer]

I know 7 is not the worst Alk to have. But the problem I have is Alk burn on my monti cap every single time I do a water change. Although I add newly mixed water to the sump, the overflow return points in the direction of the red cap. It really takes a long time to come back from this. I suspected newly mixed water is as the bucket says, 9dkh, although I haven't tested it if I'm honest. So if I bring it up to 9dkh, then I can have the same Alk as the aquavitro salinity and not worry about anything else. Plus, I've read a lot of articles stating higher Alk makes for faster coral skeleton and coralline growth. As far as I'm concerned, I want to keep stable levels, and have my corals thrive.

I've personally found the easiest and cheapest way to raise alkalinity is with sodium carbonate (dry soda ash). You can buy it anywhere pool supplies are sold, it should say 100% sodium carbonate on the bottle. It cost me around $7 for 1800 grams. For 30 gallons to go from 7 to 8 dKH you would add 2 grams of sodium carbonate. You should dissolve it in a cup of freshwater before adding it or if you have a sump just place it your overflow box and it will be dissolved by the time it makes it through the sump.

[Andreww]

ME Coral Alkalinity: RODI water, pharmaceutical grade sodium carbonate.

So maybe the reason I need to add so much more than other products is because it's already diluted in RODI?

[Reefer69]

I would do water changes until the levels are where you want. Then test daily to see if you need to dose.

 

I'm using ME Coral supplement snow and i love it. Mix super clean. Ive been purchasing the powder version and mixing myself. Also on another note try their amino acid.

 

12 gallons of water in 17 gallon tank

MG 1280

ALK 10

CA 425

 

I doe 3ml of ALk per day, 1ml of CA per day, and 1ml of MG every other day. Obviously will vary per system.

[Andreww]

My problem is, the ALK doesn't rise with water changes. It stays at 7. I got it up to 8 in the last couple of days. I'll get it to 9 and test from there on to see what my consumption looks like and dose accordingly.

[Renstar]

My problem is, the ALK doesn't rise with water changes. It stays at 7. I got it up to 8 in the last couple of days. I'll get it to 9 and test from there on to see what my consumption looks like and dose accordingly.

 

What salt are you using? Are you testing the fresh saltwater mixture prior to placing it in your tank? I found the easiest way to maintain alk once you get it to where you want it is by adding kalkwasser to my ATO.

[blasterman]

Commercial salt mixes are all over the place in terms of dKH, so lets all please stop using salt mixes as the 'gold standard' when it comes to parameters. Recently I've found instant ocean mixing with higher dKH than Reef Crystals even the though the later is supposed to have more calcium and bi-carbonate. In the past year I've had commercial mixes default from 8 dKH to 14.

 

The only parameter I trust commercial salt mixes to get right is sodium chloride, and that's because it's the one parameter we can easily test for.

 

Alk at a level of 7 dKH is, in my opinion, two low unless you have a tank of several hundred gallons. Alk gets consumed quickly in small tanks, especially young tanks or if they have lots of fast growing softies. So, the OP's suggestion of wanting to keep alk around ~9 is fine.

 

If you want to raise alk because your tank is consuming a lot of it doing water changes is a bit of a waste. I swear you guys just like mixing water or something. Go to the grocery store, get box of generic baking soda for 99 Cents, and use the various online calculators to put dKH right where you want it doing no more than .5 dKH in 24 hours. Pull some water out of the tank in a soda bottle, add the calculated amount of baking soda, shake it up until there's no chunks, and then add it into a place of strong flow. This isn't rocket science.

 

Liquid alkalinity suppliments in fancy plastic bottles are nothing bore than a few tablespoons of baking soda added to purified water. If you factor in a gallon distilled water costs about 99cents and a box of baking soda costs about 99 cents somebody is making pretty good money.

[AUSSIE NANO]

Hmmm. I say hmmm.

 

First off, 7KH is not too low, things cab be fine at that level.

 

Second, the best way to raise KH in a smaller tank would be to do water changes with a high KH salt IMO.

 

Alk and Calcium are married and boosting Alk without also raising Calcium will result in a calcium drop. Rather than think about this it's much easier to buy a complete 2 part system (one part is Alk, the other part is Calcium plus some trace elements) and dose equal parts as you try and raise one.

 

You also want to know your usage of Alk since it's typically critical to keep this steady.

 

Is this a new tank? Are you sure test kits are accurate? What kind of test kits are you using?

Best and cheapest way is large water changes and daily. Your alkalinity will be perfect. Don't even bother with additives. You can't beat the real thing. Biggest trap for young and old players is lack of water changing. Why? I have no idea. It's quick, easy and inexpensive! Cheers.

[markalot]

Best and cheapest way is large water changes and daily. Your alkalinity will be perfect. Don't even bother with additives. You can't beat the real thing. Biggest trap for young and old players is lack of water changing. Why? I have no idea. It's quick, easy and inexpensive! Cheers.

 

What if you don't live near the ocean?

[AUSSIE NANO]

 

What if you don't live near the ocean?

Use salt water mix (good quality,not the cheap nasty mixes) with R/O as I believe you do. That and of course perform the most important part of reef aquarium keeping. You know the one that it seems 99% of people on this forum so far are apparently completely allergic to. Regular water changes and lots of them. I don't get the allergy to this most essential part of marine aquaristics???? Are people so busy they can't spare a few minutes a day (if they own a true nano reef aquarium) to change out a few gallons?? Really? If that is their situation then the hobby is not for them. Most here seem to do 10% a week or something which is of course ridiculous. These are NOT goldfish tanks. 10% a day I'd sort of understand if they were busy but any day they had the spare time then a 50% change takes no time at all. Cheers!

[markalot]

Use salt water mix (good quality,not the cheap nasty mixes) with R/O as I believe you do. That and of course perform the most important part of reef aquarium keeping. You know the one that it seems 99% of people on this forum so far are apparently completely allergic to. Regular water changes and lots of them. I don't get the allergy to this most essential part of marine aquaristics???? Are people so busy they can't spare a few minutes a day (if they own a true nano reef aquarium) to change out a few gallons?? Really? If that is their situation then the hobby is not for them. Most here seem to do 10% a week or something which is of course ridiculous. These are NOT goldfish tanks. 10% a day I'd sort of understand if they were busy but any day they had the spare time then a 50% change takes no time at all. Cheers!

 

Nope, you're wrong and you seem a bit narrow minded. First off you need to define nano. PIco, under 5 gallons, maybe, a 20 gallon nano ... 20 gallons is more expensive to make than simple dosing.

 

Second, as I stated before, in order for SPS, acros especially, to tolerate extreme water changes the params have to match almost exactly. A well stocked SPS tank can lose well over 1KH a day without dosing so your 50% daily change with, say, 7KH water will jump tank KH by +.5 but still not be enough to make up for the loss. A 100% change will reset to 7KH but the 1KH sudden rise will shock the SPS.

 

Don't make the mistake of applying a single rule to multiple situations.

 

You want to keep a few softies in a tiny tank and change 50% of the water daily, go for it. Personally I don't have time to make, mix, test, and change daily, even on a smaller tank. The very idea is ludicrous, even on a 10 gallon tank.

[AUSSIE NANO]

 

Nope, you're wrong and you seem a bit narrow minded. First off you need to define nano. PIco, under 5 gallons, maybe, a 20 gallon nano ... 20 gallons is more expensive to make than simple dosing.

 

Second, as I stated before, in order for SPS, acros especially, to tolerate extreme water changes the params have to match almost exactly. A well stocked SPS tank can lose well over 1KH a day without dosing so your 50% daily change with, say, 7KH water will jump tank KH by +.5 but still not be enough to make up for the loss. A 100% change will reset to 7KH but the 1KH sudden rise will shock the SPS.

 

Don't make the mistake of applying a single rule to multiple situations.

 

You want to keep a few softies in a tiny tank and change 50% of the water daily, go for it. Personally I don't have time to make, mix, test, and change daily, even on a smaller tank. The very idea is ludicrous, even on a 10 gallon tank.

I define nano as 5 gallons or larger. Pico tanks people keep here are 1-2 gallons. The ones I've seen. There are no extreme water changes. It's just a water change. In 5 gallons I would not keep more than 3-4 acropora. Those will NOT drop the KH if 50% water change is done daily. I don't apply a single rule to multiple situations. You just did.

 

If the very idea of a 50% water change even on a 10 gallon tank is ludicrous I can now see why your tanks look as bad as they do. Simply appalling. I'm just going to eyeball a REDOX level of 250-275 mV. The "real" reef is 500 mV. I have measured my tiny 5 gallon at 450mV. I'm happy with that level.

 

Now if you don't have the time to make a bag of salt mix to do make 5 gallons of seawater? I haven't had to "make" seawater for a decade or more but from memory it wasn't more than 15 minutes. You must be a VERY busy person indeed. And the idea that a daily water change is "ludicrous" once again affirms my opinion of your abilities in this area. Your tanks look FILTHY which is ludicrous and cruel. Very few coral specimens. Just a grubby looking under maintained tank by anyone's standard. Well mine at least. If I were you mate? I'd give up real quick and go back to gold fish. They would do just fine under your regime. Cheers!

[gus6464]

I define nano as 5 gallons or larger. Pico tanks people keep here are 1-2 gallons. The ones I've seen. There are no extreme water changes. It's just a water change. In 5 gallons I would not keep more than 3-4 acropora. Those will NOT drop the KH if 50% water change is done daily. I don't apply a single rule to multiple situations. You just did.

 

If the very idea of a 50% water change even on a 10 gallon tank is ludicrous I can now see why your tanks look as bad as they do. Simply appalling. I'm just going to eyeball a REDOX level of 250-275 mV. The "real" reef is 500 mV. I have measured my tiny 5 gallon at 450mV. I'm happy with that level.

 

Now if you don't have the time to make a bag of salt mix to do make 5 gallons of seawater? I haven't had to "make" seawater for a decade or more but from memory it wasn't more than 15 minutes. You must be a VERY busy person indeed. And the idea that a daily water change is "ludicrous" once again affirms my opinion of your abilities in this area. Your tanks look FILTHY which is ludicrous and cruel. Very few coral specimens. Just a grubby looking under maintained tank by anyone's standard. Well mine at least. If I were you mate? I'd give up real quick and go back to gold fish. They would do just fine under your regime. Cheers!

 

So I guess you just joined this forum to see how fast you could get banned by spouting sheer stupidity?

[AUSSIE NANO]

 

So I guess you just joined this forum to see how fast you could get banned by spouting sheer stupidity?

What is sheer stupidity? And why would I get "banned"? Cheers!

[gus6464]

What is sheer stupidity? And why would I get "banned"? Cheers!

 

If you have to ask I have to ask why you don't know?

[Reefer69]

My problem is, the ALK doesn't rise with water changes. It stays at 7. I got it up to 8 in the last couple of days. I'll get it to 9 and test from there on to see what my consumption looks like and dose accordingly.

 

 

As people have mentioned do a larger water change. Try doing a 20 gallon change and see where it puts you. You have to remember that your alk will even out based on the volume of water when entering the tank. So if you only do a 5 gallon change with fresh salt water it may only raise your alk from 7 to 7.3. Do a 20 gallon change and you go to 8.2. Thats about the calculations I've observed from my tank, but everyones different.

 

Im sure someone can explain it better but hope that helps.

[Andreww]

AUSSIE NANO, are you some type of guy that has nothing else on their schedule but to mix water ?

I've got kids, I've got a business I have to run, and other countless activities on the side.

 

That's why I have a skimmer, refugium, and auto top off on my nano.To keep things going and going well until the next water change.

And by no means my tank is filthy. If anything, it looks pretty darn good.

You won't last too much around here with your arrogant attitude. Learn to respect others; Theres some crazy looking tanks (in a good way) on this forum and they don't do water changes every day....just saying . Being humble goes a long way...

 

 

As people have mentioned do a larger water change. Try doing a 20 gallon change and see where it puts you. You have to remember that your alk will even out based on the volume of water when entering the tank. So if you only do a 5 gallon change with fresh salt water it may only raise your alk from 7 to 7.3. Do a 20 gallon change and you go to 8.2. Thats about the calculations I've observed from my tank, but everyones different.

 

Im sure someone can explain it better but hope that helps.

Thanks for your insight; I'll try larger water changes and see what my Alk consumption is.