Cyano Problem with a Solution?

[pewpewkittah]

So my tank is about 8 months old. I've had a Cyanobacteria problem for about a month and a half now. It completely covers all areas of my sand. I have a lot of flow in my tank, and it doesn't seem to hinder it, it actually grows worse in high flow areas. To begin with, it was all over my rocks as well and daily I had to blow it off to keep my corals from getting irritated. Now it barely grows on rocks, just limited strings with bubbles in it.

 

Since the beginning, I have done hours of research and tried various ways to reverse its curse on my tank and I am getting really frustrated at this point.

 

Considering the outbreak I have, all of my corals are doing fabulous.

 

I'll start with posting my known parameters and a FTS.

 

I had just blown the sand this morning, this isn't even a full days worth of growth.

 

Ammonia: 0

Nitrites: 0

Nitrates: 0

Alkalinity: 9-11

Salinity: 1.025-1.026 (No ATO)

Temperature: 78-79F

Phosphates: 0 (was 0.25ppm)

 

Here's what I've tried...

• Using PhosGuard, changing it every 3-4 days as recommended. Did this for 2 weeks, no change in Cyano growth.
• Three day complete blackout period followed by 30% water changes every two days for a week. Most of it died off, but by the end of the 4th day of the lights being on, I was already seeing it across the bottom of my tank.
• Reducing lighting period to 6 hours a day, 50% intensity on the daylight LEDs.
• Controlling my feeding to every 2-3 days. Feeding mysis shrimp that have been rinsed off with RO water. I feed with a turkey baster and the circulation pumps off. I feed the corals once per week.
• Went from 30% water changes weekly to 50% weekly.
• Tried daily siphoning of cyano from the sand, even taking a thin layer of sand daily with no improvements.

 

My current maintenance consists of...

• Cleaning off glass, stirring the sand up and blowing off rocks every 1-2 days.
• Changing filter floss every 3 days.
• 50% water changes weekly, being sure to match temperature and salinity. Before I perform the water change, I blow up all the cyano and try to net or suck most of it out.

 

Solution?!

 

I got sand from a friends existing tank, so I am guessing that the sand might be a bit old. At this point, I think ripping out my rocks, coral, fish and 95% of the water and replacing the sand with a fresh bed of Aragonite. However, I am hesitant because I do not want to cause a mini-cycle.

 

What would be the best step to take at this point?

 

 

Thank you in advance!

[xCry0x]

Chemiclean worked great for me: http://www.amazon.com/Boyd-Enterprises-CC02-Chemi-Clean-2/dp/B00025YRJS

 

Didn't see any averse affects on my tank and treated it something like 6+ months ago. No Red slime since.

[pewpewkittah]

Chemiclean worked great for me: http://www.amazon.com/Boyd-Enterprises-CC02-Chemi-Clean-2/dp/B00025YRJS

 

Didn't see any averse affects on my tank and treated it something like 6+ months ago. No Red slime since.

 

I may try it. But I kind of try to shy away from chemicals, because this removes the symptom, not the source of the problem.

 

What kind of corals do you have in your tank?

[xCry0x]

Everyone spits that out "Source of the problem" line out.

 

What I remember from research was that Cyano was a bacteria, and I believe a photosynthetic bacteria.

 

My tank is ...was... (Just found out I have a lovely monti eating nudibranch infestation destroying all my montipora) a full mixed reef.

 

Nutrient levels were all low, was running gfo through a reactor and I wet skim with an aquamaxx hob-1.

 

Cyano shows up with light, goes away with light.

Chemiclean removed it and it didn't come back.

 

So say all you want about "not getting the source of the problem"... if I didn't get the source it would have come back.. it didn't.

 

I actually dumped the reactor and just run phosban in a bag now..so less efficient po4 removal, still no cyano.

[jedimasterben]

Do you have a skimmer? Chemiclean is a band aid at best and it does not affect several species of cyano at all.

[ajmckay]

Everyone spits that out "Source of the problem" line out.

 

What I remember from research was that Cyano was a bacteria, and I believe a photosynthetic bacteria.

 

My tank is ...was... (Just found out I have a lovely monti eating nudibranch infestation destroying all my montipora) a full mixed reef.

 

Nutrient levels were all low, was running gfo through a reactor and I wet skim with an aquamaxx hob-1.

 

Cyano shows up with light, goes away with light.

Chemiclean removed it and it didn't come back.

 

So say all you want about "not getting the source of the problem"... if I didn't get the source it would have come back.. it didn't.

 

I actually dumped the reactor and just run phosban in a bag now..so less efficient po4 removal, still no cyano.

 

Interesting perspective on things.. Sucks about the nudis

 

So I think that sometimes the "source" of the problem is not quite as tangible as we would like. In other words sometimes we have cyano and we're doing everything right as far as we know. I have the same issue pretty much - It's been the same for several months and doesn't get worse or better it seems despite measures being taken. I'm all about finding the source of the problem - to me it's fun using deductive reasoning. But I don't just throw solutions at a tank until something works. A plan really is important.

 

So back to what I was saying about the source of the problem - I think it's entirely possible that the cause and the effect feed off each other, and all that is needed is a break in the cycle. Regarding chemiclean or other red slime removers, I think that they can provide enough of a disruption that other processes are able to step in. So for example you dose chemiclean, the cyano is partially or wholly killed off. t's possible an opportunity opens to another process. For example If you have a macroalgae or even some corals - they could use the excess nutrients and from that point on effectively out compete the cyano.

 

I might be totally off base, but makes sense to me at least... Things out-compete each other all the time in our tanks.

[brandon429]

no chem option for sure to work:

 

hand remove/clean/siphon all of it out.

 

install turbo twist uv sterilizer

 

doesn't come back. don't alter nutrients in the tank the corals are happy. Sandbeds have direct implications for cyano covering them, they are a place we can't eject detritus from, and it breaks down nicely as moneran fuel.

 

Cyano is an invader that gets in every reef tank, all the time, all day long from the outside, they are world travelers in marine and fw as well. expect them, and intercept their water transition phase w UV

 

nobody says you have to run it until its needed, nice light cheat it is, cyano are directly susceptible to uv in the way I mentioned where you remove it all first.

 

*send uv unit back to amazon in 30 days if you don't like

 

cyano will respond to meds, flow adjusts in some tanks and not others, po4 reduction in most, or just simple focused removal and detritus prevention although that takes lots of repeated work to attain. There are specific tank invaders that UV addresses, and above all cyano is #1.

 

just an idea. you can try one free per amazon ret policy verified from the vendor before purchase

 

B

[niQo]

What kind of PO4 test do you have?

 

I have a bit of Cyano too and have had it for a couple months now. I've actually started to feed more to increase my nitrates. The assumption being that my phospates are out of balance with my nitrates according to the red field ratio. I also tried the three day blackout and I don't think that helped much.

[pewpewkittah]

Do you have a skimmer? Chemiclean is a band aid at best and it does not affect several species of cyano at all.

I do not have a skimmer, that's why I perform water changes weekly. Besides cyano, I haven't seen any reverse effects of not using a skimmer and my corals are growing at a good rate.

 

 

Interesting perspective on things.. Sucks about the nudis

 

So I think that sometimes the "source" of the problem is not quite as tangible as we would like. In other words sometimes we have cyano and we're doing everything right as far as we know. I have the same issue pretty much - It's been the same for several months and doesn't get worse or better it seems despite measures being taken. I'm all about finding the source of the problem - to me it's fun using deductive reasoning. But I don't just throw solutions at a tank until something works. A plan really is important.

 

So back to what I was saying about the source of the problem - I think it's entirely possible that the cause and the effect feed off each other, and all that is needed is a break in the cycle. Regarding chemiclean or other red slime removers, I think that they can provide enough of a disruption that other processes are able to step in. So for example you dose chemiclean, the cyano is partially or wholly killed off. t's possible an opportunity opens to another process. For example If you have a macroalgae or even some corals - they could use the excess nutrients and from that point on effectively out compete the cyano.

 

I might be totally off base, but makes sense to me at least... Things out-compete each other all the time in our tanks.

 

That's an interesting theory that makes a lot of sense... Just need to break the cycle. I may just try the Chemi-clean then.

 

no chem option for sure to work:

 

hand remove/clean/siphon all of it out.

 

install turbo twist uv sterilizer

 

doesn't come back. don't alter nutrients in the tank the corals are happy. Sandbeds have direct implications for cyano covering them, they are a place we can't eject detritus from, and it breaks down nicely as moneran fuel.

 

Cyano is an invader that gets in every reef tank, all the time, all day long from the outside, they are world travelers in marine and fw as well. expect them, and intercept their water transition phase w UV

 

nobody says you have to run it until its needed, nice light cheat it is, cyano are directly susceptible to uv in the way I mentioned where you remove it all first.

 

*send uv unit back to amazon in 30 days if you don't like

 

cyano will respond to meds, flow adjusts in some tanks and not others, po4 reduction in most, or just simple focused removal and detritus prevention although that takes lots of repeated work to attain. There are specific tank invaders that UV addresses, and above all cyano is #1.

 

just an idea. you can try one free per amazon ret policy verified from the vendor before purchase

 

B

 

I've tried manual removal.. and I forgot to mention I tried to use a UV sterilizer I had on hand paired with a canister filter for two weeks. Having it on for 48h, then off for 24h. I appreciate your response though.

What kind of PO4 test do you have?

 

I have a bit of Cyano too and have had it for a couple months now. I've actually started to feed more to increase my nitrates. The assumption being that my phospates are out of balance with my nitrates according to the red field ratio. I also tried the three day blackout and I don't think that helped much.

 

I use the API Phosphate. However, I heard that the accuracy of the API Po4 test is poor. So to double check my readings I took my water into my LFS. He uses the Red Sea Po4 test kid and the numbers were almost the same.

[xCry0x]

The accuracy of most po4 tests besides a Hanna checker is poor.

 

I bought the red sea max po4 test and it is still that "shades of off green that all look the same" type test, wish I had just spent the extra $20 on a Hanna checker originally.

 

My opinion here is just that - an opinion.

I had a lot of red slime on my sand bed.

 

I do/did 5G water changes weekly on a 20g tank -- so accounting for rocks etc that is a giant amount of water cycling weekly.

Would siphon it out weekly, it would be back in 2 days.

 

Chemical treatment worked exactly as the box said, something like 3 days it was more or less gone and that was 6 months ago.

 

I by no means jumped to the chemical treatment. I read all the threads saying "Get to the source" etc etc. I simply gave up after having my sand bed look like shit for months.

 

Bought the treatment, worked great, would use it again.

 

Now to be completely honest, having some issues again with tank. But that was because I let my ro/di filters expire and started adding top off water that wasn't fully clean .

 

The learnings with the tank are a never ending process. I re-worked my tank and got rid of my 6-line wrasse, now I have monti eating nudibranchs. Could have been a direct cause and effect there lol. Apparently dipping isn't enough for them since their eggs are bullet proof. Just glad my montipora collection isn't anything significant.

All I know is by the time I have the space for a full size tank I am going to be a dang expert at things going wrong!

[brandon429]

Not the right uv

[pewpewkittah]

The accuracy of most po4 tests besides a Hanna checker is poor.

 

I bought the red sea max po4 test and it is still that "shades of off green that all look the same" type test, wish I had just spent the extra $20 on a Hanna checker originally.

 

My opinion here is just that - an opinion.

I had a lot of red slime on my sand bed.

 

I do/did 5G water changes weekly on a 20g tank -- so accounting for rocks etc that is a giant amount of water cycling weekly.

Would siphon it out weekly, it would be back in 2 days.

 

Chemical treatment worked exactly as the box said, something like 3 days it was more or less gone and that was 6 months ago.

 

I by no means jumped to the chemical treatment. I read all the threads saying "Get to the source" etc etc. I simply gave up after having my sand bed look like shit for months.

 

Bought the treatment, worked great, would use it again.

 

Now to be completely honest, having some issues again with tank. But that was because I let my ro/di filters expire and started adding top off water that wasn't fully clean .

 

The learnings with the tank are a never ending process. I re-worked my tank and got rid of my 6-line wrasse, now I have monti eating nudibranchs. Could have been a direct cause and effect there lol. Apparently dipping isn't enough for them since their eggs are bullet proof. Just glad my montipora collection isn't anything significant.

All I know is by the time I have the space for a full size tank I am going to be a dang expert at things going wrong!

 

That might be my problem then. I've really wanted the Hannah checker, but it's a bit out of my price range at the moment.

 

I am at that point. I am so tired of seeing my sand covered in red slime and glass covered in red/brownish dust. I feel like I've tried almost everything to combat this. Yeah, this cyano outbreak might have been caused because I was about a month late changing the filters. Gotta stay on top of it!

 

I know what you mean about a constant learning process. Maintaining a complex eco-system is an amazing experience. I'm sorry you've got nudi's... I've heard horrible things about them and I'm lucky I haven't gotten anything of the sort. Knock on wood.

 

Not the right uv

 

I didn't even mention the brand I used and you say it's not the right UV?

[pewpewkittah]

Before dosing the Chemi-clean. Does anyone think this might be the result of sand from a previous tank that was up for over 2 years? I thought it would be beneficial for bacteria when starting up my tank... I am not so sure now because I've been doing reading about people changing there sand after a few years.

 

If so, would it be a bad idea to change my sand out?

[brandon429]

don't need to know the brand at all

 

 

its because it didn't work, it works when done right, all the time

 

doesn't sound like interested its ok.

[pewpewkittah]

Just thought I would throw up an update for anyone who happens to stumble across this thread.

 

The chemi-clean WORKED!! All I had to do was follow the dosing instructions twice (1 scoop with a 20% water change two days later and repeat) and its been clear from my entire tank for 2 weeks now.

 

Here is a FTS

 

[niQo]

Great! My Cyano is gone too after consistently feeding more and adding another fish!