Cycling my tank........question

[mtamorrow]

I have started a build thread already but am posting here for more to see my question.

 

I have been up and running for about a week. I used reef cleaners rock (totally clean and free of organics).

 

I used Carib sea dry aragonite special grade reef sand (rinsed it clean).

 

I put a little dead fish in and it is now virtually decomposed. I have also added a pinch of flakes every day.

 

My parameters are:

 

Temp: 79.4F

Salinity: 1.024

Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites - 0. Ammonia hit .025 for a day then back to 0. nitrites and nitrates have stayed at 0.

 

I have a bottle of Marc Weiss bacteria boost, but have not added any as of yet.

 

My question is.......what should I do next?

 

It appears nothing is happening.......which nothing should based on the rock and sand I used......correct?

[Simulated Fish]

I have started a build thread already but am posting here for more to see my question.

 

I have been up and running for about a week. I used reef cleaners rock (totally clean and free of organics).

 

I used Carib sea dry aragonite special grade reef sand (rinsed it clean).

 

I put a little dead fish in and it is now virtually decomposed. I have also added a pinch of flakes every day.

 

My parameters are:

 

Temp: 79.4F

Salinity: 1.024

Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites - 0. Ammonia hit .025 for a day then back to 0. nitrites and nitrates have stayed at 0.

 

I have a bottle of Marc Weiss bacteria boost, but have not added any as of yet.

 

My question is.......what should I do next?

 

It appears nothing is happening.......which nothing should based on the rock and sand I used......correct?

 

 

So you used dry rock and rinsed your sand? My question is What did you use to seed your tank? I would go ahead an drop in that bottled bac. because you started with no bacteria, there is very little in the tank to consume the ammonia, nitrates and nitrites.

 

"Temp: 79.4F

Salinity: 1.024

Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites - 0. Ammonia hit .025 for a day then back to 0. nitrites and nitrates have stayed at 0."

That temp is fine I run at 78 - 82 F and my coral are exploding with growth.

Salinity is a bit low, unless you are dong a fish only tank I would aim for 1.025 personally.

What are you using to test your levels? As your ammonia drops you should see a small pop in your other levels as you cycle.

[mtamorrow]

 

 

 

So you used dry rock and rinsed your sand? My question is What did you use to seed your tank? I would go ahead an drop in that bottled bac. because you started with no bacteria, there is very little in the tank to consume the ammonia, nitrates and nitrites.

 

"Temp: 79.4F

Salinity: 1.024

Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites - 0. Ammonia hit .025 for a day then back to 0. nitrites and nitrates have stayed at 0."

That temp is fine I run at 78 - 82 F and my coral are exploding with growth.

Salinity is a bit low, unless you are dong a fish only tank I would aim for 1.025 personally.

What are you using to test your levels? As your ammonia drops you should see a small pop in your other levels as you cycle.

I didn't seed it with anything.......

 

I can add some bacteria boost?

 

My salinity was at 1.025, then yesterday I installed the Tunze ATO and raised my water level a bit (with RO/DI). I lowered the sensor this morning to get the water level to where it was before I installed it and I expect salinity to go back up.......If I am understanding all or this correctly.

 

I am using API test kit

 

Thanks for helping!

[phillyclownfish]

If you used dry rock you would of wanted to use live sand. If you cleaned your live sand then I would suggest using the boost or maybe going out to get more live sand and do not rinse it.

[mtamorrow]

If you used dry rock you would of wanted to use live sand. If you cleaned your live sand then I would suggest using the boost or maybe going out to get more live sand and do not rinse it.

OK.....I will add the bacteria.

 

But what do I do to start the cycle? add another dead fish / shrimp?

[Pinner Reef]

Yep, add the bacteria and a shrimp. Watch the params for a week and the ammonia should jump up much higher than .25. Also you're right in so much as you should see nitrites/trates at some point along the way... Usually

[mtamorrow]

Yep, add the bacteria and a shrimp. Watch the params for a week and the ammonia should jump up much higher than .25. Also you're right in so much as you should see nitrites/trates at some point along the way... Usually

Great......off to Kroger during lunch to buy 1 shrimp!

[Simulated Fish]

OK.....I will add the bacteria.

 

But what do I do to start the cycle? add another dead fish / shrimp?

+1 on adding shrip.

 

Because your using bottled bac expect to cycle for a few weeks. Once you go about 4-7 days ghost feeding and the ammonia is zeroed out each day you can add your first live stock.

 

Just remember to go slow start with one fish, then CUC, then coral.

 

Don't do more then double your current bio load at a time and give it at lest a week, preferably 2-3, between adding new live stock.

 

You don't want to add more than the bio filter your establishing can handle and as you add more it will grow and then you can add more live stock!

[Hammerstone]

I like your rock setup!!?

[mtamorrow]

+1 on adding shrip.

 

Because your using bottled bac expect to cycle for a few weeks. Once you go about 4-7 days ghost feeding and the ammonia is zeroed out each day you can add your first live stock.

 

Just remember to go slow start with one fish, then CUC, then coral.

 

Don't do more then double your current bio load at a time and give it at lest a week, preferably 2-3, between adding new live stock.

 

You don't want to add more than the bio filter your establishing can handle and as you add more it will grow and then you can add more live stock!

Thanks Headshot......that's the plan......I appreciate the input

[mtamorrow]

I like your rock setup!!?

Thanks Hammerstone........it took a few re-do's, but I like it now too. The reef cleaners rock is pretty cool as far as shapes, holes, and how it all fits together very easily. Here some pics of each side

[Simulated Fish]

Thanks Headshot......that's the plan......I appreciate the input

 

 

no problem

 

BTW also watch your nitrates and nitrites before adding your first fish. These are toxic, just not as much as ammonia, and need to be kept in check also.

 

I really like the new aquascape! A++

[mtamorrow]

 

 

no problem

 

BTW also watch your nitrates and nitrites before adding your first fish. These are toxic, just not as much as ammonia, and need to be kept in check also.

 

I really like the new aquascape! A++

Thanks again.......please feel free to follow my build thread under member aquariums.......I'm not sure how to add a link to it but it has mtamorrow on the thread name. I'll be asking more questions there in a week or so after I drop in the shrimp tonight!

[ajmckay]

So the common consensus is to add a raw shrimp... IMO not necessary. Follow the instructions on the bottled bacteria. It probably goes something like this:

1) Add X amount each day for 7 days

2) Add livestock on day 2-3

 

So there are several processes at play. A raw shrimp doesn't produce ammonia immediately. It has to decompose. Adding a raw shrimp can cause a bacterial bloom as well as foul your water. It's just not necessary. Someone please provide an explanation why a raw shrimp is necessary (if you can think of one).

 

A much quicker and much simpler method is to follow the directions on the bottle.

 

If you don't trust the claims on the bottle then test the aquarium using pure ammonia. Get some pure uncolored unscented ammonia and on the day that it says fish can be added add a few drops of ammonia. Test and you should see ammonia. Test again in 24 hours and it should be undetectable. Using this method you know for sure that the tank is ready and it's clean and quick.

 

search "ammonia dosing calculator" and add enough ammonia to get to about 2ppm.

 

Feel free to use the slow method - it does work. But since you already have the bottled bacteria and you're going to use it you might as well get through the initial "cycle" quick.

[mtamorrow]

So the common consensus is to add a raw shrimp... IMO not necessary. Follow the instructions on the bottled bacteria. It probably goes something like this:

1) Add X amount each day for 7 days

2) Add livestock on day 2-3

 

So there are several processes at play. A raw shrimp doesn't produce ammonia immediately. It has to decompose. Adding a raw shrimp can cause a bacterial bloom as well as foul your water. It's just not necessary. Someone please provide an explanation why a raw shrimp is necessary (if you can think of one).

 

A much quicker and much simpler method is to follow the directions on the bottle.

 

If you don't trust the claims on the bottle then test the aquarium using pure ammonia. Get some pure uncolored unscented ammonia and on the day that it says fish can be added add a few drops of ammonia. Test and you should see ammonia. Test again in 24 hours and it should be undetectable. Using this method you know for sure that the tank is ready and it's clean and quick.

 

search "ammonia dosing calculator" and add enough ammonia to get to about 2ppm.

 

Feel free to use the slow method - it does work. But since you already have the bottled bacteria and you're going to use it you might as well get through the initial "cycle" quick.

That's my way of thinking! I thought this is why I bought clean, cured rock and dry sand............add the bottle and you're in business???!!!

[blkhwkz]

That's my way of thinking! I thought this is why I bought clean, cured rock and dry sand............add the bottle and you're in business???!!!

For my JBJ 45 I used reef cleaners rock, live sand, Dr Tim's bacteria and pure ammonia. Took 3-4 weeks to cycle so that if I added ammonia it was gone in 24 hours. For my QT tank one night when I had to put a fish in there quick and hadn't kept up with it, I drained it, added all new mixed salt water, a bottle of bacteria and tossed in the problem fish. He lived in there for 2 weeks no issues before I took him to the LFS to trade in.

 

Since everything in the hobby takes time and patience, I figure on the DT why rush the cycle. I am pretty sure I could have just added fish right away as the bottle says. However I did stock the tank with coral and fish much faster than just about everyone would recommend after that couple of week cycle. I've had no issues and my nitrate tests always come up 0-1. I actually want to raise my nitrates a bit now.

[mtamorrow]

For my JBJ 45 I used reef cleaners rock, live sand, Dr Tim's bacteria and pure ammonia. Took 3-4 weeks to cycle so that if I added ammonia it was gone in 24 hours. For my QT tank one night when I had to put a fish in there quick and hadn't kept up with it, I drained it, added all new mixed salt water, a bottle of bacteria and tossed in the problem fish. He lived in there for 2 weeks no issues before I took him to the LFS to trade in.

 

Since everything in the hobby takes time and patience, I figure on the DT why rush the cycle. I am pretty sure I could have just added fish right away as the bottle says. However I did stock the tank with coral and fish much faster than just about everyone would recommend after that couple of week cycle. I've had no issues and my nitrate tests always come up 0-1. I actually want to raise my nitrates a bit now.

Well......since I put the shrimp in last night, I guess I could pull it out and do the cycle like you did blkhwkz........I am totally clued in on the patience part (not my best quality), but I understand it's importance in this hobby. Either way, I am not planning on adding anything alive to the tank for at least a couple more weeks.

 

Thanks for the input.

[ajmckay]

It's all about timing... Try not to think of the "cycle" as a one time event, but rather a continuous process.

 

The first step is getting the right bacteria and organisms in there - this establishes the bio filter once the nitrogen cycle is complete.

 

Then you need to grow the bio filter. To grow it you add increasing levels of ammonia - which is a product of decomposition though also added more directly as fish expel much of their nitrogenous waste as ammonia. If you simply wait the process will stagnate.

 

Finally equilibrium is achieved. This means that the capacity of the bio filter equals the amount of waste being produced or introduced into the system. Each change will require re-equalization.

 

Hope that makes sense. When you add the bottled bacteria it's not like there's any magic happening - you just move the process along artificially fast. You add bacteria in huge numbers initially, then before they die off you add livestock or an alternate form of waste (ammonia dosing). You keep adding bacteria so that it keeps up with production for several days after.

 

It of course doesn't hurt to have a bottle of seachem prime handy because when added in 2x doses it has the ability to neutralize ammonia.

 

So the main thing is for you to understand the process... As long as you do there shouldn't be any issues you can't anticipate or react to.

[mtamorrow]

It's all about timing... Try not to think of the "cycle" as a one time event, but rather a continuous process.

 

The first step is getting the right bacteria and organisms in there - this establishes the bio filter once the nitrogen cycle is complete.

 

Then you need to grow the bio filter. To grow it you add increasing levels of ammonia - which is a product of decomposition though also added more directly as fish expel much of their nitrogenous waste as ammonia. If you simply wait the process will stagnate.

 

Finally equilibrium is achieved. This means that the capacity of the bio filter equals the amount of waste being produced or introduced into the system. Each change will require re-equalization.

 

Hope that makes sense. When you add the bottled bacteria it's not like there's any magic happening - you just move the process along artificially fast. You add bacteria in huge numbers initially, then before they die off you add livestock or an alternate form of waste (ammonia dosing). You keep adding bacteria so that it keeps up with production for several days after.

 

It of course doesn't hurt to have a bottle of seachem prime handy because when added in 2x doses it has the ability to neutralize ammonia.

 

So the main thing is for you to understand the process... As long as you do there shouldn't be any issues you can't anticipate or react to.

Thanks ajmckay........while I understood the process, they way you wrote it out helped me understand it more.

 

My plan is:

 

I followed the instructions on the bacteria bottle and added 1/2 tsp yesterday.

 

I will do it again today.

 

tomorrow I will dose w ammonia per the dosage chart to get to 2ppm.

 

Wait for cycle to complete, then do it all again.

 

Goal will be to add two fish not this weekend but next.

 

Monitor temp, salinity, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates closely after adding livestock.

 

add CUC once I have a reason to.....

 

sound OK?

[ajmckay]

So doesn't the bacteria bottle say that you should keep dosing? I'm not familiar with the specific product you mention but on most of them I've seen you add X amount per day for alike a week.

 

Because this sounded funny I went and researched the product... Seems like this product is NOT what I thought it was.

 

http://www.weissorganics.com/bacterboost.html per their description "Bacter Boost^TM provides the ability of the water to host an exponential growth medium for subcultures." I couldn't find anywhere where it said it contained actual bacteria from the family nitrobacter. Instead I think it's some concoction that is supposed to encourage the existing bacterial cultures. The advertising on this product IMO is grossly misleading.

 

Compare the Marc Weiss product description to Biospira http://www.instantocean.com/Products/aquarium-saltwater-care/salt-water-set-up/bio-spira-saltwater-aquarium-bacteria.aspx Biospira specifically states that it contains live bacteria cultures.

 

So what I said in previous posts still applies, but the Marc Weiss Bacter Boost will not work like you think it will. Please instead use a bottled bacterial culture that specifically states is contains live bacteria from the family nitrobacter (nitrosomnas etc...). Popular ones are Biospira and Dr. Tims one and only. If you don't get another bottle of bacteria then you should stick to conventional methods.

[mtamorrow]

So doesn't the bacteria bottle say that you should keep dosing? I'm not familiar with the specific product you mention but on most of them I've seen you add X amount per day for alike a week.

 

Because this sounded funny I went and researched the product... Seems like this product is NOT what I thought it was.

 

http://www.weissorganics.com/bacterboost.html per their description "Bacter Boost^TM provides the ability of the water to host an exponential growth medium for subcultures." I couldn't find anywhere where it said it contained actual bacteria from the family nitrobacter. Instead I think it's some concoction that is supposed to encourage the existing bacterial cultures. The advertising on this product IMO is grossly misleading.

 

Compare the Marc Weiss product description to Biospira http://www.instantocean.com/Products/aquarium-saltwater-care/salt-water-set-up/bio-spira-saltwater-aquarium-bacteria.aspx Biospira specifically states that it contains live bacteria cultures.

 

So what I said in previous posts still applies, but the Marc Weiss Bacter Boost will not work like you think it will. Please instead use a bottled bacterial culture that specifically states is contains live bacteria from the family nitrobacter (nitrosomnas etc...). Popular ones are Biospira and Dr. Tims one and only. If you don't get another bottle of bacteria then you should stick to conventional methods.

WOW......first, I really appreciate you taking the time to look that up, and more importantly telling me about it!

 

Thankyou very much.

 

I will head to my LFS and either get the right stuff or buy a couple pounds of live sand from his tank to seed with.

 

Thanks again......I REALLY appreciate it

[mtamorrow]

Picked up and added API live bacteria yesterday at lunch.

 

Will add ammonia per dosage chart tonight.

[mtamorrow]

dosed with ammonia 5 days ago. had already added API live bacteria and added 2lbs of live sand from my LFS.

 

tested last night and ammonia is down to .5, nitrites rising to .5, nitrates at 0.

 

Almost there!

[ajmckay]

Awesome, good luck.