Help with Algae, confirmed Dinos

[Difrano]

HI all,

 

My tank is in very bad shape at this moment I have a algae issue that is out of control, Im doing weekly 5 gal water changes on my biocube 29, my parameters are 0,0, 10 nitrates, I dont have a phosphate kit. I dont have a skimmer but i have a media basket with chemipure. In the past month i started feeding just every other day,

 

The algae grows in minutes, i clean it and then grows again, it grows over everything including my GSP and Zoas, at some point it has a bubble and separates and float to the surface, i can suck it with a turkey baster or blow it off with it. It behaves like cyano but this is light brown I had cyano before and was purple..

 

here are some pics, I cleaned the tank in deep 2 days ago:

 

 

 

Surface look:

 

[Cencalfishguy56]

HI all,

 

My tank is in very bad shape at this moment I have a algae issue that is out of control, Im doing weekly 5 gal water changes on my biocube 29, my parameters are 0,0, 10 nitrates, I dont have a phosphate kit. I dont have a skimmer but i have a media basket with chemipure. In the past month i started feeding just every other day,

 

The algae grows in minutes, i clean it and then grows again, it grows over everything including my GSP and Zoas, at some point it has a bubble and separates and float to the surface, i can suck it with a turkey baster or blow it off with it. It behaves like cyano but this is light brown I had cyano before and was purple..

 

here are some pics, I cleaned the tank in deep 2 days ago:

 

 

 

Surface look:

 

dinoflagellates, a real pain in the ass but there are ways to overcome it, a member should chime in soon

[seabass]

Dinos are nasty and hard to get rid of. I wish that I could give you a foolproof way to get rid of them, but it's not always that easy. They might be fed by organics, nutrients, and/or ammonia in the water and substrate.

 

Manual removal is often part of the solution. Although people report that water changes can actually impede progress. A UV filter can be helpful, but might not be practical in an AIO. However, a protein skimmer might be both practical and helpful.

 

Blackouts will usually, temporarily work, and might be the straw that helps break it (if used in combination with other methods). Freshwater can kill it (not to be confused with fresh water). Treating with freshwater may or may not be practical. I've also read that dosing hydrogen peroxide will not kill it; while some believe it helps.

 

I'd probably quarantine your fish while you work on your tank. I might:

• remove as much as you can (using a toothbrush to brush it off of the rock and siphoning it all out)
• remove everything from the tank (put it in buckets of fresh saltwater)
• clean out the entire tank
• rinse the substrate in RO/DI water
• fill the tank with fresh saltwater
• dip the rock in RO/DI water before putting it back in the tank
• leave the lights out for 4 days
• check for ammonia before putting your fish back in

You could lose your coral; but if you don't beat it soon, you'll lose them anyway. Like I said, there is no bulletproof fix. Here are some threads discussing this issue (read through these before you start any treatment): http://www.nano-reef.com/index.php?app=googlecse#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=dinos

[GMay]

After all that seabass has suggested, I would add that Dino-X treatment following up is also a good option. It certainly will help control the return after cleaning.

[seabass]

Good add GMay; DINO X (previously Algae X) could be very effective depending on the particular species you are dealing with.

[Difrano]

Ouch... My worst nigthmare then... I stayed awake all night reading about it.... I will try the lights out + Peroxide it looks like the best shoot. I dont want to tear the tank down yet.

[Cencalfishguy56]

Ouch... My worst nigthmare then... I stayed awake all night reading about it.... I will try the lights out + Peroxide it looks like the best shoot. I dont want to tear the tank down yet.

yea don't give up hope, plenty of members on here have beat Dino's

[seabass]

Let us know whether it works or not. Share pics of the progress (success or failure). Documentation helps other reefers fight similar problems.

[brandon429]

fully accurate about full tank cleaning and attack mode. its true some got dinos to go away leaving manual export out, but we get more fixes doing opposite. remove all detritus (fuel) and all signs of the invader by hard work/clean tank good call

 

 

then apply action X in hopes of winning, take action only on a forced-clean tank. this is ideal for all invaders

 

make action X strictly a preventative using this technique...the old school way forces it to also become a remover and a preventative, requiring dual action from X and that's double work for any action taken

[ReefWeeds]

Difrano - check in with Sancho as well as Jedimasterben. Both have dealt with dinos multiple times.

[Difrano]

Ok Started my full attack on Dinos... 2 days now reduced the light to 4 hours a day, blues are still on 10 hour cycle, dosed 3 ml of Peroxide every night to the tank (I dindt a total blackout because my firefish oversleep if i dont turn the lights on) and added a complete bottle of pods to the tank, So far the infestation as receded a little, the rocks looks cleaner and also the sand. My Zoas opened again and a GSP colony that i gave for dead after 2 weeks close are opening again, and just realized that all my Xenias are gone.. , So if you have a Xenia infestation out of control just get some Dinos... , Ill post some pics tomorrow when the lights are back.

 

Also I bought today one bottle of Dino-X at the reef-a-palooza, I will change the peroxide to dino x tomorrow.

 

I believe i can win this without tearing the tank apart

[Tamberav]

I would just do a full lights out with thick blankets, pitch black and everything. Manually turn the light on to feed or QT the fish if you can't get the firefish to come out.

 

I beat it using multiple blackouts, blasting it off the rocks, and aggressively changing the filter floss/sock since it was catching the dying/blasted off stuff.

[Difrano]

Update:

 

Running lights 2 hours a day and royal blue 8, feeding every other day, no water changes, filter floss change every day, 3 ml or peroxide every night.

 

So far good Dinos have receded a lot and still not using the Dino X

 

Some updated pics:

 

 

 

 

 

[ReefWeeds]

Wow that looks a lot better, D!!

[msparklym13]

YESSS!! Looking great :-)

[Difrano]

This is a long long fight.... I had to travel and for some reason the lights program changed to a 8 h cycle.... When I came back everything was at starting point..... ... I will try the dino x this week

[seabass]

Fight it back again (get rid of as much as you can) prior to Algae X. You might even consider removing the sand bed (with care not to release a ton of nutrients/organics into the water). There are a couple of ways to do this if you want to proceed down this road.

[strummerfan]

Here is an interesting read on dealing with them.

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1620464

[Sancho]

UV sterilizer in conjunction with H2o2 dosing seemed to work for me. I am just getting over a second outbreak. Dont take this the wrong way. I dont see anything really worth keeping in you tank at this point. I would get a cheap QT tank for the fish. get rid of everything in the tank, soak it in vinegar and clean the entire tank and start with new dry rock and sand. As I have learned the hard way they tend to come back out of the blue. Better to do it now than down the road when you have $$$$ invested in corals. Not trying to be captain buzz kill I have just been down this road and it can be incredibly frustrating. If you dont want to start over you might want to consider a UV sterilizer. My tank is an AIO and it wasnt that difficult to get it working. However you proceed I wish you luck.

[seabass]

Here is an interesting read on dealing with them. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1620464

Summary: Initially, the OP thought that low levels of nitrate caused the dinos to recede. But it turned out that water changes were fueling the dinos. Stopping water changes (with the intent to raise the level of nitrate) deprived the bloom of the trace elements, vitamins, or whatever was in the freshly mixed saltwater that was perpetuating the bloom. So it was likely the stopping of water changes, and not anything to do with nitrate levels, that had an impact.

 

 

I have a theory about what might be in the freshly mixed saltwater that helps perpetuate dino blooms. Most, if not all, salt mixes contain some ammonia. It might be this ammonia source which helps fuel the bloom.

A silent contaminant of commercial salt is ammonia, arising from the use of magnesium chloride as a principal source of magnesium. Many sources of calcium chloride are likewise contaminated with ammonia. Consequently, most, if not all, brands of salt contain ammonia, usually enough to yield between 0.1 - 0.8mg/L in a freshly prepared batch of saltwater. In most instances, this may not be a problem because the ammonia is diluted by the existing tank water and the biological filter should clear it in short order. But, it is definitely not a promotional feature of any salt, and, for that reason, has remained a well kept secret.

I've quoted this PDF before. However, they have recently taken down it down. Too bad, because this was an informative paper (on this, and other topics relating to salt mixes).

[brandon429]

a basic gardeners method:

 

pre cleaning the tank before any evaluation or any action taken. Using a hard work factor first, to get upper hand on biomass, before you treat. It's not spraying for dandelions...it's bending over and hand pulling every one you see, then spraying yard to clench the dandelion deal one go.

 

I would remove these rocks, clean up under them, clean them off outside tank, put back in 100% clean tank then do the peroxide run you are doing.

 

We're all taking water action on full mass invasion tanks...self supporting masses, which to me is the opposite of decisive and without autocorrect iPad I'd misspell it.

 

 

 

 

 

Speaks nothing to preventatives...someone can hook up nine turf scrubbers or two denitrators and still comply with display tank disallowance and cheat cooking of non compliant surfaces.

 

 

Forcing a totally invaded tank totally clean via hours detailing if needed to makeup for having let it seat in and -then- applying dosers and anti algae runs is the best technique currently known for reversing algae ridden tanks

[Difrano]

After weeks look like i won the battle VS Dino! It was tought but my tank looks better than ever and in 1 week I have no come back of the dinos after going back to my normal 8h light cycle.

 

What I did, no water changes (almost 2 months now), Blackout 2 weeks without turning the lights on (I didnt cover the tank so it was getting some daylight), plus 5 ml of DinoX every other day, Crapper trapper filter replacement every day its amazing how the die off clogs the filter, then As a suggestion from my LFS i added some microbacter to outcompete the dinos and started a 1h whites 4h blues for 1 week keeping the dinox, at this point there was almost no trace of dynos. Last Monday 06/13 started back to my normal light cycle still dosing dinox.

 

You can see here:

 

 

Im so happy tank looks great the GSP that i tought was dead came back in just 1 week, and the hammer and zoas are starting to poen again!

[ReefWeeds]

Yay!!!!!!!! Glad to read this, D!!!

[msparklym13]

Whooot!! Great job!! So happy to hear it went well :-)

[Hammerstone]

Congrats!! You're proof things can turn around!!???