Dinos? Something else? Now with better pics

[davy jones]

Hello, So over the last month or so ive had some build up and some Different "slime" stuff going on. Ive added a carbon reactor which has slowed it down tremendously and i baste the rocks a few times a week.

 

2 things.

 

I KNOW i need another powerhead. Working on a deal for a used mp40 for $150.. But if it falls through i will be buying a new one as im sick of dealing with craigslist people.

 

I recently hooked up my RO/DI so i will be doing lots of 10-20% water changes over the next couple of weeks. Ideally ill do something like 10 gallons a day for an entire week so i change out 120% of the water. But i need to do a few smaller water changes first as to get my params closer to that of my salt mix. ( was a week behind on water changes so im sure my levels are quite low for alk and cal, dont want to shock anyone.)

 

Now for the description (will have pics up tonight if i dont find any good ones on my phone)

It is a brown slimy algea that builds up kind of like cyano, except it becomes stringy in higher flow, It syphons out pretty easy and primaraly grows in low flow areas but eventually grows fairly well in high flow areas as well. Sometimes i notice little bubbles at the end of the string of slime.

 

 

You can kind of see it growing here on the frag rack.

 

 

On the sand it kind of looks like diatoms but as I let it grow it becomes more of a slime and becomes stringy. Never as heavy and grouped togeather as cyano though.

 

Like i said ill post better photos tonight or tomorrow.

 

Ive done some reading and some of the suggestions ive found are

3 day black out

use kalwrasser to keep ph above 8.4 (both alone and during black out) (( not sure how this works, explanation please?))

and 1ml peroxide per 10 gallons for 10 days.

 

Now as ive said before i like hearing the opinions of you guys because a lot of you are VERY successful in this hobby and know what youre talking about.

 

Thaks for the help

[jedimasterben]

Take pics with less blue so we can see more clearly. If they are dinoflagellates, then your proposed water change schedule will fuel them into a full bloom.

[davy jones]

Take pics with less blue so we can see more clearly. If they are dinoflagellates, then your proposed water change schedule will fuel them into a full bloom.

I will have better pics tonight sorry,

 

Why will the waterchanges be bad? Are you saying i should not do any WC's?

[davy jones]

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see its mostly a brown slime that traps and creates bubbles. It is mostly in low flow areas but will also eventually build up in high flow areas as well

[davy jones]

Ive done a LOT of reading over the last day or so, and heres what i decided to do in terms of treatment.

 

Step one. Dose h2o2 at the reccomended rate of 1ml/10Gallons. My tank is 65 gallons, meaning that reccomended dose is 6.5ml. I am going to dose 4ml In the morning when i leave for work and 4ml when i go to bed (yes im aware its a little above the 1ml/10g, others have been okay doing .5ml/Gallon so i think this amount will work for me.)

Step two. Continue to turkey baste the rocks and low flow areas of the sand bed atleast until i get the mp40 in there (supposed to pick one up tonight)

Step three. Use the DIY Coral snow as outlined by JMB in another thread. I am using it daily (i personally feel that it helps get the dinos skimmed out or trapped in the filter socks much better than without it.)

Step four. Lights out for 72 hours. I have all the lights on the tank shut off and they will stay shut off for 3 days. I am not covering the tank with a tarp or anything but there is extremely little light bleed into our apartment where the tank is at. Not to mention that the H2o2 and skimming and filter socks are the main method of removing this pest, the lights out are primarilly to help reduce the total amount that needs to be removed.

Step five. On day 3 of no lights i am going to change out the carbon in the reactor. I know how toxic the dinos are and im sure the amount of death from them and other algea will exhaust the carbon pretty quickly.

 

 

Things i found im not supposed to do during treatment:

No waterchanges

No carbon dosing
No turning lights on

 

I plan on doing the peroxide for 10 days at 4ml in the morning and 4ml at night. Im hoping by day 6 there are no signs of them in the system anymore.

 

I will try to add progress pictures once the lights are back on and let you all know how it goes.

 

Just for reference my stock list includes a couple gobies, a clown, a rabbit (temporary for a friend still) a fireshrimp and pistol shrimp, 2 bta's, zoas, shrooms, rics, torch, hammers, and various acro, stylo and birdsnest. I will let you know if i see any adverse effects from the lights out or from the h2o2 dosing.

[Muraki]

Keep us updated on how it works. Been slowly battling myself and winning. I spot siphon it out into a filter sock that drains back into my sump. That way I can clean out the filter sock after removing it all from my rocks. Seems to be helping a lot. I've also reduced feeding some. It has completely disappeared from my sump as well with reduction of the light schedule from 8-12 hours to 4 hours. So all that is left is my display. I wish I can does H2O2, but I don't for see my macro fairing to well with it.

 

Keep at it. You will win this battle.

[davy jones]

Keep us updated on how it works. Been slowly battling myself and winning. I spot siphon it out into a filter sock that drains back into my sump. That way I can clean out the filter sock after removing it all from my rocks. Seems to be helping a lot. I've also reduced feeding some. It has completely disappeared from my sump as well with reduction of the light schedule from 8-12 hours to 4 hours. So all that is left is my display. I wish I can does H2O2, but I don't for see my macro fairing to well with it.

 

Keep at it. You will win this battle.

 

Ive heard mixed reports with the macros and h2o2, personally like you i wouldnt try it until its a last resort.

 

Luckily for me i dont have a large outbreak like ive seen on some tanks, likely a 3 day blackout period would be all thats needed but i want the shit gone lol

 

My mindset is if i throw everything i can at it all at once it will be overwhelmed and eradicated guess we will see how my theory works out lol

[davy jones]

Well at this point im not even sure if it is dinos or a type of brown cyano or something else entirely... the description of dinos fit what i have but photos do not..

 

The pictures appear to be closer to cyano.. But it doesnt behave like cyano when it comes time to siphon the stuff out, it doesnt stay together as a nice matte it just kind of disentegrates into nothingness then is back again later..

 

at this point im gonna only do a 2 day black out, and continue dosing h2o2 as well as my coral snow and the other methods i listed above, but im going to prepare water for a 25% waterchange tomorrow..

 

My thoughts are: if its cyano the h2o2 and lights out really isnt gonna accomplish anything. the waterchange will however especially with the added flow of the mp40 im installing tonight.

 

If it is dinos, they will be back with a vengance after doing the waterchange.. but h2o2 and black outs will kill them.

 

Maybe im just an idiot thats gonna not solve either of these issues. This is all rather frustrating.

[jedimasterben]

It is dinoflagellates. Seems to be Ostreopsis.

 

7 day blackout, not two. Keep dosing peroxide several times daily, I've done up to ~5mL per gallon per day in total with no ill effects in corals beyond the damage the dinoflagellates themselves did.

 

This will only hold them back for a short while. They'll come back when you least expect them. I would consider removing your sandbed and getting a UV sterilizer and a Philips UV lamp.

[davy jones]

It is dinoflagellates. Seems to be Ostreopsis.

 

7 day blackout, not two. Keep dosing peroxide several times daily, I've done up to ~5mL per gallon per day in total with no ill effects in corals beyond the damage the dinoflagellates themselves did.

 

This will only hold them back for a short while. They'll come back when you least expect them. I would consider removing your sandbed and getting a UV sterilizer and a Philips UV lamp.

 

*sigh* my tank was looking so nice too

 

How do dinos get introduced into a tank?

 

I dont really have room for a uv sterilizer in my sump, it literally has no space.

 

How does peroxide effect shrimp and anemones?

[jedimasterben]

UV sterilizers are in-line equipment, they do not need to go near the sump.

 

 

peroxide will immediately kill any Lysmata shrimp and will negatively effect almost all hosting anemones (Heteractis, Entacmea, Stichodactyla). Maxi mini and rock flower anemones are unaffected.

[davy jones]

As always thanks for the help! I will try and update as i progress

[davy jones]

36 hours into the black out period.

MP40 added last night

Dosing continued of h2o2.

Bumped dosing up a little from 4ml 2x a day to 4ml 3x a day

Skimmer still skimming wet

Turkey basting all the rocks and areas of typical heavy build up a couple times an evening when im home

Filter socks rinsed out daily

DIY coral Snow dosed after each turkey baste of the rocks and once every morning (its possible it does absolutely nothing. But since its DIY and i have enough of it to last me years i dont care. It makes me feel better. Sue me.)

 

Current observations..

The actual algea i had growing seems to be turing white.. which is good.

The growth of the dinos/cyano/whateverthehellisruiningmyliferightnow has slowed down tremendously

as far as i can tell im still getting pe from my sps corals, and so far none of them seem to have any color loss (dont have lights on, cant really tell)

zoas have improved tremendously

the 2 rbta's are on the move searching for light.. I may try to supplement them with a spot feed of mysis or a silverside. (color wise they actually look very good surprisingly)

Fire shrimp still happy as can be.. (i live in a small apartment and dont have room for a QT.. Im hoping him and the anemones do okay during the treatment..

Mushrooms and rics look closed up more than usual, possible due to increased flow and lack of light though.

Fish are very active and looking good.

[Tamberav]

Dinoflagellates are microscopic single celled organisms that are photosynthetic. They are very widespread in nature. There are over 2,000 different types of Dinoflagellates that can be found in different marine and fresh water environments.

 

I guess with so many species... the question is... how would they not get in our tanks?

 

 

I had luck in the past with multiple blackouts to weaken them and raising pH.

 

 

How do dinos get introduced into a tank?

[jedimasterben]

Keep in mind that zooxanthellae are dinoflagellates, and there are many species that are cold water, deep water, etc, that could never survive in our tanks, and then the nearly 2000 species that are not toxic and won't bloom. There are only a small handful of 'problem' dinoflagellates.

[gulfsurfer101]

I was going to start a punkrock band way back in the day called The Dinoflagellates, because they're so tuff and annoying and practically nothing can kill them, and after dealing with them they'll most likely drive you insane!

[Tamberav]

Keep in mind that zooxanthellae are dinoflagellates, and there are many species that are cold water, deep water, etc, that could never survive in our tanks, and then the nearly 2000 species that are not toxic and won't bloom. There are only a small handful of 'problem' dinoflagellates.

 

My post includes freshwater too. It wasn't mean to be an overly serious observation.

 

In other thoughts, I see tons of dino posts now and I don't remember seeing them many years ago when I got in the hobby.

[Muraki]

Fingers crossed still. My situation hasn't changed much. But I began the blackout of my display tank today, and will go for about 4-5 days. Then I'll probably do a 50% water change. Have any pictures to go along with the progress? Thinking of it, I need to take a few. My Dino problem isn't as serious as yours, but I have had it for a few months now. I'll probably end up following some of Jedi's recommendations and get a UV sterilizer too.

[Bearnadian]

I've had the very same thing. I think it's a type of cyano like Calothrix Cyano Algae. Anyway, chemiclean was the only thing I could do to get rid of it. What a mess. Be ready to change your filter sock often and increase your flow during treat,met as the oxygenation makes the stuff float to the top and right down to the sump. One I treated, my macro algea blew up for about a two week time. Everything is finally normal.

[jedimasterben]

Do not do a water change under any circumstances. Run carbon, and lots of it.

[davy jones]

I'll upload pics tomorrow. I did 4 days black out, and just blue led's for 2 days and dosed well over the recommendEd h2o2 amount daily. So far it looks good but I will not say I've won until it's been a month or more.

 

Everything in the tank managed well. So far my green slimer isn't as green although the polyps are huge and green as ever. My Forrest fire digi isn't showing as much PE but overall looks okay. Fingers crossed!

[Muraki]

Do not do a water change under any circumstances. Run carbon, and lots of it.

 

Will take the advice, but why is this? Just curious.

Thanks!

[jedimasterben]

 

Will take the advice, but why is this? Just curious.

Thanks!

They bloom most after a water change. No one knows why.

[davy jones]

Rics doing nicely again finally

Nems looking better than they did in a LOOOONG time.

SPS rock

AAAAND FTS.

Im not counting my chickens yet. I dont have very good luck in life. But for now im hoping the inhabitants get a month or so respite before the shit comes back.

[scruggyj]

Amy update. How is your tank holding up?