Newstead Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Don't even ask... but the blade on my xacto knife fell into chamber 2 of my Biocube 29. I was able to see it once against the front partition but when I tried to use a magnet to get it out it disappeared. I have called, written and googled to try to decide if I need to remove everything, drain the tank, etc. All I can find is that the blade is stainless steel probably with a zirconium nitrade coating on the edge. Anyone have any idea if this will be a problem in the tank? From google the stainless steel should be ok? And the z n is "salt water resistant"? Link to comment
Elizabeth94 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I would definitely get that out of the tank.. Some stainless steel is better than others since there are different grades. I know this because of my extensive research on stainless steel headers for my mustang haha. I doubt an xacto blade is made with the best stainless steel money can buy. Even still, better grades can still rust and corrode, just takes longer. I am not sure how the biocube is set up, but you should deff find a way to get it out. It may take a little time, but I would think at some point it will start affecting your livestock. Link to comment
GTi Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I believe some stainless steels aren't magnetic - it may be in the chamber but unaffected by the magnet. Link to comment
Newstead Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Thanks to both of you - will see if I can drain enough to find the @^&* thing! Link to comment
brandon429 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I call harmless leave it. rust is harmless, we put that in bags and use it to strip po4 ive used break twisty ties in mine back in the day they rusted and eventually fell off the airline I had twisted, rust no big deal to me imo. Link to comment
Newstead Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 I call harmless leave it. rust is harmless, we put that in bags and use it to strip po4 ive used break twisty ties in mine back in the day they rusted and eventually fell off the airline I had twisted, rust no big deal to me imo. From your mouth to the God of reef tanks ... since the freaking thing is not coming out. My husband and I just spent the most frustrating hour of our 37 year marriage trying to get it out. We could see one tiny point of the triangle part against the front of chamber 2. NOTHING would move it. It is wedged under the bottom of the black divider between chamber 2 and the display tank (I assume from my trying to get it with the magnet). I even dug out the sand on the other side to see if it was poking out into the tank - it is not. If everything dies I am going postal on Xacto for their freaking pathetic new knife which I tightened and checked before using. Going to fix a few big black Russians now. Then make some more. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 HA that is awesome I do not blame your concern at all reefs are always one mishap away from the crash lol but in this case I firmly call no foul tempted to go toss one in my vase and walk the walk, predictions stink when nothing is on the line. I don't have a clean blade mine has cut all kinds of funk. The public shame of mis calling yours would be painful lol and if anything does go wrong those corals wont open up altogether and then you'll know its time to take down. I would bet small sums of money nothing will go wrong. im going to set a 2 mo follow up here and holler at ya I don't think it will insta crash even if im wrong, it w be irritated corals indicating something unusual w time to react I see as worst case. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 just thought of something. I have some safety razors that are the same thing and I really really think clean metal is no big deal, so ill put one in and watch the tank for a while to see whats up. mine is easily pulled and I can do a 100% water change faster than billy the kid could draw so here comes a self imposed prediction test. I should be able to tell in a week if something is up because of the concentration differences, my tank is packed and only 1 gallon of water and that much metal is twice what an exacto blade is. plus, I really want to test the prediction my reef has been through worse. if I come back and post 'get that thing the hell out' we're gonna be laughing but maybe not ya'll since youd have to take down a big tank lol. most of my info comes from an old post about someone who has a couple screws from the cabinet install in their sandbed lost from yrs ago and when they took out the sb it was all rust rotted but no foul done. that's different metal but I think the ssteel is safer than iron/screw whatever theyre made of it ranges. Link to comment
ndrobey Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Stainless steel is not magnetic, so a magnet won't effect it. Nickel is a major ingredient, which could cause problems, but hopefully there isn't enough nickel there to cause a major problem. Link to comment
NYfishies Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Stainless steel is not magnetic, so a magnet won't effect it. Nickel is a major ingredient, which could cause problems, but hopefully there isn't enough nickel there to cause a major problem. I thought X-acto blades are made from ferritic stainless (specially 420J2 - see below - no nickel)? Those cheap blades do not use nickel given the general cost of austenitic stainless steel and the fluctuations in the price of nickel. I pulled this from another forum not relevant to reef tanks. 420J2 was never intended as a blade steel. Its used primarily because its very inexpensive. * Edge retention is on the low end of mediocre, but there are worse steels. none of those worse steels are blade steels though, and 420J2 has the worst edge retention of all steels commonly seen in blades. * I think its MAXIMUM achievable hardness is like 54 Rc. most 420J2 blades are 52 Rc or less; why would the company pay good money to harden a steel they only purchased because of its cheapness? The up side of this is that it is easy to sharpen....but unless the company actualy spent the cash to harden a "junk" steel, then you will likely only be able to get a toothy working edge. * It is VERY VERY corrosion resistant. It almost impossible to make it rust unless you let it soak in harsh chemicals for a long period of time. * It is very durable. Its low hardness makes it unlikely that a 420J2 blade will break, unless its design is structurally unsound. In short, it is a poor overall blade steel, that has little business being used for knives, outside of a dive knife. MOST, but not all, knives made from it are of inferior quality. Link to comment
Dreichler Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 i would get a POWERFUL siphon, and try and suck it out, when the chambers drain, just pour the water back in, try again.... good way to clean your back chambers as well. Link to comment
NYfishies Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 i would get a POWERFUL siphon, and try and suck it out, when the chambers drain, just pour the water back in, try again.... good way to clean your back chambers as well. That's a really good idea, but it sounds like the blade is partially jammed/cut into the wall/glue already. Either way I think we will steal that idea for the next time we do a deep tank clean! Link to comment
Newstead Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 We siphoned out the back chambers trying to get to it after lowering the water in the DT and trying to block the lower intakes. And you are tight - althoigh it didn't move the blade I was surprised at what came out since I do siphon those every other week during water changes. So if nothing else. I have a cleaner tank. Only a scant 1/8 inch of the tip is showing. I did a great job getting it in there. Hoping the analysis NYFishies found of the steel is what the blade is and all the spazzing I am continuing to do is all for naught. And to think it happened because I was adding a protein skimmer to try to IMPROVE the tank environment. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 prediction accountability shot https://imageshack.com/i/padjwXc2j aka reefbowl with a razor on purpose aka will this help my micro brittle stars reproduce asexually now https://imageshack.com/i/pbIJ0bnTj Link to comment
brandon429 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I think as a sick test I'm going to coralline plate it I'm not joking. All it takes is two months of elevated c balance and itll spot up I bet. coated in 16 mos. Link to comment
Newstead Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 prediction accountability shot https://imageshack.com/i/padjwXc2j aka reefbowl with a razor on purpose aka will this help my micro brittle stars reproduce asexually now https://imageshack.com/i/pbIJ0bnTj First laugh I have had since the "Xacto incident". Can't wait to see future shots of this. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Now you have an exacto buddy. The goal of the bio exercise is things we can be deliberate about, predictability. Let's try it in a 9 yr reefbowl. I like really out of bounds tests. Link to comment
Newstead Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 I actually thought about trying to get a pic of the tip wedged in but the way things were going I would have dropped the phone in as well. We had to shove our heads against the open top and hold a flashlight at just the right angle to glimpse it. I am surprised the flashlight and one of us didn't fall in as well. Link to comment
Newstead Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Now you have an exacto buddy. The goal of the bio exercise is things we can be deliberate about, predictability. Let's try it in a 9 yr reefbowl. I like really out of bounds tests. Now you have my husband laughing at your pics of the amazing razor blade experiment. (Twilght Zone theme in background) And to make things even weirder, when he got back from our LFS with more water this evening, he brought a Reef Hobbyist magazine and told me about a cool tiny reef tank in it - and guess who is cited in the article??? Link to comment
brandon429 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 awesome! small world I sure thought that was cool of Maritza to mention her vase reef is epic Well I guess now we just wait and reef ever soo slowly Link to comment
ndrobey Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I thought X-acto blades are made from ferritic stainless (specially 420J2 - see below - no nickel)? Those cheap blades do not use nickel given the general cost of austenitic stainless steel and the fluctuations in the price of nickel. I pulled this from another forum not relevant to reef tanks. 420J2 was never intended as a blade steel. Its used primarily because its very inexpensive.[/size] * Edge retention is on the low end of mediocre, but there are worse steels. none of those worse steels are blade steels though, and 420J2 has the worst edge retention of all steels commonly seen in blades.[/size] * I think its MAXIMUM achievable hardness is like 54 Rc. most 420J2 blades are 52 Rc or less; why would the company pay good money to harden a steel they only purchased because of its cheapness? The up side of this is that it is easy to sharpen....but unless the company actualy spent the cash to harden a "junk" steel, then you will likely only be able to get a toothy working edge.[/size] * It is VERY VERY corrosion resistant. It almost impossible to make it rust unless you let it soak in harsh chemicals for a long period of time.[/size] * It is very durable. Its low hardness makes it unlikely that a 420J2 blade will break, unless its design is structurally unsound.[/size] In short, it is a poor overall blade steel, that has little business being used for knives, outside of a dive knife. MOST, but not all, knives made from it are of inferior quality.[/size] Ingredients of 420 J2 stainless steel (%): Iron: About 83 Carbon: Between .15 and .36 Manganese: 1.00 Silicon: 1.00 Nickel: 1.00 Phosphorus: .04 Sulphur: .03 Chromium: 12.00 to 14.00 Link to comment
NYfishies Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 * I think its MAXIMUM achievable hardness is like 54 Rc. most 420J2 blades are 52 Rc or less; why would the company pay good money to harden a steel they only purchased because of its cheapness? The up side of this is that it is easy to sharpen....but unless the company actualy spent the cash to harden a "junk" steel, then you will likely only be able to get a toothy working edge.[/size] * It is VERY VERY corrosion resistant. It almost impossible to make it rust unless you let it soak in harsh chemicals for a long period of time.[/size] * It is very durable. Its low hardness makes it unlikely that a 420J2 blade will break, unless its design is structurally unsound.[/size] In short, it is a poor overall blade steel, that has little business being used for knives, outside of a dive knife. MOST, but not all, knives made from it are of inferior quality.[/size] Ingredients of 420 J2 stainless steel (%): Iron: About 83 Carbon: Between .15 and .36 Manganese: 1.00 Silicon: 1.00 Nickel: 1.00 Phosphorus: .04 Sulphur: .03 Chromium: 12.00 to 14.00 The Nickel at 1% is a max allowed in this grade - not that it contains 1%. As you can see this is a Chrome/Iron steel (which is known as ferritic stainless). The idea is to keep all of the other residuals low. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 mines rusted a bit on the blade edge now, corrosion setting in but nobody minds in tank star fish still crawl over it. I asked Randy Holmes Farley what he thought and he said he's heard of full razors being left dropped in reef tanks over the years no harm. the gfo everyone is paying for is rust that's from me a terrible chemist, not from Randy lol. Link to comment
Bingo1213 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I had the stainless steel reflector on a coralife turbo twist rust up on me which I did not catch for about a year. It killed a clam (which are known to be very sensitive to heavy metals) and made my SPS lose color and stunted their growth. Also I know we use rust (GFO) all the time in our tanks but you have to realize it is of a very high quality. Even that high quality rust some will argue causes pinched mantle in clams. Long story short to combat the pollutants and heavy metals left in my tank I ran cuprisorb which seemed to really help. It didn't take long for stuff to start looking better again. If you absolutely can't get it out I would just always run cuprisorb. But I see this as the absolute final straw decision. Link to comment
Newstead Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 XActo customer service actually emailed me back. The body of the blade is AISI 1095 steel and the cutting edge is coated with zirconium nitrade. They have no idea what will happen in a reef tank (somehow I am not surprised - probably never been asked that one before). After the mellowing effects of my self-medication with the BRs and a night's sleep I am just going to try to forget it is there unless Brandon's or my corals and livestock start running for the hills. If they do, my husband may get his big tank quicker than he had hoped. Will get some cuprisorb to run just in case! I have only LPS, a sun coral and mushrooms in there with 2 clowns. Don't have the lighting for a clam and (gasp) I don't care for most SPS. Still looking forward to future updates on the pico razor experiment. Link to comment
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