Keeping sand clean in pico reef or get rid of sand altogether?

[Stormie257769]

I've got a 3 gallon pico reef that's been up and running for about four months. Before I knew how difficult pico tanks were, I set up a sand bed approximately 1/2-inch deep. Over the course of my tank life, I've had multiple twin-spotted gobies and one diamond goby that were keeping the sand clean (one at a time), but almost all have committed suicide. Literally, all but one of them have jumped out of the tank.

 

Any suggestions on critters other than gobies to keep my sand clean, or should I just slowly remove the sand altogether? I know me, and I'm too lazy to vacuum, stir, etc. the sand.

 

If you do suggest removal, how would you go about it? Should I do it all at once and put the coral in another container or should I slowly remove it with a turkey baster or something similar?

 

Thanks!

[Mariaface]

Remove it a bit at a time during water changes with a vacuum hose or piece of .5in tubing. You don't want to disturb the entire sandbed, just in case. And make sure your activated carbon is fresh!

[aer0]

I personally dont think you need to remove it, its not been in there long enough to go completely bad so you have a couple of choices.

 

1, make a mesh lid for the tank and get a sifter goby

2, agitate the sand bed on a regular basis just before doing a water change

3, leave it and dont disturb it, if you do disturb it make sure you have some fresh carbon on hand to put in there just incase

4, remove it and be done with it

[aquarium]

Recently on my tank, I decided to vacuum the sand for the first time. I did it very slowly, and have seen great algae reduction. I would start by vacuuming a very small section with every water change.

[brandon429]

Neat option for research

 

What's the longest running 3 gallon on this site (el fabs sticky pico forum) and how long did it run before old tank syndrome crashing (3 yrs) and how close are you to the known best lifespan of an untouched pico bed (early on but a cleaning can be preventative, too)

 

Based on all that I must vote cleaning. My way is to

 

Lift out rocks and coral and fish, hold elsewhere.

 

What's left in tank then is sand and water, make the sand so clean that zero clouding can result, a full blast clean not a partial. As of now, it will cloud massively so we're being opposite and deliberate to cause extra lifespan (current record 10 yrs)

 

Put all removed items back in tank, no recycle because we controlled all detritus. You can move your rocks among holding tanks with no cycle just plan carefully

 

For sure, this is the minority recommend the majority recommends oppositely

[Mariaface]

 

 

Any suggestions on critters other than gobies to keep my sand clean, or should I just slowly remove the sand altogether? I know me, and I'm too lazy to vacuum, stir, etc. the sand.

 

 

 

I feel like this is the important bit...

[Beer]

I've got bare bottom in mine right now and I really don't care for it but I was having issues with the sand, about 1/2-3/4". My issue was not having anything working the sand bed. I've got a blue legged hermit that was doing a better job on the rocks than the snails. The hermit decided he needed the snail's home more than they did, so O lost my maintenance crew without realizing it. I also haven't been able to find true live sand (not the stuff with just bacteria, real live sand with worms and bugs and stuff), so the sand bed wasn't getting turned over and got stagnant since I was just doing basic cleaning.

 

I've been contemplating adding a really thin layer of sand to make it easier to stir up and clean during water changes. With the bare bottom, I need to remove everything to clean the bottom glass due to the small size, which creates maneuverability issues for cleaning devices, that and the high mortality rate of snails in the display.

 

Bare bottom doesn't necessarily make it algae free or easier to clean. You just don't end up with a nutrient sink if it isn't being maintained and algae removal takes a different approach.

 

 

[EDIT] As Maria pointed out, if you aren't going to keep up on the maintenance, you need to address the issue of a slightly deeper sand bed. Keep it, build a screen, and replace the goby; get a bunch of sand sifting snails like ceriths (I prefer dwarf cerith) and nassaraus and maybe some micro brittle stars; thin out the sand bed or remove it altogether.

[Mariaface]

I also haven't been able to find true live sand (not the stuff with just bacteria, real live sand with worms and bugs and stuff), so the sand bed wasn't getting turned over and got stagnant since I was just doing basic cleaning.

 

 

 

Like this?

[MrZ2u]

So I have a question then from a different perspective. I am in the planning stages right now on a 3.7 AIO. I want a sand bottom and was not planning on any fish at all. In terms of things that move around I was planning on three sexy shrimp.

I want the sand for aesthetic reasons. I am not opposed to snails or something like that but I was trying to avoid too many critters that arent considered coral. How would you go about sand and/or things in my case.

[Mariaface]

So I have a question then from a different perspective. I am in the planning stages right now on a 3.7 AIO. I want a sand bottom and was not planning on any fish at all. In terms of things that move around I was planning on three sexy shrimp.

 

I want the sand for aesthetic reasons. I am not opposed to snails or something like that but I was trying to avoid too many critters that arent considered coral. How would you go about sand and/or things in my case.

 

 

Just take care of it. Vacuum it, stir it up a bit at a time, baste into it before a water change, etc.

[Beer]

And don't go very deep. Maybe 1/4"-3/8". Throw a filter sock or pad in the overflow and stir/baste the sand before you siphon. Working the entire sand bed isn't an issue if you are doing it every week or two, but it can be a pain. Half every week is quicker/easier and won't completely remove what ever has made it into the sand bed.

 

Like this?

Yeah, stuff like that, but they are crazy expensive for what you are getting. I remember when I was researching putting a salt water aquarium together around 2000, you could find live sand with all those creatures in it for a fre bucks a puound that had pretty high densities of those creatures, more than what you are paying $20 each for.

Those packs are way too big for my tank anyway. I've been considering picking up some GARF Grunge for some time, but I'd only need a half pound of it (more than likely 1/4lb would be more than sufficient), but it's not really worth their effort to collect such a small amount and shipping makes it rather ridiculously overpriced since there really isn't anything else I'd be ordering. I suppose I could contact GARF and IPSF and see what the possibility of getting a pico pack put together is.

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I've had sand in my last two tanks. I'm planning another build now and I'm going bare bottom. Not that I didn't like the look of sand (on the contrary, I did.. a lot), but I was not able to maintain it properly. I'm going for minimalist, simple, and low maintenance this time around, and nixing the sand was part of that decision.

[MrZ2u]

 

 

Just take care of it. Vacuum it, stir it up a bit at a time, baste into it before a water change, etc.

"baste into it" What do you mean by that phrase?

[Mariaface]

"baste into it" What do you mean by that phrase?

 

Use a turkey baster, blow water into the sand to disperse it and let detritus escape into the water column. Mechanical filtration or siphoning (or, let's be honest, corals and other critters) will make short work of it.

[ajmckay]

For the gobies, a 3g is likely too small for most sand sifters so not surprised they jumped. You can build a screen top for probably less than one of those fish cost... If you're going to keep anything that can move fast (fish or shrimp) you should seriously consider getting a screen top made or put one together yourself. Any spooked animal will usually resort to a "run away" reaction and they can move too quickly for such a small tank and shoot themselves right out of the water. Additionally some fish/inverts jump in an attempt to reach other tide pools if they don't have enough food.

 

A few thoughts:

 

1) If you have a fine grain sand bed then I'm sort of with Brandon... Every 6 months or whatever when the sand starts to look nasty just take everything out of the tank and put it in a bucket with the tank water. Then take the sand, rinse it thoroughly with FW, then put it back and add new water. Given the tiny size of the tank it should only take a few minutes really. Fine grain sand tends to collect less detritus though it can still become a bit of a nutrient sink over time. If you're concerned about a cycle due to removing too much biological filtration you could remove half the sand a week before as part of a water change. Adding back clean, rinsed sand won't cause a cycle. If you use tap water to clean the sand (that's what I do) add some dechlorinator after rinsing and try to drain it as thoroughly as possible by lining a strainer with a paper towel.

 

2) Get a large grain sand (3-5mm+) like crushed coral or something. This would allow you to use a gravel vac similar to what you would use in a FW tank with gravel.

[brandon429]

I know it sounds counterproductive to rip into these tanks but that's the beauty, and luck of working nanos. The insanity that large tank keepers face in dealing with sandbeds good and bad that they cant access for cleaning like we do is literal algae madness and sinked frustration documented in posts across the web.

 

 

 

any deep sand bed in reefing that isn't being actively exported by the keeper is on a slow path to old tank syndrome, simple as that. through various inversions that condition may be staved off a long time, or forever.

 

The oldest large tank sandbed I know is Paul B's at 40 yrs. since it ejects detritus, vs consume and retain it, the tank is 40 yrs old with a deep sand bed. He runs a sandbed polar opposite of todays methods, and todays methods don't work very well after 3 yrs says el fabs tank.

 

 

 

 

*not advising ripping into an old sandbed all full of waste, this is about preventative care and deep cleaning as needed. need to proceed carefully if bed is already in a wasteful state

 

preventative care in sections is ok if its part of the starting design, not a catch up. going bare bottom has obvious benefits stated...I just like to see things being done differently with them and I like my own DSB very much, its very clean.

[picozoa]

 

 

Like this?

 

IPSF is a ripoff IMO.

 

The entire process is extremely buyer unfriendly.