I'm really curious about realistic stocking densities

[Deadhand]

Hello,

 

So I started a 29g tank w/ 10g sump almost a year ago and haven't done much with it since. I just recently installed a new, baffled sump for better filtration. I got rid of my crappy 460nm actinics (are they crap for photosynthesis?) and got 10k/420nm daylight/actinics. I modded my custom canister filter. And through it all I got the itch to really get serious about keeping coral. I'm already planning my kalk doser as I decided to go with kalkwasser over some of the other methods of Ca + alk dosing.

 

What I'm really curious about is realistic stocking densities. I see beautiful tanks that are teeming with coral and fish and I can only guess it's that the owner does a great job with water parameters. If you look at the photos, you will notice I've opted for a minimalist hardscape that I want to cover in softies and LPS. Maybe even an anemone for some clowns. Ignore my heinous algae problem.

 

Well, Imgur isn't working so trust me when I say I have a sweet sump and canister filter with 2kg of ceramic media (4.4lbs). I even consider making a fluidized sand filter if I must.

 

I'm no genius but basic math makes sense to me, if there is adequate biological filtration in a system, frequent water changes, skimming, dosing, etc; does it matter what the water volume of a system is in relation to stock? I mean, theoretically, of course. I'm not advocating for cruel and unusual cramping of animals. But I hear "2 inches of fish for ever 10g" which sounds absurd if the water is pristine.

 

My central question is, what, really, are my upper limits concerning creating a wonderful display of fish and coral? I'm talking about a display that showcases beautiful, happy fish and coral in abundance. I'm not a fan of sparse displays, but I am a noob at fish keeping.

[Nano sapiens]

Corals do not produce much free floating waste. It is more accurate to say that much of the coral waste is used by it's zooxanthellae (algae) and visa-versa.

 

Fish can, and often do, produce a good deal of waste. This can be seen as a negative or a positive, depending on the type of system. A stable, healthy and well maintained reef tank can support quite a decent bioload of fish.

 

As an example, my 12g (~10g actual water volume) has supported two adult Ocellaris Clownfish with ease for years and a bunch of different types of coral. This little system has no mechanical or chemical filtration, skimmer, etc. (just live rock and live sand). With simple maintenance techniques I regularly see less than 0.5 nitrate (NO3) and 'undetectable' inorganic phospahte (PO4)

 

What is most important is how one balances the inputs of food with the removal of waste to keep the system from either becoming too clean, or more commonly, too dirty, to support coral health.

[Deadhand]

Very insightful. Thanks. So with that logic, I have about 30-35g of water volume, one could support 6 fish in a system similar if it were well maintained. Not to mention the plethora of coral. Am I correct?

[HarryPotter]

Very insightful. Thanks. So with that logic, I have about 30-35g of water volume, one could support 6 fish in a system similar if it were well maintained. Not to mention the plethora of coral. Am I correct?

Six fish sounds okay as long as you are careful with WHICH fish. Some fish need more room than others or are "dirtier" in general.

 

In a 35 gallon (volume) 6 sounds like a lot in my opinion but either way don't add them at once. Maybe 2 clowns, a wrasse, and a bottom feeder of sorts.

[Nano sapiens]

Depends on the type of fish, too. Messy fish like Clownfish would have much more waste that something like a Firefish, even if their lengths were similar.

 

If I were you, I'd take a close look at any TOTMs that are similar in size to yours and see how many, and what type, of fish they stock. Good starting point:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/featured

[Deadhand]

So I have an Ocellaris, Lawnmower Blenny, Yellow Watchman Goby and a Tiger Pistol shrimp currently. Oh, and a Serpent Star plus a few random CUC inverts. I'll definitely take a look at the featured tanks to see what I can glean. My goal is to understand WHY things work and don't work in this hobby rather than follow a rule set.

 

I don't really want to know how many fish I should have but I want to know how many fish can live a healthy life in a given system and WHY. I understand it's mostly waste and space requirements for the species that will determine what I should and shouldn't keep.

 

For example, in plainrt's 34g reef, he has 4 fish. One of which is a fuzzy dwarf lionfish! I always was told you need 50g for these fish. WHY can he do this even though it's against nearly all advice?

 

I'm eager to learn because I want to know how to create a beautiful display in my home that I, my wife and guests can enjoy.

[Nano sapiens]

The tank sizes given depend on the source. Consider them as a guide to what has worked best in the past, not an absolute.

 

In this hobby, it's actually best not to think in absolutes because inevitably someone will come along and shatter what you thought you 'absolutely' knew

 

A lot of what reef keepers do is research and then apply what they have gleamed to their own system. This works quite well. Just remember that no two systems are completely alike since there are so many variables (known and unknown) in a living reef system. Some tweaking here-and-there is typically required to produce the desired outcome.

 

Also, be skeptical of information (especially from the Web) and compare against successful tank systems that have been running for at least a few years.

[Deadhand]

It seems to me that I really need to look at what others are doing and ask why they think it works for them and apply my own experience and just try it. While we're on the subject of stocking, and since I'm a little lazy, what are your recommendations for stocking rates for coral? If they produce little "waste" is it safe to add a coral each week? Or rather, would it be better to stock fish first then coral second after the tank is under bioload?

[HarryPotter]

It seems to me that I really need to look at what others are doing and ask why they think it works for them and apply my own experience and just try it. While we're on the subject of stocking, and since I'm a little lazy, what are your recommendations for stocking rates for coral? If they produce little "waste" is it safe to add a coral each week? Or rather, would it be better to stock fish first then coral second after the tank is under bioload?

Depends on the corals IMO. For instance corals that do not need to be spot fed like Zoanthids and Mushrooms will not add significant bioload. Corals that need spot feeding like Dendros and some LPS will have a greater effect.

[Deadhand]

I see. Well, I'm going to keep on keeping on and move forward with my water param maintenance so that I can stock LPS. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. I appreciate it guys. Who knows, maybe I'll be a TOTM winner next year

 

Cheers,

Jared

[Nano sapiens]

It seems to me that I really need to look at what others are doing and ask why they think it works for them and apply my own experience and just try it. While we're on the subject of stocking, and since I'm a little lazy, what are your recommendations for stocking rates for coral? If they produce little "waste" is it safe to add a coral each week? Or rather, would it be better to stock fish first then coral second after the tank is under bioload?

 

Your tank has been up for a while, but first I'd clear out that algae and get your params in line. Corals are adapted to utilizing fish waste so it's good to have them together in the system.

I see. Well, I'm going to keep on keeping on and move forward with my water param maintenance so that I can stock LPS. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. I appreciate it guys. Who knows, maybe I'll be a TOTM winner next year

 

Cheers,

Jared

 

Beat me to it!

 

Who knows, keep at it and you may indeed be TOTM.

[shawnd08]

I have a 15 gallon that has been running g for 7 months now. I have around 25-30 frags including sps, lps, a carpet nem, and a gorgonian. I also have 4 fish, 2 Ocellaris, tailspot blenny and an orange spot shrimp goby and pistol shrimp pair. I run an AC70 with Chemipure-Blue, filter floss changed everyother day, and a skimmer that runs one day on one day off. I change 1 and a half gallons weekly and feed LRF every other day. I also have a decent section of dragons breath and caulerpa for macros. I don't over think anything and stay on top of maintenance. From my experience so far the less complicated the better. Most people would suggest I not have 4 fish but I'm not sure what they base that on if they have never tried it themselfs. Just because it won't work for one tank dosnt me it won't work in any tank. There are to many factors to say it's not possible. Don't you think the same was said when some one had the idea to keep saltwater fish and corals in a glass box in their living room ?

[Deadhand]

So, really, what I'm hearing is that "yeah pretty much anything works if you cater a solution to the problems you create". To heck with it, I'll see if I can't pull off some of the things I want to try.

[Tamberav]

So, really, what I'm hearing is that "yeah pretty much anything works if you cater a solution to the problems you create". To heck with it, I'll see if I can't pull off some of the things I want to try.

 

It's a crapshoot imo. Ive seen tanks stocked to the brim with fish and no problems and others with barley any fish with plenty of problems, both with good maintenance.

 

All you can really do is go slow and monitor to find out what your tank can and can't do.

 

Sometimes I just think its the microscopic war of bacteria and organisms that get to decide. All those damn unknowns...

[rosecity]

So, really, what I'm hearing is that "yeah pretty much anything works if you cater a solution to the problems you create". To heck with it, I'll see if I can't pull off some of the things I want to try.

 

I would say try what you want but go slowly. I have had my 20 gallon long running 2.5 years and it has been stocked with 7 fish the past 18 months (2 clowns, 3 chromis, 2 yellow tail damsels). Plenty of LPS, softies and 3 RBTA's (started with one after the tank first cycled and it seems to split every year or so). I have a very simple setup - I just run an AC70 with carbon and floss. RODI water. 1 gallon water change daily. Change floss daily. Change carbon once a month. Never had an issue.

 

I started with 2 clowns for 6 months, then added 3 chromis, and the last 2 damsels 3 months after that. I do use an MP10 on nutrient export mode that does not let any waste settle in the tank. A few mins after feeding time all the poop gets sucked up and caught by the floss in the AC70. If you do consistent water changes using RODI water and a halfway decent salt mix then your only concern will be will the fish get along rather than how many to stock.

[BRN]

 

I would say try what you want but go slowly. I have had my 20 gallon long running 2.5 years and it has been stocked with 7 fish the past 18 months (2 clowns, 3 chromis, 2 yellow tail damsels). Plenty of LPS, softies and 3 RBTA's (started with one after the tank first cycled and it seems to split every year or so). I have a very simple setup - I just run an AC70 with carbon and floss. RODI water. 1 gallon water change daily. Change floss daily. Change carbon once a month. Never had an issue.

 

I started with 2 clowns for 6 months, then added 3 chromis, and the last 2 damsels 3 months after that. I do use an MP10 on nutrient export mode that does not let any waste settle in the tank. A few mins after feeding time all the poop gets sucked up and caught by the floss in the AC70. If you do consistent water changes using RODI water and a halfway decent salt mix then your only concern will be will the fish get along rather than how many to stock.

 

So true +1 SOLID advice!

[xCry0x]

Orchid dottback, ywg, green clown goby, banggai cardinal and firefish in a 20g. Edit- and skunk cleaner shrimp and pistol shrimp.

 

Have fairly heavy filtration though. Aquamaxx job 1 skimmer and aq70 with floss, carbon and chaeto. Would definitely say I am overboard with filtration..

[IronChefItaly]

Hello,

 

So I started a 29g tank w/ 10g sump almost a year ago and haven't done much with it since. I just recently installed a new, baffled sump for better filtration. I got rid of my crappy 460nm actinics (are they crap for photosynthesis?) and got 10k/420nm daylight/actinics. I modded my custom canister filter. And through it all I got the itch to really get serious about keeping coral. I'm already planning my kalk doser as I decided to go with kalkwasser over some of the other methods of Ca + alk dosing.

 

What I'm really curious about is realistic stocking densities. I see beautiful tanks that are teeming with coral and fish and I can only guess it's that the owner does a great job with water parameters. If you look at the photos, you will notice I've opted for a minimalist hardscape that I want to cover in softies and LPS. Maybe even an anemone for some clowns. Ignore my heinous algae problem.

 

Well, Imgur isn't working so trust me when I say I have a sweet sump and canister filter with 2kg of ceramic media (4.4lbs). I even consider making a fluidized sand filter if I must.

 

I'm no genius but basic math makes sense to me, if there is adequate biological filtration in a system, frequent water changes, skimming, dosing, etc; does it matter what the water volume of a system is in relation to stock? I mean, theoretically, of course. I'm not advocating for cruel and unusual cramping of animals. But I hear "2 inches of fish for ever 10g" which sounds absurd if the water is pristine.

 

My central question is, what, really, are my upper limits concerning creating a wonderful display of fish and coral? I'm talking about a display that showcases beautiful, happy fish and coral in abundance. I'm not a fan of sparse displays, but I am a noob at fish keeping.

 

 

I'm in a similar position but a little further along. Below is my own opinion of factors ordered in decreasing contribution to maximizing bio load.

 

· not overfeeding, avoid fish that are big eaters like anthias

· good skimmer

· adequate filtration (sponges and floss, I change / clean mine out every 2-3 days)

· surface area (sand bed, live rock, porous media - make sure you clean all media within your canister weekly)

· chemical filtration (gfo, carbon, etc)

· refugium

 

It is often that people run out of open space / territory for their fish before they hit their bioload capacity given they have a proper set up and maintenance routine. Stocking slow is also a key factor here as well.

[ReefJar]

Don't forget consistent water changes