xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hey ya'll Those of you who have been following my build thread know that I've been dealing with some issues with my SPS. One of the new frags I got last week RTN'd away in the span of three days, and one of my older SPS colonies is starting to STN away too, much to my demise. I was hoping that some of you guys may have some advice on what my next step should be and/or perhaps what is causing my STN. My parameters are the following: pH - 8 dKH - 8 Ca - 400 Mg - 1360 Nitrates - 4 ppm Phosphates <0.05ppm Here are some pictures I've taken of this STN. Regards, Xiaoxi Link to comment
TheKleinReef Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I lost a lot of SPS last spring because my water got too clean. The only thing that solved it was feeding, a lot. Have your nutrient levels been staying consistent at 4ppm and <0.05ppm? Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 I lost a lot of SPS last spring because my water got too clean. The only thing that solved it was feeding, a lot. Have your nutrient levels been staying consistent at 4ppm and <0.05ppm? For about 3 weeks now. Link to comment
TheKleinReef Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 For about 3 weeks now. Hmm. I'm gonna skim through your thread so I don't ask any questions that have been answered. brb! Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hmm. I'm gonna skim through your thread so I don't ask any questions that have been answered. brb! Thanks a ton. At this point would it be worth pulling out and dipping on Bayer's just in case? Xiaoxi Link to comment
TheKleinReef Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Thanks a ton. At this point would it be worth pulling out and dipping on Bayer's just in case? Xiaoxi The only problem I see with dipping is that can potentially just put the coral under more stress (at least I think so, some may disagree with me). After sifting through your thread the tank was always super super clean, I think getting your nutrient levels up again for a significant amount of time should stabilize things. When I was going through a similar problem, it too me nearly 4 months before i could put an SPS coral in there and have it not STN. I noticed that the SPS that went through the initial nutrient starving period didn't even make it until the end, I lost them all except for maybe 1 or 2 colonies (that were reduced to 1"-2" frags). I've found success in a dirty tank, it gives you a lot of wiggle room and the only downside is keeping the glass clean really. A "dirty" nutrient rich tank isn't what everyone wants though. If you want to keep the ULNS-esque tank, you may need advice from those who have done that successfully. Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 The only problem I see with dipping is that can potentially just put the coral under more stress (at least I think so, some may disagree with me). After sifting through your thread the tank was always super super clean, I think getting your nutrient levels up again for a significant amount of time should stabilize things. When I was going through a similar problem, it too me nearly 4 months before i could put an SPS coral in there and have it not STN. I noticed that the SPS that went through the initial nutrient starving period didn't even make it until the end, I lost them all except for maybe 1 or 2 colonies (that were reduced to 1"-2" frags). I've found success in a dirty tank, it gives you a lot of wiggle room and the only downside is keeping the glass clean really. A "dirty" nutrient rich tank isn't what everyone wants though. If you want to keep the ULNS-esque tank, you may need advice from those who have done that successfully. My initial worry was that my tank was too clean too. From the time I noticed the STN, I have doubled my feedings to twice a day (comes out to 1/4 cube mysis, 1/4 cube cyclops per day). It makes me sad that this colony, which has lived through slight-bleachings, super clean waters, and alkalinity spikes over the past 6 months, is finally deciding to kick the bucket during one of the most water-parameter-stable times. Link to comment
TheKleinReef Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I've had a similar experience. I had three awesome colonies (massive pink mille, blueberry tortuosa, and a baligreen slimer) that went through everything with me. The instability of my first sumped tank, alk spikes, temp spikes, etc. Then the last straw that broke their back was the upgrade from the 29g to the 65g. Corals can only take so much stress before they give up. I agree it's very sad and frustrating. I do think that once you nurse everything back to health, it'll be okay. Especially since you have good husbandry and keep your ca/alk/mag in line. Also, if you plan on keeping SPS I highly suggest picking up a K+ test kit as well. I had a lot of success keeping that stable too. Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 I've had a similar experience. I had three awesome colonies (massive pink mille, blueberry tortuosa, and a baligreen slimer) that went through everything with me. The instability of my first sumped tank, alk spikes, temp spikes, etc. Then the last straw that broke their back was the upgrade from the 29g to the 65g. Corals can only take so much stress before they give up. I agree it's very sad and frustrating. I do think that once you nurse everything back to health, it'll be okay. Especially since you have good husbandry and keep your ca/alk/mag in line. Also, if you plan on keeping SPS I highly suggest picking up a K+ test kit as well. I had a lot of success keeping that stable too. I'll get a potassium test kit soon. Nothing like a slow-dying SPS to shoot my mental stress level through the roof. If it RTN'd over night, I'd be like "Oh well, too bad". Just because this is dying slowly, I get in the mindset that I "HAVE TO SAVE IT". Link to comment
TheKleinReef Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'll get a potassium test kit soon. Nothing like a slow-dying SPS to shoot my mental stress level through the roof. If it RTN'd over night, I'd be like "Oh well, too bad". Just because this is dying slowly, I get in the mindset that I "HAVE TO SAVE IT". It was torture watching a 10" colony turn into a 9" colony, then an 8" then 7", 6",5", 4" 3",2" 1" 0.... I nearly gave up... One thing I did learn through all of that is to not change everything for the sake of 1 coral. Even right now, everything in my tank except 1 coral is looking great, and I have no intention of risking the 99% to fix that one pesky SPS... hah Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 ^^ that is the best advice. No matter the type of coral, there can always be a specimen or two that deteriorate for no apparent reason even when tank conditions are correct/stable. The main thing is not to over react and produce conditions that negatively effect the other healthy coral. For SPS, I've had a Red Planet variant that I had to make small frags from and place in various locations to get 1 or 2 to survive. Might want to try that if you feel that your colony is on the way out. Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 It was torture watching a 10" colony turn into a 9" colony, then an 8" then 7", 6",5", 4" 3",2" 1" 0.... I nearly gave up... One thing I did learn through all of that is to not change everything for the sake of 1 coral. Even right now, everything in my tank except 1 coral is looking great, and I have no intention of risking the 99% to fix that one pesky SPS... hah That's so true. I'd be losing a lot more if I ended up killing my LPS and zoas in trying to save this SPS colony... ^^ that is the best advice. No matter the type of coral, there can always be a specimen or two that deteriorate for no apparent reason even when tank conditions are correct/stable. The main thing is not to over react and produce conditions that negatively effect the other healthy coral. For SPS, I've had a Red Planet variant that I had to make small frags from and place in various locations to get 1 or 2 to survive. Might want to try that if you feel that your colony is on the way out. I might try that out on Friday. If things are still STNing, I think I can make about 10-20 frags out of this colony. I'll also bayer dip it when I make the frags. Link to comment
metrokat Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Xiaoxly, have you completely ruled out pests? Link to comment
markalot Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I can't see flickr static pics, can you provide a link to your flickr username so I can see them? A https: link to your gallery will work. Link to comment
metrokat Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Xiaoxly, have you completely ruled out pests? I ask because this picture to me look like pests eating flesh Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I ask because this picture to me look like pests eating flesh Looking at this from top-down, how far does that Duncun spread out? Hard to tell in the pic, but are the Duncan and the Acro on about the same level? Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Xiaoxly, have you completely ruled out pests? I have not ruled out pests yet. What do I do if it is pests? I can't see flickr static pics, can you provide a link to your flickr username so I can see them? A https: link to your gallery will work. https://www.flickr.com/photos/126956351@N07/albums/72157657476802303 Looking at this from top-down, how far does that Duncun spread out? Hard to tell in the pic, but are the Duncan and the Acro on about the same level? They are not on the same level. When the duncan spreads out, it cannot touch/get close to the Acro Guys, thanks for helping me. Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I have not ruled out pests yet. What do I do if it is pests? Since the denuded area is localized and you don't see anything during the daytime, you *may* have something hiding nearby that comes out at night. On a smaller scale, I had a white worm that would create similar looking damage at night time to an A. millepora frag. Flashlight, late night stakeout Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Since the denuded area is localized and you don't see anything during the daytime, you *may* have something hiding nearby that comes out at night. On a smaller scale, I had a white worm that would create similar looking damage at night time to an A. millepora frag. Flashlight, late night stakeout Maybe flashlight it is.. Here are some closer ups of the damage; sorry about shoddy resolution, ipad fml. image by Xiaoxi Yang, on Flickr image by Xiaoxi Yang, on Flickr Link to comment
metrokat Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 The acro crab should be eating your pests so you may not find any but the damage looks like pests to me. During STN or RTN in my tank, the coral still maintains good color while it's flesh is peeling off. But in the case of pests the coral loses color. Your best bet would be to remove the whole coral and put it with tank water in a separate container, turkey baste every inch of it to see if anything comes off. If yes then we know what pest we are dealing with. Link to comment
Bingo1213 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 It is not from too low of nutrients. That looks very different in my experience. It is usually white tips, poor color and stunted growth. Also any STN that occurs from low nutrients starts at the very tips of the coral not the centers. And I have a lot of experience with ULNS because I vodka dose every tank I have owned. In my systems I combat low nutrients with a mix of fuel, photo and zoo plankton(for sps but of course lps get meaty foods). But you do not even have super low nutrients. My nitrates and phosphates are undetectable by even the best test kits. I think something is going after it. Go flashlight hunting for sure! Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 The acro crab should be eating your pests so you may not find any but the damage looks like pests to me. During STN or RTN in my tank, the coral still maintains good color while it's flesh is peeling off. But in the case of pests the coral loses color. Your best bet would be to remove the whole coral and put it with tank water in a separate container, turkey baste every inch of it to see if anything comes off. If yes then we know what pest we are dealing with. I took your advice and unmounted the frag & blew it with a turkey baster. Nothing other than pods came off. It is not from too low of nutrients. That looks very different in my experience. It is usually white tips, poor color and stunted growth. Also any STN that occurs from low nutrients starts at the very tips of the coral not the centers. And I have a lot of experience with ULNS because I vodka dose every tank I have owned. In my systems I combat low nutrients with a mix of fuel, photo and zoo plankton(for sps but of course lps get meaty foods). But you do not even have super low nutrients. My nitrates and phosphates are undetectable by even the best test kits. I think something is going after it. Go flashlight hunting for sure! God damnit. Here are some closer up picks, now that I can manipulate the colony. There's more extensive tissue damage than I originated thought... image by Xiaoxi Yang, on Flickr image by Xiaoxi Yang, on Flickr image by Xiaoxi Yang, on Flickr image by Xiaoxi Yang, on Flickr image by Xiaoxi Yang, on Flickr image by Xiaoxi Yang, on Flickr image by Xiaoxi Yang, on Flickr Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Here's the polyp extension the colony right now, post basting. Link to comment
Bingo1213 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Ya I still am leaning toward something eating it unfortunately. Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Ya I still am leaning toward something eating it unfortunately. Moreso than bacteria? I'm trying to figure out how I should proceed. Should I iodine dip it, and follow it with a bayer dip? What's the proper procedure here? Link to comment
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