c_man7 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I have a question if I buy LR from my LFS do I still need to cure the live rock if the rock came from established tanks? Link to comment
Tamberav Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Just moving rock and placing it in a different orientation causes some die off. I would not directly add it to an established display if that is your intention. Link to comment
c_man7 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 I'm just now starting a tank so there wont be anything in it once its added. Link to comment
Tamberav Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I'm just now starting a tank so there wont be anything in it once its added. Curing is done outside the tank in another container. I think you are wondering about cycling the rock. It will still most likely cycle. It could be a very short process or a long one, just depends on the rock and how much die off occurs. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 http://reef2reef.com/threads/new-tank-cycling-tank-bacteria-and-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/page-2#post-2667133 This thread was written with 50% of it dedicated to your question cman I opt out of all cycling, others opt in, easy to choose. Link to comment
c_man7 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Ok so I get my 20-30lb of lr take it home fill a container with saltwater, heater, and water pump, let sit for a few days, scrub off any dying material/change water, repeat. then put in the new tank to start the nitrogen cycle? Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 No I'm getting an opposite plan based on the thread, we didn't mention scrubbing. What kind of live rock are you getting based on the thread, if it's group b no scrubbing, and if it's uncured no scrubbing. The thread shows how to bring home live rock and not cycle or scrub, keep it underwater for the move and verify living creatures prior to choosing the start mode. Link to comment
c_man7 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 No I'm getting an opposite plan based on the thread, we didn't mention scrubbing. What kind of live rock are you getting based on the thread, if it's group b no scrubbing, and if it's uncured no scrubbing. The thread shows how to bring home live rock and not cycle or scrub, keep it underwater for the move and verify living creatures prior to choosing the start mode. Ahh I should've started from the beginning. Sorry about that. Link to comment
c_man7 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 No I'm getting an opposite plan based on the thread, we didn't mention scrubbing. What kind of live rock are you getting based on the thread, if it's group b no scrubbing, and if it's uncured no scrubbing. The thread shows how to bring home live rock and not cycle or scrub, keep it underwater for the move and verify living creatures prior to choosing the start mode. This was so helpful. So basically I can take a couple 5 gallon buckets fill it with the LR and tank water bring it home and add it to my tank. Wait a little bit before slowly adding bioload. Link to comment
D Z Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 This was so helpful. So basically I can take a couple 5 gallon buckets fill it with the LR and tank water bring it home and add it to my tank. Wait a little bit before slowly adding bioload. Pretty much, but you are relying on the fact that whatever system you are getting from at the LFS is truly well established. If you want some extra insurance, you can add some bottled bacteria such as Microbacter7 or Biospira to ensure little to no cycle. For example, I brought home some LR to start a frag tank about a week ago. I have it sitting in a big rubbermaid container in my garage with a heater and pump for circulation. I know it was well established LR to begin with, so a little microbacter7 and a week of waiting and I will be good to go to add it to my tank and ready for livestock. As always, though, and as you stated, take it slow with adding livestock so that the denitrifying bacteria can keep up. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 yes and it sounds rogue, cavalier and disrespectful to the reef elders but its no anarchy promise! the point of that windy thread is the life we can see, and what it means. If you have live rock that is barren white, you cant see any, its suspect and has to be tested via digestion tests to know where it stands. contrast that to purple with fanworms...pods, worms, not items just crawling over the rock, but stuck to it. you can actually prevent them from dying, and should. we paid extra $$ for them! Fanworms that have tubes literally accreted to the rock, and then put out a living fan, are the gold standard of benthic verifications. The accretion took months, years or millennia depending on source, the coralline backs up the known time frame, the extended fans prove no ammonia is currently leaking, and you simply move tanks while underwater to preserve that status. its not about beaking rules all crazy its just about knowing exactly whats an option and whats not. If you wanted to be really thorough, the thread mentions a high quality non API ammonia test such as salifert. the final say on whether or not you mini cycle is a high quality ammonia test kit, pay for one if you want extra piece of mind beyond the benthics, not a problem. It is fully ok to add bottle bac or not, mb7 is fine. live rock that has coralline and other living benthics has the full complement of bacteria, always, even if you didn't feed the rock for 6 months, they don't lessen. The important takeaway is that we don't have to boost, support or concern about the bacteria from live rock when its either digest-test proven, or proven via visual benthic clues, those are equal. The point of the thread was knowing how to trust the biosystem, not second guess it. Link to comment
D Z Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 yes and it sounds rogue, cavalier and disrespectful to the reef elders but its no anarchy promise! the point of that windy thread is the life we can see, and what it means. If you have live rock that is barren white, you cant see any, its suspect and has to be tested via digestion tests to know where it stands. contrast that to purple with fanworms...pods, worms, not items just crawling over the rock, but stuck to it. you can actually prevent them from dying, and should. we paid extra $$ for them! Fanworms that have tubes literally accreted to the rock, and then put out a living fan, are the gold standard of benthic verifications. The accretion took months, years or millennia depending on source, the coralline backs up the known time frame, the extended fans prove no ammonia is currently leaking, and you simply move tanks while underwater to preserve that status. its not about beaking rules all crazy its just about knowing exactly whats an option and whats not. If you wanted to be really thorough, the thread mentions a high quality non API ammonia test such as salifert. the final say on whether or not you mini cycle is a high quality ammonia test kit, pay for one if you want extra piece of mind beyond the benthics, not a problem. It is fully ok to add bottle bac or not, mb7 is fine. live rock that has coralline and other living benthics has the full complement of bacteria, always, even if you didn't feed the rock for 6 months, they don't lessen. The important takeaway is that we don't have to boost, support or concern about the bacteria from live rock when its either digest-test proven, or proven via visual benthic clues, those are equal. The point of the thread was knowing how to trust the biosystem, not second guess it. All very valid points, as always Brandon. I will have to take a read through that article when I have some free time. It sounds interesting. Link to comment
c_man7 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Awesome you guys have helped clear things up for me. Once more of my equipment and acrylic come in I can set the tank up. Link to comment
lallen_74 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I just started a brand-new tank with LR from my LFS; I bought about 12-14 pounds for the 10G tank. Evidently it was good stuff: highly colored, full of tubeworms, fanworms, and even some unidentified coral polyps. I kept it wet on the way home and submerged it/aquascaped it immediately in the tank, and so far, so good. I did have some dieback of the corraline, but I'd say it was only 40% or a little less. The system is 14 days old now, and it's already recovering. I had no measurable startup cycle, given all this. I also added a maiden's hair macro, a few snails, and a couple of hermits in the first week, once I saw that my parameters were nice and stable; now I'd adding shrimp, an emerald crab, and maybe a couple of zoas next. Best of luck! Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Lallen if you'll post a full tank shot of your group B rocks ill link it back up to my big thread as a working example you did Link to comment
lallen_74 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Brandon, here's one from Day 8: I will get another shot tomorrow (Day 15) showing the corraline regrowth too, as soon as I get back from the reef store. They're holding a gorgeous 5-headed Duncan for me..woot! Link to comment
lallen_74 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Okay, here are a few pics. My journal corrected me: it was actually Day 14 when I took these. The shot below is a good example of the coralline regrowth I'm seeing. This rock bleached out a bit on the first few days, but is already looking more purple by the day. You can see some spots turning really bright. This is a shot of some of my hitchhiker polyps. And another one (this one is getting huge): And here's a decent picture of some of the polychetes that came with my LR. I have a healthy population of the two-tentacled tubeworm (these guys are so cool) and the tiny fan type. I also have a type that builds a dark purple barnacle-type thing, but I can't get a good pic; they're very tiny. Here's another full-tank pic: I guess some might say that I have too much LR per gallon, but I think I like how things are progressing. My stock (not including my microscopic and volunteer population, which I honestly like almost as well as the stuff I buy) is as follows: -'Tangerine' zoanthus -small green-polyped zoa, maybe 'Goblins' -one Duncan -one fire shrimp -one cleaner shrimp -one emerald crab -four turban snails -four red-legged hermits -one clump of maiden's hair macroalgae -(the dragon's breath I'd mail-ordered died a swift and spectacular death...I think it froze in transit.) Anyway, hopefully you can see the LR starting to color back up between the above photo and these! Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I did link this right up to the thread those are perfect visual identifiers and they mean your rock has the same filtration abilities now as it will nine years from now even if you vary the bio loading in between. The constant will be the bacteria that are always there and in vast abundance of what you'll ever need Link to comment
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