I would like some feedback on my cycle

[Rpc07]

So I recently set up a reef tank and would like some feedback

Tank:

29g Biocube

24lbs cured live rock

20lbs live sand

100% Nutrisea water diluted with rodi down to 1.026

Swapped out bioballs for sea hem matrix bio media

 

Now my lfs told me I can set the tank up wait 2 days and add fish since I have the sea water, live rock and sand. This goes against what I know about fish keeping.

 

I set everything up Saturday and just let it run its coarse.

Sunday I dosed with ace hardware ammonia to about 2-3ppm

 

Here is what's going on now

 

Sg 1.026

Ph 8.0

Ammonia 1 ppm

Nitrite 1ppm

Nitrate 10 ppm

 

My question is when should I dose the tank with more ammonia? And what ppm of ammonia am I shooting for? I don't plan on adding any livestock until the tank is fully cycled.

 

Thank you for viewing and any help you can provide, Ryan.

[brandon429]

http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-tank-cycling-tank-bacteria-and-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/

 

I wrote that thread exactly for this kind of tank. Tying into that link, it's only two short pages, the lfs could be right but you don't have to jump with the fish so quick. To do that untested I'd want the most purple, twisted growth locked in life forms I could see quality live rock.

 

Giving some time allows for tank param controls to work out unique to each system and a couple mistakes which other animals might tolerate vs a fish

 

But if specific germ science is wanted to break or bend or alter a rule, I tried to include it there. We have to know if you are using API to make the assessment

 

Is ok if you are but we need to factor in test variations and actually evaluate your entire setup off what's in and on the live rock as key indicator. That's the heart of that thread above, reliable start indicators. Your ammonia testing is fine and is also able to indicate cycle status but it stresses living animals to run that test, we cover. Can you post a full tank shot of your setup here

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you want to digest test your live rock they'll survive, but the reading must be salifert, Hanna, possibly Red Sea ammonia at the very least. Faulty ammonia read outs have caused anarchy, looting and societal breakdown I've seen it and lived it and scars still remain

 

 

 

If any of that thread helps you select a specific start date for your reef, I'll link your thread here back to that one above to tie in. A finite start date for every reef and a reliable means to know is purely the point.

[Rpc07]

I am using an api kit. Should I buy just a new ammonia test kit and continue to use the api for everything else?

 

Here is a front shot of my tank not sure if that's what your looking for.

 

 

I will read the article now. Thanks for the info. And any help you can give me is greatly appreciated id rather make my mistakes without fish in the tank.

[brandon429]

Excellent pics that's wonderful

 

See how I opened up the thread with two different shots of rock? Yours was sold as group B, supposedly cured, but they lack clear benthic growths to prove it so your testing is ideal and indeed they may not be ready. It's also possible they are ready, but haven't been exposed enough for worms and stuff to attach so only testing can tell us, you are on track.

 

Benthic indicators of true live rock:

#1 coralline

Worms

Sponges

Little starfish, pods

Hitchhiker corals or pests

Any living form attached or living motile within

 

When live rock has real benthics we can see, the bacteria are ready.

 

When it doesn't, only the testing you are doing can tell. Your lfs *may* be right but the rocks certainly haven't cured very long among reef life or they'd have more on it. Now we get to test your lfs claims but we need you to be able to at least take a sample to another test kit somewhere else to calibrate how your API reads

 

API isn't terrible just the ammonia ranges enough I like to forego the risk and use not API

 

 

The lower right portion of the scape certainly has some filtration ability, it has purple coralline I can see. Tying into the thread above, the live rock won't be harmed by ammonia digestion testing since there aren't many benthic growths to lose who don't like free ammonia. Any life forms you add are counter indicative to ammonia testing, digestion abilities have to be known before stocking unless the rocks are clearly group B type rocks

[Rpc07]

I'll pick up a new ammonia kit and continue to use Ali for everything else. Going to read that article soon. One more question when should I dose with more ammonia?

 

Here is a close shot of the left and right sides.

 

Left side

 

Right side

[brandon429]

The tank is verified ready when it digests a few ppm, any amount, down to true zero within 24 hours and can do it a few times in a row. That will give the start date since any reasonable start bioload is not a few ppm into the tank as a constant, we are overdosing on ammonia as systemic proof. I think I see one true cured rock in there and the rest are in question, due to no benthics, but simply can be tested along with the whole group to see the collective ability.

 

 

How much ammonia to maintain during a cycle doesn't matter, just not above 5 accurate ppm that's too high

 

Any trace amount including .75 ppm constant, dosed with a nice bottle bacteria, will move the cycle along towards a typically one month timeframe to be able to pass a digestion start date test.

 

Adding bottle bac and ammonia will speed it nicely if you'd like to

[Rpc07]

Ok I appreciate all your help. I'll let the tank run its course until tomorrow and then see what the parameters are and go from there.

[Rpc07]

So I found these little guys this morning I think they are feather dusters? I'm assuming this is a good sign.

 

 

There are 3-4 of them on one rock that I can see.

[brandon429]

Awesome!! Group B rock there but from a distance didn't reveal the easy telltale coralline. They have been underwater mos not weeks, where coralline wasn't selected beyond just beginning spots we see, here's how to verify that:

 

Put a tiny chunk of dry white rock into any established nano reef tank and count weeks until one of those fanworms attaches i bet minimum months

 

 

 

Those are the specific life forms that don't like free ammonia though they may tolerate forced attempts. They specifically tell you that rock already has full nitrifiers, bacteria deposit first on reef substrate. We can see it's not mega porous Tonga branch or anything but it is indeed cured base rock.

 

 

If most of your rock is like this, the lfs is panning out true. Wherever these were cured it wasn't a selection for coralline, as in too dark or low calcium but it was underwater and in the presence of feed we can see by your fine pic. If most of your tank is like this I'd buy some frags and wait a month on fish. No more digestion testing needed if most of your rock is like this

 

the biology is specifically saying your lfs is likely fully right. I'm linking your thread to mine now it's perfect. You really do appear to have Group B rocks that appear to be Group A only due to lack of coralline. So glad that the term benthic community gives us counter options to look for, fanworms take a long time to accrete up to new white rock. My main takeaway if this was my tank is simply run some frags. Do fish in March. Can't go wrong w a few easy frags. Begin feeding and water changes and never letting algae show up on that rock as it matures, guide this reef. To me that's a balanced start based on known and verified history of the live rock

[Rpc07]

Awesome. Very happy now. I would say about half my rock is this way. My ammonia today is down to .25 ppm so I put about 12-15 more drops in to keep seeding that tank.

 

Ph 8.0

Ammonia .25 ppm

Nitrite is between .5 and 1 ppm

Nitrate is showing between 10-20 ppm. Probably closer to the 20 range.

 

If I introduce a few Harry frag how should I continue to seed the tank? When should a introduce a cuc? I read that most introduce them before drags or fish. And what should I be feeding if I only have frags? I'm new to all this and want to do things the right way the first time.

And has far as my lfs I can tell you the rock was all kept in a large tank and there was no light on the tank.

[brandon429]

If those are API results above, it might be fair to say that ammonia is zero. google that see if you agree

 

per the cycling thread we disregard nitrite the whole time

 

nitrate is there

 

known verified benthics, all lfs statements panning out this is ready for a light bioload. the only way to really truly prove it is a salifert ammonia digestion test, but you have fanworms who indicate not to do that (as a summary of the cycling events featured here)

 

it probably would run fish bioload, but that's the part we wait on a month or so. if you add any frags at all, your system can process a few or a lot. what you feed ranges in preference, I use high quality frozen cyclopeeze alone for 10 years now

 

begin all water changes enjoy the start! regarding overall care, anyone that tells you how to begin might be guilty of slanting opinions in the mix so ill link this thread. what I mentioned here is the bare minimum to run coral tanks, I use it, and pico reefs in general were built off it.

 

the finer nuances of reefing are up to much debate but not the bare bones stuff, we cut our teeth on that

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/368956-starting-an-edge/

[Rpc07]

I can get to the store tomorrow and pick up some frags, when should I do my first water change? Seems a bit over whelming when I thought I'd be waiting a month or so before adding anything. Now the cycle is happening so fast I don't want to make any mistakes.

 

So my questions are.

 

When should my first water change be done?

When should I add a cuc?

And once I add frags start feeding the frags and stop dosing with ammonia?

 

Thanks for your patience. Your info has been very helpful.

[brandon429]

People begin to disagree at this very point and the confusion will grow. I have found the best way to answer it is to provide the bare minimum it takes to run a reef tank, anything above that is optional.

 

 

I don't use a clean up crew. if snails and crabs are added, they are for motion and general hijinks

 

I water change all my water weekly because my tank is small. larger tanks do less, the more you do the better your reef is. So if you started your system doing water changes every single day, that would allow you to feed and stock more. since that's not practical, its fair to start with a water change now which is simply a fresh start for your new additions, and change some water weekly of course im assuming you have water prep measures down

 

if you mix up water to use, don't cap it. keep the lid open and store it in a pantry and top off, for a long list of reasons don't cap your change water, headache saver.

 

Our thread about starting does not mean you have to start any date, its just the measurement options to start when you want to. There can be no harm in your tank running empty, fed or not, for three more mos. the benthics will simply wait, the bacteria will simply not die.

 

you might ask how are my tanks algae free if no clean up crew? I kill the algae.

[Rpc07]

Ok so taking into account everything. I would enjoy a cuc to help with the tank and also for some more movement and a variety of live stock. So let's say this is my game plan.

 

Tomorrow do a 20-25% water change. Add a few hardy frags and a small cuc.

 

I plan on doing my water changes with Nutrisea water to keep thinks simple. And I would love to start adding live stock asap as long as it's safe to do so.

[brandon429]

I guarantee you what you considered adding will not die, and you wont feel too rushed if you'll focus on them a few weeks. That is simply a tiny, tiny bioload and they'll respond to easy water changes no problem. that's not rushing, reasonable start

 

water changes can only come too late, not too soon, do them whenever. if you wait too long, algae builds up from the waste in the water. theres never a wrong time you can do a large water change especially when the tank is new, before fish.

[Rpc07]

I guarantee you what you considered adding will not die, and you wont feel too rushed if you'll focus on them a few weeks. That is simply a tiny, tiny bioload and they'll respond to easy water changes no problem. that's not rushing, reasonable start

Awesome. Then that is my game plan. After a few weeks of getting my routine in order I will add a pair of clown fish. I want to move slow and enjoy each step of this tank. I really appreciate all your help.

[charnelhouse]

Brandon has you on the right track. You should stop dosing ammonia immediately. If you have a mishap you could kill your little feather dusters. The fact that they are still alive in spite of ammonia dosing points to a fully functioning bacterial biofilter.

 

If you are considering other fish in addition to the clowns, get an idea of what you want and look into which fish to add in what order. Clowns can become extremely territorial and should be a later addition if you intend to keep fish that have a less territorial tendency.

[Rpc07]

Brandon has you on the right track. You should stop dosing ammonia immediately. If you have a mishap you could kill your little feather dusters. The fact that they are still alive in spite of ammonia dosing points to a fully functioning bacterial biofilter.

 

If you are considering other fish in addition to the clowns, get an idea of what you want and look into which fish to add in what order. Clowns can become extremely territorial and should be a later addition if you intend to keep fish that have a less territorial tendency.

This morning was my last dose of ammonia. Tank is currently at 1 ppm. I will do a water change tomorrow and add the frags and cuc.

 

As far as fish a pair of clowns are the only fish I know I want. I don't want to go nuts and over stock I want to keep it simple I was thinking 4 fish total. What fish keep well in a Biocube?

[charnelhouse]

This morning was my last dose of ammonia. Tank is currently at 1 ppm. I will do a water change tomorrow and add the frags and cuc.

 

As far as fish a pair of clowns are the only fish I know I want. I don't want to go nuts and over stock I want to keep it simple I was thinking 4 fish total. What fish keep well in a Biocube?

 

4 fish is doable in a BC29, maybe even 5 depending on what they are. Look at Igreen's nano fish thread pinned to the top of this forum. That will give you a good idea of what you can stock. Be aware that with an AIO you cannot count the rear chamber volume when considering fish stock.

 

There are many fish that would do fine with a pair of clowns, but in most cases it is advisable to add the clowns after you add your other fish.