Need Help - Ammonia in Newly Mixed Saltwater >6ppm!

[CronicReefer]

So like the title says, my newly mixed batches of saltwater are testing positive for ammonia after 24 hours and after 48hours it is over 2ppm and continues to increase. I use a Spectrapure RO/DI 5-Stage Maxcap, my city water does not contain chloramines either, freshly made RO/DI tests 0 for ammonia. I clean the powerhead and mixing container every time before use with rubbing alcohol and fresh water.

 

The only ammonia source in my house that I can think of is my cat but I don't see how any ammonia that may be getting into the air from his litterbox is going to raise the amount of ammonia in my water by that significant of an amount. I know plenty of people here keep cats, so that is another reason I don't think it is the issue but I'm not 100% certain either. I also smoke as well and I know smoke can contain ammonia in it as well but I always open a window every night during the summer for about 10-12 hours and a window is open all day during the winter. I also have an air purifier with a 235 CADR rating for smoke in the same room as the tank.

 

On a side note, about 10 days ago my nitrates in my main tank went from <5ppm to over 50ppm seemingly overnight. My stocking is not very heavy either, 2x Clownfish, 1xStarry Blenny, 1x McCosker Wrasse, 1xPurple Lobster. The fish are fed 1-2grams of LRS Frenzy per day (sometimes twice a day), and the lobster is fed about 3grams of LRS Frenzy every 3 days. I have been feeding this way since the tank was established and it has never caused a nitrate spike. Even when I had two fish die at the beginning of February from unkown causes (I think they injured each other in a fight but just my thought) I saw no change in nitrates or even an ammonia spike. I had made the water to do a water change and decided to test for ammonia when I discovered those readings. I'm feeling my nitrates may have spiked as two weeks ago I had done a 25% water change and I'm feeling if I did it with water that was in excess of 2ppm ammonia it would be the root source of the nitrate spike.

[brandon429]

How do we know any of the tests are accurate

 

API? Just eliminating variables

[seabass]

A silent contaminant of commercial salt is ammonia, arising from the use of magnesium chloride as a principal source of magnesium. Many sources of calcium chloride are likewise contaminated with ammonia. Consequently, most, if not all, brands of salt contain ammonia, usually enough to yield between 0.1 - 0.8mg/L in a freshly prepared batch of saltwater. In most instances, this may not be a problem because the ammonia is diluted by the existing tank water and the biological filter should clear it in short order. But, it is definitely not a promotional feature of any salt, and, for that reason, has remained a well kept secret.

Source: http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Salt_Mixes.pdf

[CronicReefer]

How do we know any of the tests are accurate

API? Just eliminating variables

It is API but my tank will test 0ppm every time and the new saltwater I made will turn dark green so I'm pretty confident its not a bad test.

Source: http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Salt_Mixes.pdf

I've heard of this as well but the salt I use is NeoMarine and they claim the salt will produce no traceable amounts of ammonia, phosphate, or nitrate like other brands may contain. Also it doesn't explain why it continues to increase the longer the water mixes which is what I couldn't understand either.

[CronicReefer]

Here is what the results of the test looks like. Tank water on left = 0ppm, newly mixed saltwater on right = 6ppm now after 4 days of mixing.

[seabass]

Bad batch of salt? Why are you mixing your salt for four days? While I wouldn't think this should increase ammonia levels, I usually only mix until it's dissolved. You could try a gallon of distilled water to rule out your RO/DI water, but I don't suspect that either.

[CronicReefer]

Bad batch of salt? Why are you mixing your salt for four days? While I wouldn't thing this should increase ammonia levels, I usually only mix until it's dissolved. You could try a gallon of distilled water to rule out your RO/DI water, but I don't suspect that either.

I've just been mixing to see if it would keep increasing or not but I'm going to throw it out today. Usually I just mix my salt for 24 hours like the instructions state but when I noticed the ammonia I wanted to see what would happen after more than 24 hours. I think I'm going to mix up two batches, one inside and one outside, and then see what the results of that is. If the one outside stays at 0ppm then I'll know it's something inside my house causing ammonia to creep into the water which I will have to figure out how to solve.

[seabass]

I'd also use distilled water in one batch. You could also pick up a small box of anther brand of salt and test that. I agree, this sounds very abnormal. Good luck figuring this out, and let us know what you discover.

[CronicReefer]

I'd also use distilled water in one batch. You could also pick up a small box of anther brand of salt and test that. I agree, this sounds very abnormal. Good luck figuring this out, and let us know what you discover.

I'll make a third with distilled water that I'll leave outside as a control. That way if the distilled water tests positive and its outside I will know its my salt however if only the one with RO/DI outside tests positive its my water filters. And if only the one inside tests positive I will know it is somehow coming from the air inside. I will also be using some leftover buckets my salt comes in as I usually mix my water in a 15 gallon tub and maybe there is something in the plastic leaching into the water.

[CronicReefer]

I'd also use distilled water in one batch. You could also pick up a small box of anther brand of salt and test that. I agree, this sounds very abnormal. Good luck figuring this out, and let us know what you discover.

How do we know any of the tests are accurate

API? Just eliminating variables

Okay so I'm really freaking out about these results because I'm worrying if this is affecting my tank too. Water from outside on left water from inside on right. This is from mixing 1 gallon of water to 1/2 cup of salt. I mixed both batches in old salt buckets after cleaning both out with water and rubbing alcohol. I did not use anything to mix either I just sloshed the water around till it dissolved. This was done this morning around 8Am and test results are from just now at 8pm. I've never even heard of this issue before.

 

It's like 8ppm green!!

[brandon429]

Hey you have quite the ammonia challenge I'm glad to see it in good detail like you've posted. Even low-level ammonia is highly toxic it will show

Can you post a full tank shot

[seabass]

Weird, try switching the buckets (outside now inside, and inside now outside). I can't imagine that anything indoors is adding ammonia to the water.

[MLS_Reef]

Weird, try switching the buckets (outside now inside, and inside now outside). I can't imagine that anything indoors is adding ammonia to the water.

Maybe new buckets?

If your buckets are scratched on the inside bacteria can grow on the surface. 4 days you may be leacing dead bacteria off the buckets and starting a cycle?

All i can think of is You are dissolving or rinsing a biofilm into your new water...

[CronicReefer]

Hey you have quite the ammonia challenge I'm glad to see it in good detail like you've posted. Even low-level ammonia is highly toxic it will showCan you post a full tank shot

Weird, try switching the buckets (outside now inside, and inside now outside). I can't imagine that anything indoors is adding ammonia to the water.

Maybe new buckets?

If your buckets are scratched on the inside bacteria can grow on the surface. 4 days you may be leacing dead bacteria off the buckets and starting a cycle?

All i can think of is You are dissolving or rinsing a biofilm into your new water...

I think this forum thread answers my problem.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1942413

 

I'm going to try moving the litter box to my laundry room and I opened two windows to try and replace all the air in the house with outside air. I'm just confused cause there is zero ammonia odor in my house so this is all I can think of as being the problem. I think this may also be the reason for my elevated nitrates although I'm confused why it became a problem this month...

[brandon429]

As you can see, not everyone agrees with boomer but i sure like his forceful writing style

I was skeptical for one reason, consistency in testing across homes...not just boomers seemingly shut the door case but why not more homes ? You had mentioned the problem came on recently, but cat box was there just after cycling and didn't overwhelm

 

They were concerned about disagreeing and mods stepping in aw...follow those rc fine lines or get the stick heh

 

With his stated proofs, it should be impossible to own cats and not have constant low levels. Any neglected cat boxes and it would be high levels, but he's saying there's always some and then we had people keeping cats that said it never occurred. Perhaps they had better venting agreed

 

I'll remain skeptical but open to consideration of new proofs as the reporting has always had at least a few active threads each year

 

If ammonia transfer is that dangerous the minority of cat keepers could keep a reef tank without probs but it's the minority with probs. One poster in that thread mentioned using prime...a known skew for API tests there's always little clues mixed in the certainty

[CronicReefer]

As you can see, not everyone agrees with boomer but i sure like his forceful writing style

I was skeptical for one reason, consistency in testing across homes...not just boomers seemingly shut the door case but why not more homes ? You had mentioned the problem came on recently, but cat box was there just after cycling and didn't overwhelm

They were concerned about disagreeing and mods stepping in aw...follow those rc fine lines or get the stick heh

With his stated proofs, it should be impossible to own cats and not have constant low levels. Any neglected cat boxes and it would be high levels, but he's saying there's always some and then we had people keeping cats that said it never occurred. Perhaps they had better venting agreed

I'll remain skeptical but open to consideration of new proofs

If ammonia transfer is that dangerous the minority of cat keepers could keep a reef tank without probs but it's the minority with probs. One poster in that thread mentioned using prime...a known skew for API tests there's always little clues mixed in the certainty

Yes I agree the amount of consistency between cat owners is lacking. All I can say is I think it coincides with me closing my windows during the day and running the AC with much more frequency. So let's say there is ammonia in the air and maybe my nose is not so sensitive since I live with a cat. If the AC is creating a positive pressure it will cause a much faster equilibrium between the water and the air than it would with a window open all day like it was during the winter. I know that ammonia transfer between water and air is much easier than other gasses. Of course this is all speculation but I really have no other explanation.

[seabass]

Wow, the impact is impressive. Imagine using RODI water stored in this area. After a few days, it would have dangerous amounts of ammonia. The biofilter of your established reef tank would be built up, but nitrate levels might be hard to manage. Even cycling a new tank might be difficult if ammonia levels were allowed to rise too high.

[CronicReefer]

Wow, the impact is impressive. Imagine using RODI water stored in this area. After a few days, it would have dangerous amounts of ammonia. The biofilter of your established reef tank would be built up, but nitrate levels might be hard to manage. Even cycling a new tank might be difficult if ammonia levels were allowed to rise too high.

Yeah I'm really hoping I can get the air in the house cleared. My nitrates just mysteriously went off the scales and has caused all my new SPS to STN after they were doing so well for the first month . I need to do a water change but can't :/. I know my tank should have no problem clearing nitrates but if ammonia is constantly being added it's no wonder they aren't coming down.

[seabass]

I know my tank should have no problem clearing nitrates but if ammonia is constantly being added it's no wonder they aren't coming down.

I would say that most nano reefs don't complete the nitrogen cycle and leave nitrate as a byproduct. There are other ways to lower nitrate, but many reefers end up relying on water changes to dilute nitrate into desired ranges.

[MLS_Reef]

Has anybody explained how floridians with tile floors clean their whole house with ammonia solution and dont have this problem?

[HarryPotter]

Has anybody explained how floridians with tile floors clean their whole house with ammonia solution and dont have this problem?

I clean my tank glass with windex (has ammonia).

 

Better bio-filtration?

[CronicReefer]

I would say that most nano reefs don't complete the nitrogen cycle and leave nitrate as a byproduct. There are other ways to lower nitrate, but many reefers end up relying on water changes to dilute nitrate into desired ranges.

 

I think mine has the capacity to complete the cycle. I had only done one water change at the beginning of February since the cycle had completed and nitrates had remained consistently below 5ppm. It honestly wasn't till after I did my water change this month that I started having nitrate issues. I noticed some turf algae popping up after the water change and just figured it was the usual ugly phase for a new tank until I tested my nitrates and discovered they were in excess of 50. It has slowed tremendously since then and seems to be lessening despite my nitrates being around 50ppm (the color appears to becoming a lighter purple as the days go by).

 

Has anybody explained how floridians with tile floors clean their whole house with ammonia solution and dont have this problem?

 

I clean my tank glass with windex (has ammonia).

 

Better bio-filtration?

 

There has to be some secondary factor that is causing the ammonia to be pushed into the water from the air. I'm not really understanding where it is coming from either. My only theory is the positive pressure being produced from running my A/C with the windows closed and the litterbox being the in the same room.

[ReefWeeds]

 

I think mine has the capacity to complete the cycle. I had only done one water change at the beginning of February since the cycle had completed and nitrates had remained consistently below 5ppm. It honestly wasn't till after I did my water change this month that I started having nitrate issues. I noticed some turf algae popping up after the water change and just figured it was the usual ugly phase for a new tank until I tested my nitrates and discovered they were in excess of 50. It has slowed tremendously since then and seems to be lessening despite my nitrates being around 50ppm (the color appears to becoming a lighter purple as the days go by).

 

 

 

There has to be some secondary factor that is causing the ammonia to be pushed into the water from the air. I'm not really understanding where it is coming from either. My only theory is the positive pressure being produced from running my A/C with the windows closed and the litterbox being the in the same room.

 

I was reading a thread recently where it indicated that RODI is basically a magnet for stuff in the air - so do you think it is sucking in the ammonia because of the deionization process?

[seabass]

I noticed some turf algae popping up after the water change and just figured it was the usual ugly phase for a new tank until I tested my nitrates and discovered they were in excess of 50.

If you haven't already, check the phosphate level with a low range kit. Phosphate is typically high prior to algae blooms.

 

I was reading a thread recently where it indicated that RODI is basically a magnet for stuff in the air - so do you think it is sucking in the ammonia because of the deionization process?

Good thought. However, this was also happening with freshly mixed saltwater.

[CronicReefer]

If you haven't already, check the phosphate level with a low range kit. Phosphate is typically high prior to algae blooms.

Highest I ever recorded it was 0.03 on Feb 19 with only 20grams of GFO. Have been running 40 grams of GFO and always register 0 on Hannah low-range. I personally always try to have 0ppm on the Hannah.