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Should I put in another fish or two?


nidding

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Hey.

I have a 29 gallon drop off tank, stocked with 2 clowns, a tail spot blenny, a pygmy angel and a six line wrasse. As such I would already consider myself overstocked.

However, I struggle with low nutrients, and can't really keep nitrate above 0 even though I feed both flakes, phyto and Reefpearls daily. I have a reasonably sized skimmer and a rather large fuge with cheato and caulerpa. I'd rather not remove any of these filters, as both perform other functions than nutrient export.

I'm thinking that I might benefit from another fish or even two?

 

One major concern is the six line wrasse. Until now it hasn't bothered anything, but I fear that adding more fish might trigger its territorial instinct, which could mean a quick end to any newly added fish.

 

What are your thoughts? Would you add more fish? And which one(s)?

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How are your coral growing? If you're getting good growth and healthy coral, I wouldn't change anything. You could also reduce the photoperiod on the refugium to reduce the nutrient uptake. Adding more fish would definitely be a last resort considering the current stocking.

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There is no such thing as "overstocked" imo as it relates to simply "X number of fish per Y gallons or Z dimensions"

 

There are only the following conditions which must be avoided:

 

1) Fish too large for available swimming room.

 

2) Tank cohabitants too aggressive for available territory

 

3) Fish bioload too great for filtration capacity.

 

I like trying to keep it simple.

 

If you (or anyone) can add more fish and still answer "No" to having any of those 3 conditions, then I think it's a good idea!

 

There are several GREAT tanks on this forum (Bunster's TOTM is a great example) that I would be inclined to consider highly overstocked except they appear (or claim) to have none of those problems listed above. In that case, why not stock to that high a level. It's certainly a pleasant viewing experience.

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How are your coral growing? If you're getting good growth and healthy coral, I wouldn't change anything. You could also reduce the photoperiod on the refugium to reduce the nutrient uptake. Adding more fish would definitely be a last resort considering the current stocking.

Hey. That would obviously have been a good thing to mention from the start as well ;)

Most corals are pretty pale and are growing slowly. All except for a monti cap and a birdsnest which are both rather forgiving. All other SPS has gradually lost color and slowed down growth while nutrients has declined.

What test kit are you using? How sure are you that nitrates are zero? I know a lot of people that would love to have your "problem."

Using salifert. As mentioned in the above post, my corals have faded while I have seen a decline in NO3, so I'm rather confident that I'm not seeing a measuring error here :)

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There is no such thing as "overstocked" imo as it relates to simply "X number of fish per Y gallons or Z dimensions"

 

There are only the following conditions which must be avoided:

 

1) Fish too large for available swimming room.

 

2) Tank cohabitants too aggressive for available territory

 

3) Fish bioload too great for filtration capacity.

 

I like trying to keep it simple.

 

If you (or anyone) can add more fish and still answer "No" to having any of those 3 conditions, then I think it's a good idea!

 

There are several GREAT tanks on this forum (Bunster's TOTM is a great example) that I would be inclined to consider highly overstocked except they appear (or claim) to have none of those problems listed above. In that case, why not stock to that high a level. It's certainly a pleasant viewing experience.

When I say overstocked in this case, I'm referring to #2 of your list. #1 I would avoid at all times, which is why you don't see a naso in my nano ;) And obviously #3 is not reached at this moment in my tank, since I seemingly don't have enough bioload to keep up with nutrient export. So my concern is if

 

1) Would I trigger aggression due to too many temperamental fish on too little space?

2) Would a larger bioload be the way to go in terms of reaching an equilibrium in nutrient import/export?

 

And then as a bonus question. Do you have any good ideas for a fish that could fit into the existing stocking of the tank? :)

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how about a candy cane hogfish?

Hmm. I don't think I've ever seen a hogfish at any of my lfs's.

Also, would it be able to stick up for itself? They seem very docile.

I was thinking maybe a hawkfish?

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When I say overstocked in this case, I'm referring to #2 of your list. #1 I would avoid at all times, which is why you don't see a naso in my nano ;) And obviously #3 is not reached at this moment in my tank, since I seemingly don't have enough bioload to keep up with nutrient export. So my concern is if

 

1) Would I trigger aggression due to too many temperamental fish on too little space?

2) Would a larger bioload be the way to go in terms of reaching an equilibrium in nutrient import/export?

 

And then as a bonus question. Do you have any good ideas for a fish that could fit into the existing stocking of the tank? :)

 

I was suggesting based on #2 as well.

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How big is the sixline? if it's still small you might be able to get away with anything that's not in direct competition with him (like another wrasse or fish with similar personality).

Are there any fish you're interested in that would help us think of suggestions? Maybe a fish that perches like gobies or hawkfish?

You could also try to pair up some of your current fish, and get another pygmy angel or sixline. For either of these, depending on your current fish's size, you would just try to find the smallest fish to introduce as possible, as they start as female. Not sure on the blennies.

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How big is the sixline? if it's still small you might be able to get away with anything that's not in direct competition with him (like another wrasse or fish with similar personality).

 

Are there any fish you're interested in that would help us think of suggestions? Maybe a fish that perches like gobies or hawkfish?

 

You could also try to pair up some of your current fish, and get another pygmy angel or sixline. For either of these, depending on your current fish's size, you would just try to find the smallest fish to introduce as possible, as they start as female. Not sure on the blennies.

I think a pair of angels could be really cool. But as far as I've gathered, it probably wouldn't work in a tank less than 4-5 times my size. I think my tank is already on the small end for the one I have, unfortunately.

 

I've never heard of a pair of six-lines. That could be cool. But again, with a much larger tank, it could be worth a try.

 

I think about trying a hawk fish. I think I've seen flame hawks and longnoses at my LFS. Which one would be less likely to take a beating?

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I had a pair of falcos that were very chill, but wouldn't take any bull. I don't think any hawk would, tbh. Very bold, personable fish, and my pair made the cutest couple ever.

I just added a tiny pygmy hawk in my 30g with a similar stocklist as yours. They're a little more cryptic than bigger hawks from what I read, but stay much smaller, like <2" (my falco male was over 4").

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I had a pair of falcos that were very chill, but wouldn't take any bull. I don't think any hawk would, tbh. Very bold, personable fish, and my pair made the cutest couple ever.

I just added a tiny pygmy hawk in my 30g with a similar stocklist as yours. They're a little more cryptic than bigger hawks from what I read, but stay much smaller, like <2" (my falco male was over 4").

 

Great info. Thanks sunwyrm
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Hi Nidding.

 

So I would tend to agree with what oleman said with the addition of:

 

4) Inexperienced hobbyist

 

Basically I wouldn't recommend adding more fish to most people because you're in a situation that doesn't apply to a lot of hobbyists. It sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what's going on in your tank though, so I'm not going to say that adding another fish is a bad idea. Actually I have the same issue... I have a 40b with a normal bioload (but I feed very heavy). I started up my refugium and within a month all the algae disappeared from my display, my zoas hate me, SPS lost color/gave up, oh, and my softball size chaeto ball is now like 2 soccer balls side by side - same with the caulerpa. Since 12/1/15 I've removed over 4 gallon zip lock sized bundles of chaeto. So basically I have few to little nutrients in my tank. http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/369004-chaeto-1-month-growth/

 

So at least in my case I considered more aggressive harvesting. I also considered adding more fish or dosing nitrates and other minerals (available as FW planted fertilizers). Finally I considered taking my skimmer offline.

 

Ultimately my plan is to add more fish - but I'm doing it very slowly because the last thing I want to do is suddenly find myself with the opposite problem. So if I were in your situation I would narrow down a list of potential tank mates and add one of them. Then observe and if after a month or however you need to feel that your tank has stabilized add the other fish if it's still needed. Alternatively you could try to estimate the additional burden the tank can handle. If you start dosing ferts and you find that you need to dose a lot to consistently maintain 5-10ppm nitrates then maybe you can add the 2 fish at once? Or even add 1 fish and dose a smaller amount? Anyways these are just ideas... You could just as easily increase your feeding regimen or something else.

 

So going back to inexperience. I wouldn't recommend intentionally overstocking to a novice hobbyist because novices still make a lot of mistakes, may have inconsistent maintenance routines, and sometimes don't have the equipment/dedication/forethought necessary to deal with a problem - should one arise. Overstocking, even if it doesn't violate the conditions above when running smoothly, does pose a risk. For example in the case of a power outage the dissolved oxygen in the water could become depleted very quickly in an overstocked tank. Particularly in a warm climate where a chiller or fan falls out of operation. The conservatively stocked tank may be impacted less severely by events such as these. Just something to think about.

 

For fish recommendations:

- One of the more peaceful damsels (yellow tail, alleni, talbot's, etc...)

- Hawkfish would be cool in a drop-off tank just get one of the smaller varieties. Possible compatibility issue with the blenny?

- Chalk bass

- purple pseudochromis

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I know this isn't related to the thread, but I'm new & i want answers faster. I put this on it's own thread:

"I know that you can acclimate guppies to saltwater. Can I fit 3 guppies in my nano reef?

It's 10 gallons & it has (Not Counting Corals):

1x Ocellaris Clownfish

1x Six-Line Wrasse

1x Green Clown Goby (Died. It was sick)

1x Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp

1x Fire Shrimp

1x Harlequin Shrimp

1x Candy Stripe Pistol Shrimp

1x Bumble Bee Shrimp (will get 2 more)

1x Turban Snail

3x Astrea Snail

1x Narcisus Snail

8x Dwarf Hermit Crab

1x Shortspine Urchin

 

If not, How many could i fit?"

I'm new to Nano-reef btw

 

I know six-line wrasses get territorial, but mine is friends with my clownfish

I wouldn't do it. Though your six line might well be okay with the clown, my bet would be that it would tear the guppies apart. Other than that I would say that 10 gallon is really not that much space for a fish like a six line. It likes to swim around, you know ;)

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Hi Nidding.

 

So I would tend to agree with what oleman said with the addition of:

 

4) Inexperienced hobbyist

 

Basically I wouldn't recommend adding more fish to most people because you're in a situation that doesn't apply to a lot of hobbyists. It sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what's going on in your tank though, so I'm not going to say that adding another fish is a bad idea. Actually I have the same issue... I have a 40b with a normal bioload (but I feed very heavy). I started up my refugium and within a month all the algae disappeared from my display, my zoas hate me, SPS lost color/gave up, oh, and my softball size chaeto ball is now like 2 soccer balls side by side - same with the caulerpa. Since 12/1/15 I've removed over 4 gallon zip lock sized bundles of chaeto. So basically I have few to little nutrients in my tank. http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/369004-chaeto-1-month-growth/

 

So at least in my case I considered more aggressive harvesting. I also considered adding more fish or dosing nitrates and other minerals (available as FW planted fertilizers). Finally I considered taking my skimmer offline.

 

Ultimately my plan is to add more fish - but I'm doing it very slowly because the last thing I want to do is suddenly find myself with the opposite problem. So if I were in your situation I would narrow down a list of potential tank mates and add one of them. Then observe and if after a month or however you need to feel that your tank has stabilized add the other fish if it's still needed. Alternatively you could try to estimate the additional burden the tank can handle. If you start dosing ferts and you find that you need to dose a lot to consistently maintain 5-10ppm nitrates then maybe you can add the 2 fish at once? Or even add 1 fish and dose a smaller amount? Anyways these are just ideas... You could just as easily increase your feeding regimen or something else.

 

So going back to inexperience. I wouldn't recommend intentionally overstocking to a novice hobbyist because novices still make a lot of mistakes, may have inconsistent maintenance routines, and sometimes don't have the equipment/dedication/forethought necessary to deal with a problem - should one arise. Overstocking, even if it doesn't violate the conditions above when running smoothly, does pose a risk. For example in the case of a power outage the dissolved oxygen in the water could become depleted very quickly in an overstocked tank. Particularly in a warm climate where a chiller or fan falls out of operation. The conservatively stocked tank may be impacted less severely by events such as these. Just something to think about.

 

For fish recommendations:

- One of the more peaceful damsels (yellow tail, alleni, talbot's, etc...)

- Hawkfish would be cool in a drop-off tank just get one of the smaller varieties. Possible compatibility issue with the blenny?

- Chalk bass

- purple pseudochromis

Yep. I agree! :)

 

I thought about the possible issue with the blenny as well. They do seem to be quite similar in behaviour, so maybe that wouldn't work out.

Chalk bass and purple pseudochromis are both good suggestions, which I will be sure to keep in mind. I'm not sure if I ever saw a chalk bass here in Denmark, though...

 

Thanks for the answer!

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I know this isn't related to the thread, but I'm new & i want answers faster. I put this on it's own thread:

"I know that you can acclimate guppies to saltwater. Can I fit 3 guppies in my nano reef?

It's 10 gallons & it has (Not Counting Corals):

1x Ocellaris Clownfish

1x Six-Line Wrasse

1x Green Clown Goby (Died. It was sick)

1x Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp

1x Fire Shrimp

1x Harlequin Shrimp

1x Candy Stripe Pistol Shrimp

1x Bumble Bee Shrimp (will get 2 more)

1x Turban Snail

3x Astrea Snail

1x Narcisus Snail

8x Dwarf Hermit Crab

1x Shortspine Urchin

 

If not, How many could i fit?"

I'm new to Nano-reef btw

 

I know six-line wrasses get territorial, but mine is friends with my clownfish

So many shrimp my head's spinning. :blink: Do you have pics or a tank thread? I wouldn't add the guppies imo, they're not very "smart" and everything will go after them, even your clown. I added mollies and literally everything would take a chunk and they'd just stay in the same spot.

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I know this isn't related to the thread, but I'm new & i want answers faster. I put this on it's own thread:

"I know that you can acclimate guppies to saltwater. Can I fit 3 guppies in my nano reef?

It's 10 gallons & it has (Not Counting Corals):

1x Ocellaris Clownfish

1x Six-Line Wrasse

1x Green Clown Goby (Died. It was sick)

1x Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp

1x Fire Shrimp

1x Harlequin Shrimp

1x Candy Stripe Pistol Shrimp

1x Bumble Bee Shrimp (will get 2 more)

1x Turban Snail

3x Astrea Snail

1x Narcisus Snail

8x Dwarf Hermit Crab

1x Shortspine Urchin

If not, How many could i fit?"

I'm new to Nano-reef btw

I know six-line wrasses get territorial, but mine is friends with my clownfish

The guppies would become food fast or is that fast food?

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After The tank is clear of ich, I'm getting Another Green Clown Goby & a Bluestripe Pipefish.

Maybe also a court jester goby? Would that be too much bioload?

Is it even ich? I'll try to get a picture of the wrasse.

Stop hijacking this thread and go back to your own. Your questions aren't even related to the topic of this thread.

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