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DO I NEED TO PANIC


Big daz

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Daz - glad you got the aiptasia. Removing a chunk of rock certainly seems like it should do the trick! Hopefully more don't spring up on you.

 

News, bummer about your dog. I suppose you're justified in whatever action you took given your understanding of the subject and the risks you were willing to take.

 

Just for information, google CDC and palytoxin. They released a paper on it last August after investigating a family poisoned by inhalation (they all survived). I ran across it last October when one of our dogs was in ICU for a week due to an unknown toxin. He survived too, thankfully, $4000 later ;-). I haven't posted about it because we could not be 100% certain that was what happened, but the day before he became ill I was fragging some no name teal palys and he was laying at my feet on a towel that was catching the water dripping (I am messy). The vet specialists ran myriad tests and ruled out the usual canine poisoning/infectious suspects - mushrooms, antifreeze, tickborne diseases, cancer, etc. We went over the house and yard and came up empty. Then I finally remembered the palys and started researching. The vet said it was definitely a possibilty after she read the CDC report due to his wbc and recovery. Can I say for sure it was palytoxin? No, but I came home from that visit and removed the palys and zoas in my tank. Overreaction, probably, at least the zoas, but with dogs and a grandbaby in the den around the tanks, I just felt better. Will probably get zoas again after doing more research, but no palys here ... just for what it is worth. I had no idea that some palys were that dangerous.

 

Thanks news - I didn't post any links because I don't want to fan any flames as the topic can get a little hot (pun intended) - I'm not trying to sound haughty at all with my comments. I assume it's the family in Alaska you're referring to with the CDC site? That's the case where no rock was boiled yet they still were poisoned - presumably by the palytoxin.

 

I totally agree that palytoxin is real and that it's dangerous - I'm simply trying to play the devils advocate and encourage people to get interested and research it themselves rather than simply accepting the statement "never ever boil rock" then repeating it ad nauseam. Such statements without an understanding don't really help because it's like saying "Never shake hands with someone who has a cold". In reality there are many ways to catch a cold - and I'm guessing we understand the transmission vehicles of the influenza virus better than we understand the transmission of palytoxin!

 

Also, take the word "palytoxin". Palythoa is actually a genus within the order zoantharia - so many sources that I've read agree that zoanthids are just as likely to carry the toxin.

 

Here's an interesting read:

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/aquarium-science-palytoxin-and-you-how-and-why-to-avoid-a-deadly-zoanthid-toxin.htm

 

As for the exploding rock, reef rock is porous enough to allow any internal pressure created from the heat to escape. Also boiling isn't hot enough to build up significant pressure in the first place. Don't believe me though - search yourself. All accounts I've read or seen (was an active and curious scout) were dense rocks like river rocks or granite and exposed directly to intense fire.

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Agree totally - I guess I didn't nake myself clear. I found no reports of deaths from people inhaling or handling palytoxin in reef tanks - just illness. Before I searched for anything that could have poisoned our dog I had no idea that there was such a thing. I just think peopke should be aware so they can decide what they are comfortable with in their tanks - and you give excellent reasons why none of us should boil live tock, with or without palys!

 

I am not sure if it was in the CDC report or elsewhere, but there was interesting info in one of the reports the vet and I read about the testing of different zoas and palys and the wildly differing amounts of toxin in each. Its a shame that there isn't more research available, as you said, so we would actually know which are "safest".

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There have been reports of certain strains of paly and zoa containing different amounts of toxin. This is why I always wear gloves when handling those corals, because it's better to be safe than hospitalized. :lol: Just probably don't boil your live rock anyways. Peppermint shrimp have always been a great natural solution for me.

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Thank god aiptasia aren't toxic :lol:

If they were, a lot of us would be 6 feet under ... esp. me. Daz, hope your aiptasia is gone forever - I hate it with a passion, had it take over my first little reef tank.

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Well it's been out for a little while now and no signs of any others did find a little slug thing but he didn't last long

 

Also my parameters are now getting a lot better so time to start thinking about who should be my first lodger

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In my limited experience Aiptasia-X has been successful on smaller ones but I had a big one that it wouldn't kill. It was a little bigger in diameter than a quarter when opened up. The X would knock it down for about a week but it always came back. I finally removed the rock and cooked the little terrorist with a butane pencil torch like the one pictured. Worked like a champ and the rock was only out of the water for about 2 minutes max.

 

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