Jump to content
Top Shelf Aquatics

So I think it's time to add Lime!


ajmckay

Recommended Posts

Finished my DIY LED in Feb 2013 and I'm feeling the need to tinker again.

Here are the specs currently (build thread in sig):

 

- 16 XT-E Royal Blue Solderless
- 8 XT-E Neutral White (4500K) Solderless
- 2 True Violet (405nm) Solderless
- 6 Hyper Violet (430nm) Solderless
- 4 Deep Red (660nm) Solderless
- 4 Turquoise (Cyan) (495nm) Solderless
- 6 XP-E Cool Blue (465-485nm) Solderless
Total: 46 LEDs (divided into 2 clusters of 23)

 

Royal blue and neutral white channels both operate at 1000mA @ 55% power and the violet and OCW (red/cyan/cool blue) channels both operate at 700mA @ 30% & 45% respectively. My goal with adding lime is to gain a little bit more brightness to the eye because eventually I want to put a diffuser on it - maybe sandblast or spray frost the splash guard.

 

So my questions:

1) I plan to add the limes to the white channel. How many should I get do you think?

 

2) If I get Luxeon ES, they are 2.9v and my neutral white are 3.15v. Any issues ? Or just stay below 48v on string?

 

3) Is there a trick for placement? See pic below of a cluster.

 

4) Any other changes I should make while I'm at it?

 

phone pic

20151111_194915_zpsvmzppuiv.jpg

 

IMG_1910_zps5d75ab07.jpg

Link to comment
Marc.The.Shark

I'd switch half the Neutral Whites to Warm White. Ditch the Red altogether (the WW will give you enuf) & add 2 or 3 Limes per cluster. Best thing I did was add Lime, made a Huge difference in brightness/crispness.

 

I also have a diffuser. Ordered the self stick stuff from this place online. Someone on RC did PAR readings on it & it only lost like 5-7% at the bottom of the tank. Got a big roll & it was very inexpensive. I can dig out the shipping tube if you're interested in where I got it.

Link to comment

meme-face-thinking.jpg

 

That doesn't seem very hard at all...

 

So:

Channel 1 = 16x RB's

Channel 2 = 4x 4500k NW, 4x 3250K WW (or 4x 2700K WW?), & 2-3x lime (14x total)

Channel 3 = 4x Hyper violet

Channel 4 = 4x cyan, & 6x cool blue

 

Would any imbalance be created by removing the red that would need to be corrected in channel 4?

 

Finally, what's the deal with Bridgelux vero? More specifically is there a visual benefit to adding a high (90 or 97) CRI white into an LED cluster?

Link to comment
jedimasterben

What controller and drivers and such do you have? I personally would run the white and lime on separate channels.

 

 

 

If you are considering the Bridgelux Vero as an option, then do it. There is nothing like them, even if you run a more blue shifted light most of the time, they pack a visual punch that is just unmatched.

Link to comment

^ all of that :)

And a bag of chips

I'm looking to remove the red from my par bulbs, can I put limes in there or will they not work right seeing as it only pushes a single watt or so through it.

 

 

 

 

Sorry to hijack your thread, last question I'll ask.

Link to comment
jedimasterben

And a bag of chips

I'm looking to remove the red from my par bulbs, can I put limes in there or will they not work right seeing as it only pushes a single watt or so through it.

 

 

 

 

Sorry to hijack your thread, last question I'll ask.

If the solder mask is the same, then yes, but 99% of PAR bulbs use generic 3w chips, so you can't swap it to a different brand.
Link to comment

Curious how you plan on putting a Rebel LED in your PAR lamp when they are going to be using a generic Chinese LED package or a 3535 style package (like Cree XP series). Neither are footprint compatible with the Rebel.

 

And the current won't be an issue. I'd be more concerned about how you are going to make it fit.

Link to comment

I've taken the diode off of bridglux LEDs. So off the star, then soldered onto the board where the same type and way of soldering onto par bulbs is done. if I can get that type of led, I could and would change one diode out. I've done it before, but that was a RB replacing a W. I need this type of led star/chip.

22785937759_41dfbbf204_o.jpg20151120-132847-1 by -Nanofreak79-

Link to comment
jedimasterben

Yeah, lime is a rebel ES chip that has a specific package and the board would have to be designed to be universal, and those are rare.

Link to comment

Yeah, lime is a rebel ES chip that has a specific package and the board would have to be designed to be universal, and those are rare.

Edited my post!

Link to comment

Controller is an arduino running the BoostLED typhon sketch.

 

I might be able to modify the code to add another channel? I'm pretty sure I have pins available and I have another LDD just not sure if it's 700 or 1000ma but looks like the lime can handle either.

 

So:

Channel 1 = 16x RB's

Channel 2 = 4x 4500k NW, 4x 3250K WW (or 4x 2700K WW?)

Channel 3 = 6x lime

Channel 4 = 4x Hyper violet

Channel 5 = 4x cyan, & 6x cool blue

 

If I go for standard 3W diodes, should I go for the 2700K whites vs. the 3250K ones to pair with my existing 4500K's?

 

As for the Vero, it sounds cool. Being that having a quality high CRI white is so important it's definitely something to consider since I'm moving things around. I'm not completely sure about the ratios though. Would a single Vero 18 @ 700ma per cluster be enough to switch out all the whites for? Or maybe just swap out the 4 warm whites and replace with a smaller vero 10 or vero 13 per cluster...

 

Hmmm... This is going to take some time to sink in I can tell. But I don't want to push play until I've fully investigated this vero engine. I would need separate power supplies for them though since they consume so much voltage.

Link to comment
jedimasterben

8x white XT-E at 1A are equivalent in flux to a single Vero 10 4000K 90CRI at 700mA.

 

For two clusters, use two of them on aa pair of 350mA LDD. :)

Link to comment

I'm reading some more threads on the Vero and it seems to be popular with growers of a certain "herb" hahaha.... Well, and FW tanks.

 

To drive the Vero10's I may just use 700mA LDDs because I have one on hand - and I don't see 350mA ones.

 

Revised:

Channel 1 = 16x RB's

Channel 2 = 2x Bridgelux Vero 10 4000K. Or should I be looking at 2700K/3250K?

Channel 3 = 6x lime

Channel 4 = 4x Hyper violet

Channel 5 = 4x cyan, & 6x cool blue

All run off a 250w PSU and 700mA LDD except RB which is 1000mA.

 

Some questions:

1) Which Vero 10 should I be looking at? I see a BXRC-40G1000-B-23 that's 26.5v and a BXRC-40G1000-B-03 that's 24.9v. Either way I suppose I need 2 LDD's but I haven't seen any Vero 10 with higher than a "g" 90 CRI. Is one of those links a good one for this application?

2) This may sound dumb but if I want to run 2 LDD off the same channel can I just combine both leads to a single 5v pwm signal from the arduino?

3) If I can't add another channel - is there a reasonable 4 channel arrangement?

Link to comment
jedimasterben

The BXRC-40G1000-B-23 is the one you want, it is the newer model with increased flux.

 

350mA LDD: http://www.alliedelec.com/mean-well-usa-ldd-350h/70345761/ IF, and ONLY if you are running both Vero on the same heatsink in the same cluster setup, then you can run them in parallel on a single LDD. This will cut current in half, so on a 700mA LDD, each will get 350mA (9.3 watts, about a thousand lumens, each).

 

Yes, just run a wire from one dimming input terminal to the other, most Arduinos give like 5-20mA on their dimming pins, so that is enough to run several hundred LDD per pin.

Link to comment

The BXRC-40G1000-B-23 is the one you want, it is the newer model with increased flux.

 

350mA LDD: http://www.alliedelec.com/mean-well-usa-ldd-350h/70345761/ IF, and ONLY if you are running both Vero on the same heatsink in the same cluster setup, then you can run them in parallel on a single LDD. This will cut current in half, so on a 700mA LDD, each will get 350mA (9.3 watts, about a thousand lumens, each).

 

Yes, just run a wire from one dimming input terminal to the other, most Arduinos give like 5-20mA on their dimming pins, so that is enough to run several hundred LDD per pin.

 

Haha that's so massive!! Ben & all - really appreciate your sharing of knowledge on the topic. It would definitely suck and be a lot more work if I were planning this on my own without your help. If I recall you and evil and others also helped me put it together initially almost 3 years ago!!

 

So here's how I would arrange things if I switched whites. Spacing between LEDs would be minimized I just drew it with the LEDs evenly spaced for ease of viewing.

post-39800-0-24010700-1448301900_thumb.jpg

 

So - if I can put both vero on one LDD that would be pretty awesome... Though I don't fully understand your cautionary statement so I'm a little hesitant to try that. The link you provided had them for cheaper than I was expecting so if I have enough positions open in my wiring terminal I might just buy 2 350mA drivers. What's the reason they have to be on the same heatsink as part of the same cluster setup?

 

Finally - I assume the thermal management will be similar to equivalent CREE watts? Total I'm removing approximately 34w of leds (8x neutral white at 1000mA & 4 red @ 700mA) and replacing with about 36w - assuming I run the vero at up to 350mA. It will be more concentrated though with the vero... I suppose I'll just watch it and if it feels too warm I initially got a really low profile, low RPM 200mm PC case fan to cool the whole thing so I could easily attach that to the surface - would just make the fixture a little thicker.

Link to comment
jedimasterben

So - if I can put both vero on one LDD that would be pretty awesome... Though I don't fully understand your cautionary statement so I'm a little hesitant to try that. The link you provided had them for cheaper than I was expecting so if I have enough positions open in my wiring terminal I might just buy 2 350mA drivers. What's the reason they have to be on the same heatsink as part of the same cluster setup?

The reason for the precaution with running in parallel and keeping on the same heatsink and cluster setup is to keep both LEDs at the same temperature.

 

As an LED heats up, its forward voltage drops, which in series is not a problem, as the driver just adjusts its output and it's done.

 

In parallel, it works differently. Current gets split evenly across the strings (so long as forward voltage is identical) and both LEDs start to heat up. If the two are on separate heatsinks and one has, for instance, slightly better cooling, then one of the two LEDs would be hotter. Its forward voltage would drop, and then the LED will start to pull more current than the other one. As it does this, it continues to get hotter as it has more current flowing through it, causing the voltage to drop more, and it starts to pull more current, etc etc. This is called thermal runaway. In the end, you'll end up with one LED with almost all of the output and significantly brighter and the other having almost none and being very dim.

 

 

As for the heat, watts are watts. :)

Link to comment

I learned something new today, thanks! I think I fit the conditions to be able to run these 2 in parallel since they will be on the same heatsink and each surrounded by identical LEDs. The only issue I can think of now is that I would need to run an extra length of wire between the 2 clusters if I ran them in parallel which would be a pain but I can think of worse situations.

 

As for the heat, watts are watts. :)

 

Also glad to hear that - would really like to keep this thing fanless if possible (realizing it's a massive chunk of aluminum - the HeatsinkUSA 8.4" profile t-slot). The fan wouldn't be that big of a deal though if I find it gets too hot around the Vero.

 

Speaking of Vero, I found another one - BXRC-40A1001-B-23. It's the "Décor" series and at least per the Bridgelux specifications it's 93 CRI. For some reason Digikey lists it as 80 CRI... BUT, it's about $7 more per LED so is it worth almost 3x the cost for the small gain in CRI compared the BXRC-40G1000-B-23?

 

Dude, I'm excited about this - might be able to start the upgrade next week.

 

At this juncture my biggest issue Is adding the 5th channel. I used standard typhon code but I modified a few things (like moving the timers by 10 minutes per press vs. 1 min per press) and I'm afraid that if I screw something up my tank won't have lights for a week (well, it will have 100% but I don't want to fry anything yet ;)

 

So if I needed to combine channels, can anyone think of a good way to re-arrange? I can have either 2x 1000mA and 2x 700mA channels or 1x 1000mA channel and 3x 700mA channels.

Link to comment

Think I'm going to just order the BXRC-40G1000-B-23 tomorrow and the limes too. I'll mess with the channels after I get the stuff and do the assembly first.

 

If anyone has suggestions on the channels I'm still going to try the 5 channel approach but I may need a backup in case that fails.

Link to comment

So I finally have some Lime and some Vero 10 coming my way!

 

I ended up replacing my LDD's as well... It's hard to find wired LDD's and I just couldn't stand paying $13 for one (shipping) so I purchased the non-wired versions for about 2x the cost but I'll use the wired ones for my future FW build. For now I need to get a PCB to mount them. So that's my next step.

Link to comment

good deal, the Jedi Master turned me on to the vero's and lime, now I can't stop. You are going to like them. looking forward to seeing the before and after pics

Link to comment

good deal, the Jedi Master turned me on to the vero's and lime, now I can't stop. You are going to like them. looking forward to seeing the before and after pics

Oh, there will be pics!!! It may even be enough to prompt me to make a tank thread :)

 

I'm pretty excited to update my light. Not that I don't like it now - but it's been 3 years so time to update.

Link to comment

Yay! today I received my 2 Veros! Super sexy - and Digikey did almost too good a job packing them up... My wife cracked up when she saw me spend 3 minutes unwrapping layers of packaging to get to the LEDs that are barely the size of a nickel each.

 

In other news, it's kind of a bummer but it appears StevesLeds is overwhelmed with orders so they STILL haven't shipped my Limes and it's been a work week (ordered Monday). Hopefully they can send them out early next week... I realized today that I never got a shipping notification so I sent over an inquiry though email. Jeff was quick to respond, however, and admitted that they're dealing with a larger volume of orders.

 

On a side note does anyone know how I can test these Vero out ? I don't have anything that's 26.5v @ any current rating... Hmmm...

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recommended Discussions

×
×
  • Create New...