R_MC Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Hi all, I know that we're anti-optics here, but I am obsessed with mounting lights high up over the tank. For most LEDs there is a prescribed optic that allows you to pick whatever beam angle and distribution that you want, but for the NanoBox obviously nothing like that exists (OI). Here is how I plan on building the LED/T5 fixture: it will be mounted just over 2 feet above the water so that I can stick my head under it and nose around whenever the mood strikes. The tank is 24x36 and the entire light fixture will be ~24 inches end to end. The ideal solution for me would be a high efficiency diffuser disc and narrow beam specular reflector. This would allow for the best light distribution. Options for Diffuser + Reflector: 1) http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/FHIAAOxyDLZSCoUa/s-l1600.jpg Something like this. The downside is price (~$20 for these units) and the real estate it commands. I'd rather keep the reflector to 4" diameter. 2) http://www.crompton.com.au/crompton/product-assets/downlights/dlv92-downlights/dlv92sch_26802_72.jpgThis also looks good to me (just the reflector), but I wonder what the resulting projection would look like 3) http://www.mayfair.net.in/prd/recess-mounting-down-light-fixture.jpgReally most "CFL" downlights look like the right size / angle for the reflector so long as a diffuser is somehow implemented (even if the diffuser is effectively painting a white ring near the LED array Options for reflector only: 1) Cree LMH2 reflectors: http://media.digikey.com/photos/Cree%20Photos/LMH020-REFL-0000-0000062.jpg They're cheap and compact, with an appropriate opening for the LED, which is great - but unfortunately the beam angle seems like it would be too wide for my application. (my mock-up is based on this reflector) 2) Most other recessed LED downlights fall into a similar camp as the CREE LMH2 in that the beam spread would be too wide - http://industriallightingfixtures.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/LED-Commercial-Downlight-Retrofit-Kit-4-inch1-762x1024.pnghere is an example of one which may work, however it would be challenging to get just the reflector / heatsink. The obvious pro here is that there are integrated heatsink options that would make the end product look much more slick. 3) http://cdn3.volusion.com/qmbvt.ehbrq/v/vspfiles/photos/7R-2.jpg?1354201607There are also many 7" reflector options designed for camera lighting. These look fantastic, except they would diffuse the light more than direct it to one spot. Many come with honeycomb beam shapers but I feel like the hit to efficiency would be too great. Thoughts? Ideas? I'm running myself dry. Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 If anyone has a source for http://industriallightingfixtures.org/LED-4-inch-Commercial-Downlight-Retrofit-Kit.pdfreflectors and heatsinks only, that looks perfect. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Ever thought about using large reflectors intended for large CoB arrays? Ledil has a number of different reflectors of varying angles. The ones for the Cree CXA3590 should be big enough to cover the NBR array with angles from 27-90 degrees. Luxeon CoB 1216 reflectors should work too. Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 Thanks! CREE Optic reference - Page 27 / 28 lists reflector options http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/XLamp-Application-Notes/CXA_design_guide.pdf My question with the smaller reflectors (like those designed for these COB arrays) would be how exaggerated disco would be for LEDs located near the outside of the array. I understand that this would be an issue for any reflector, but with the smaller reflector i wonder if the effect would be exaggerated because of the proximity of the outer LED to the reflective surface. A larger reflector like the 4-6" options would provide more of a shotgun approach, albeit with a less focused beam. Edit: I didn't realize that some of these reflectors were >100mm! Thanks again! http://www.ledil.com/products/?ds=1&fr=&mn=2&ld=336&fm=&md=&xd=&mh=&xh=&mt=&mf=&xf=&sf=&ty=&sm=&cn=&vc=&sfa=1&io=&tro=&trt=0&tpo=&tpt=0&tr=&tp=&st=&pg=&lo=&ol=&of=&od=&oh= Edit Edit - these look great: http://www.ledil.com/node/2/p/13471?ds=1&mn=2&ld=336&md=0&xd=0&mh=0&xh=0&mt=0&mf=0&xf=0&sf=0&fm=0&ty=0&sm=0&cn=0&vc=0&io=0&tro=0&tpo=0&tr=n0&tp=n0&trt=0&tpt=0&fr=n0&st=0&pg=0&lo=n0&ol=0&of=0&od=0&oh=0 http://www.ledil.com/node/2/p/15171?ds=1&mn=2&ld=336&md=0&xd=0&mh=0&xh=0&mt=0&mf=0&xf=0&sf=0&fm=0&ty=0&sm=0&cn=0&vc=0&io=0&tro=0&tpo=0&tr=n0&tp=n0&trt=0&tpt=0&fr=n0&st=0&pg=0&lo=n0&ol=0&of=0&od=0&oh=0 http://www.ledil.com/node/2/p/15177?ds=1&mn=2&ld=336&md=0&xd=0&mh=0&xh=0&mt=0&mf=0&xf=0&sf=0&fm=0&ty=0&sm=0&cn=0&vc=0&io=0&tro=0&tpo=0&tr=n0&tp=n0&trt=0&tpt=0&fr=n0&st=0&pg=0&lo=n0&ol=0&of=0&od=0&oh=0 (Especially curious about this last option) And the largest reflector that LEDIL sells: http://www.ledil.com/node/2/p/8155?ds=1&mn=0&ld=0&md=119&xd=0&mh=80&xh=0&mt=0&mf=17&xf=22&sf=0&fm=0&ty=0&sm=0&cn=0&vc=0&io=0&tro=0&tpo=0&tr=n0&tp=n0&trt=0&tpt=0&fr=n0&st=0&pg=0&lo=n0&ol=0&of=0&od=0&oh=0 And a search giving 66 results for narrow beam reflectors greater than 118mm diameter and 70mm height: http://www.ledil.com/products/?ds=1&fr=&mn=&ld=&fm=&md=119&xd=&mh=70&xh=&mt=&mf=17&xf=22&sf=&ty=&sm=&cn=&vc=&io=&tro=&trt=0&tpo=&tpt=0&tr=&tp=&st=0&pg=0&lo=n0&ol=0&of=0&od=0&oh=0 Link to comment
evilc66 Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 I think if you stick with the reflectors that have the optional diffusing lens, you shouldn't have that much issue with disco. The nice thing about the Ledil reflectors is that they are fairly readily available through major electronics distributors, and not horribly expensive. That at least gives you the ability to try a few options out without breaking the bank. I've used a number of their reflectors in the past and have always been impressed with them. Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 Thanks Evil - have you ever used http://www.luminitco.com/light shaping diffusers? Thinking about giving them a ring. http://www.luminitco.com/sites/default/files/AppNote2_Homog_6_4_12_lo.pdfspecifically made me think about how we might use this to reduce hot-spotting / disco without significant loss in efficiency. And when you say: "reflectors with optional diffusers ' you mean like http://www.ledil.com/node/2/p/15177?ds=1&mn=2&ld=336&md=0&xd=0&mh=0&xh=0&mt=0&mf=0&xf=0&sf=0&fm=0&ty=0&sm=0&cn=0&vc=0&io=0&tro=0&tpo=0&tr=n0&tp=n0&trt=0&tpt=0&fr=n0&st=0&pg=0&lo=n0&ol=0&of=0&od=0&oh=0 ? Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 The Vero 29 reflectors look like an even better option - the LED has a larger diameter and the plastic mounting plates will even fit right over the nanobox. Got that info here: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/229/LEDIL_color_mixing_reflectors-268719.pdf To follow up, my current plan for reflectors (thanks to evil) is: -F13380_ANGELA-M reflector (Narrow flood / medium spot) -F13671_ANGE-RZ-LENS (for color mixing - mounts at the small opening of the reflector just above the LED) -C13584_CLAMP-VERO29 (vero 29 mount - just to make my life easier - will need a little modding) I ended up purchasing from Arrow - all of the above came to ~100 shipped for 8x (2 extra of each in case I goof it up) Link to comment
evilc66 Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Thanks Evil - have you ever used http://www.luminitco.com/light shaping diffusers? Thinking about giving them a ring. http://www.luminitco.com/sites/default/files/AppNote2_Homog_6_4_12_lo.pdfspecifically made me think about how we might use this to reduce hot-spotting / disco without significant loss in efficiency. And when you say: "reflectors with optional diffusers ' you mean like http://www.ledil.com/node/2/p/15177?ds=1&mn=2&ld=336&md=0&xd=0&mh=0&xh=0&mt=0&mf=0&xf=0&sf=0&fm=0&ty=0&sm=0&cn=0&vc=0&io=0&tro=0&tpo=0&tr=n0&tp=n0&trt=0&tpt=0&fr=n0&st=0&pg=0&lo=n0&ol=0&of=0&od=0&oh=0 ? Yes, that is what I meant The Vero 29 reflectors look like an even better option - the LED has a larger diameter and the plastic mounting plates will even fit right over the nanobox. Got that info here: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/229/LEDIL_color_mixing_reflectors-268719.pdf Yeah, same ANGELA/ANGELINA reflectors that I was inferring to earlier. The RZ mixing lens could be fun to play with. I swear, Ledil makes an optic for almost everything and every application. Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 This would get mighty expensive ($300 vs ~$120 budgeted for boring heatsinks), but I would love to use these as the heatsink with fins reaching around the reflector in a semi-halo. I'd like to go fanless if I can, and most of the standard LED heatsinks leave a little to be desired in the style department. Looking into VGA coolers, there are a good number of options. If I have to go with a fan I will likely scour ebay for Zalman CNPS7000V-Al as they're silent, the fan is relatively hidden, and the shape when combined with the reflector will create an hourglass type figure. Of course this generic VGA cooler shows up everywhere for as low as $3... should handle 25w easy... Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 Ok - seems that I can get a good deal on these ($10 per): They are rated for video cards that idle at 39w and load at 200W and should be able to passively cool the LED's no problem. I hope that with these wings on I can crank the blues and whites to 1A Thoughts? Edit: Silence your thoughts - I just went ahead and bought them. Here's a cheers to chrome. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Lol. I'm sure any of those will work fine Link to comment
Halo_003 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Ok - seems that I can get a good deal on these ($10 per): They are rated for video cards that idle at 39w and load at 200W and should be able to passively cool the LED's no problem. I hope that with these wings on I can crank the blues and whites to 1A Thoughts? Edit: Silence your thoughts - I just went ahead and bought them. Here's a cheers to chrome. Phase update when you finish, I have a couple of those sitting around unused. Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 I'm debating how the nanobox engines (heatsink/led array/wire harness/reflector) will be attached to the main light body. For the best aesthetic I would incorporate the wiring and mount into a solid steel frame. However, to improve control over light positioning I would want to have some sort of ball/socket assembly. I could potentially use something like this webcam mount, but I worry about the end look. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 You can get goosenecks from the likes of McMaster Carr in varying sizes depending on the weight capacity and overall length you need. Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 Must be me, but I don't dig the goose-neck look. Too alien tentacle. "Sl Ratchet Rail Mount 1" - 1.5" Swivel Type" looks nicer... but costs $79 per. http://www.sears.com/shakespeare-4188-sl-ratchet-rail-mount-1inch/p-SPM6667421203?prdNo=17&blockNo=17&blockType=G17 Found a bunch by searching "Swivel camera mount" may be simpler and could be mounted directly to a steel tube for a cleaner look. ($5) Alternatively, I could mount a "universal hot shoe" to the steel rail and attach a ball socket with a hot shoe base plate: more components, but could make for a more modular assembly. Link to comment
Benny314 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 This thing is going to be seriously cool. Can't wait to see the finished article. Do you think you'll still have shadowing issues as the T5's are in the middle and not on the edges? Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Hi benny - As the fixture will be mounted high up I will still have some shadows, but this is a look I like as it adds contrast and depth to to the aquarium. I hope that the 4.5 inch LED reflectors will help spread the light out. What I hope to avoid is color shadowing and I believe that the diffusers/reflectors will go a long way towards that end. Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Found Sketchup models here for the thermalright H-03, so I'll be refactoring the design soon: http://scc.jezmckean.com/search/Thermalright Technical Drawing: Additionally, I've ordered one Nanobox V3 array to play around with. Because of the dimensions of the Gap (15mm) I may use 15mm tubing to build a frame that will support the LED's and also hide the wire. I'd use something like a T fitting fixed to the top of each heatsink (in the gap between the base plate and fins). and 15mm tubing run between each unit. This would keep it modular (could always increase or decrease the number of LED's / distance between them and would also make it easy to run the wiring completely hidden. This wouldn't allow the LEDs to be articulated as they would with the hot shoe mount, but I think it would result in a much cleaner look. I like these flush connectors a lot: https://www.s3i.co.uk/square-flush-angle-connectors.phpbut have only found them in larger sizes like 40mm. 15mm is pretty small... Lots of great options/idea material here: http://www.directindustry.com/prod/item-industrietechnik-gmbh/product-13749-1553407.html?utm_source=ProductDetail&utm_medium=Web&utm_content=SimilarProduct&utm_campaign=CA More connectors and idea material here: https://www.berger-tools.co.uk/Tube_Clamp_Connectors_Clamp_Mountings__Linear_Actuators/ Link to comment
Benny314 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Think this would be an option. http://www.berger-tools.co.uk/pdfs/flipping_book/Standard_Parts_Catalogue_15.0/#1015/z The base of this hinge would easily screw to your T5 canopy giving you the ability to point the arrays straight down or tilt them towards the middle or outside of the tank. Then with a barrel fixed to the heat sink that would give you the ability to twist the arrays you'd cover full range of motion and if you used something like this, http://www.berger-tools.co.uk/pdfs/flipping_book/Standard_Parts_Catalogue_15.0/#982/z to clamp the barrel. You could then have a selection of barrel lengths or an overly long barrel that just slides through into the space under the fins to adjust the distance the arrays are from the center of the tank. Link to comment
masterbuilder Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 This is going to be interesting! Link to comment
aviator300 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 OOOOPSSS. Sorry guys, wrong forum. Thought I was on Nano Reef, Sorry Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 I like that benny, way cleaner than the tripod head. I wonder if they have smaller components - the ones linked may be too big for the heatsink (footprint looks like 50mmx35mm) Link to comment
R_MC Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 Smaller parts similar to those above are here: https://www.cgsautomation.net/EOAT-Mounting-Clamp/EOAT-Cross-Clamps More "swivel clamp connectors" https://www.ganter-griff.com/en/products/2.8-Tube-clamp-connectors-Clamp-mountings-Linear-actuators/GN-281-Swivel-clamp-connector-joints-Aluminium Stop motion armature components could work as well: http://www.animationsupplies.net/armatures.html?limit=all&mode=list&p=2 Looks like robotics may be a good search term. has some potential if I used round tubing for part of the frame. I could have a vertical T at each light location to mount the clamp, and the flat portion could be fixed to the top of the heatsink base. Another similar part: https://www.cgsautomation.net/image/data/CGS/Mounting%20Clamps/Swivel%20Angle%20CLamps/SwivelAngleClapms.jpg a alternative to the webcam mount - ball joint mic adapter. http://www.anvilintl.com/products/seismic-sway-bracing-and-triflexloop-for-fire-protection/restraints/777-figure-swivel-joint-connector---rod-tap. Like the above but even more basic. A cm01 camera adapter with a nice flat plate which may work even better: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CameraAdapt Link to comment
mcblablabla Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Hi R_MC, I had also some thoughts on heatsinks. Can see them on: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/362045-diy-led-with-multiple-v3-arrays/#entry5046835 You can also google for "pin fin heatsink" or "cold forged heatsink" to get some interesting inspirations... Have fun Gerd Link to comment
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