MindStream Aquarium Monitor KICKSTARTER

[Lawnman]

This. I'm not interested in my ammonia level and my Apex tells me the temperature in my tank already.

Besides I don't suppose the temperature sensor needs replacing.

 

BTW the sensor replacements aren't $30 a month, They are $30 to $50 EACH, about $500 to replace the whole kit of 10. Per month. I may have read that incorrectly but numbers were swimming so there.

 

Initial costs aside, people bitch about T5 replacement costs, this one tops that.

I'm pretty sure they've handed out beta models to the key people in our hobby for testing. Like Jake Adams

 

Who is Jake Adams?

[tibbsy07]

This. I'm not interested in my ammonia level and my Apex tells me the temperature in my tank already.

Besides I don't suppose the temperature sensor needs replacing.

 

BTW the sensor replacements aren't $30 a month, They are $30 to $50 EACH, about $500 to replace the whole kit of 10. Per month. I may have read that incorrectly but numbers were swimming so there.

 

Initial costs aside, people bitch about T5 replacement costs, this one tops that.

I'm pretty sure they've handed out beta models to the key people in our hobby for testing. Like Jake Adams

There are 10 readings per disk, but you can't swap out individual tests. Each disc is $30-50 and the whole thing needs replacing every month. The 10 kit thing is $500 for 10 disks. That's what I gathered from their kickstarter page, at least. I can't imagine they think that someone would spend over $6000 a year on testing.

[braaap]

This. I'm not interested in my ammonia level and my Apex tells me the temperature in my tank already.

Besides I don't suppose the temperature sensor needs replacing.

 

BTW the sensor replacements aren't $30 a month, They are $30 to $50 EACH, about $500 to replace the whole kit of 10. Per month. I may have read that incorrectly but numbers were swimming so there.

 

Initial costs aside, people bitch about T5 replacement costs, this one tops that.

I'm pretty sure they've handed out beta models to the key people in our hobby for testing. Like Jake Adams

 

What tibbsy said below. $30-$50 per month for all of the tests.

 

There are 10 readings per disk, but you can't swap out individual tests. Each disc is $30-50 and the whole thing needs replacing every month. The 10 kit thing is $500 for 10 disks. That's what I gathered from their kickstarter page, at least. I can't imagine they think that someone would spend over $6000 a year on testing.

 

Exactly.

 

To respond to your original point I think they took the 14k figure and calculated it by buying all the expensive stuff like 10 different Apex modules and Pinpoint testers etc. They didn't calculate the cost of just buying Elos kits or something.

[metrokat]

There are 10 readings per disk, but you can't swap out individual tests. Each disc is $30-50 and the whole thing needs replacing every month. The 10 kit thing is $500 for 10 disks. That's what I gathered from their kickstarter page, at least. I can't imagine they think that someone would spend over $6000 a year on testing.

Ah, gotcha. thanks.

[afyounie]

I can definitely see designing a control set up based on this, but it still then requires an automated system completely separate. You'd also likely need to have this integrated into your normal routine for a few weeks before developing your control system as you need to know what parameters fluctuate and when.

 

I agree that this has a lot of potential, but I think there are still some hurdles that will likely need to be addressed in the long term. There may be tolerance factored in - I'm not an optics expert by any stretch - but the lab equipment that I refer to is optics-based and still requires calibration from time to time. I suspect that having to calibrate will actually become a part of routine maintenance on these.

 

The system is definitely going to be for larger systems, but then how sensitive are these tests? Will 1 unit be useful for a 500g tank? Would you need 2 at that point? They seem to be running tests in a lab setting, which is wonderful - but they need more testing with actual established tanks before they can really make the claims they are making. Baseline experiments in a well-controlled lab setting are absolute, and I think they have these established. But our systems are dynamic and no single tank is alike. I want to see their results over a period of a few months in many established tanks before I commit. I'd be willing to beta if I didn't have to donate a lot of $$$ to do so.

 

Ah, I was thinking of integrating one of these with my Arduino, which means doing my own coding and using either scripts or accessing the data directly. Then using the Arduino to control pumps. But yes, with your typical user, you'd need a separate system. The control system couldn't be your typical bang-band control. It would probably need to be underdamped to ensure that you never overdose the system.

 

They did test these in established tanks for a couple months, but I didn't hear much about it. They asked for testers with established tanks on Facebook and seemed to get a decent amount of people respond. They concluded the testing and said it was successful, but I didn't pay much attention. Not sure what was successful.

 

I really am waiting for it to hit the public and be used for a couple months to a year before considering adopting it. I definitely think there will be a need to calibrate annually or bi-annually. Drift in calibration can't be ignored, especially as the wipers degrade. I'm really wondering how well the plastic they are using will hold up to the saltwater. It's exciting because this is a really complex piece of engineering and I want to see how well it holds up in a hostile environment.

 

I think the smart thing would be redundant sensors, but having 2 of the same sensors doesn't really accomplish that. Probably will still want to test manually once a week to ensure the calibration is still holding. I foresee a lot of people wholly trusting these sensors and then having a major crash a couple months later.

 

As for the discs, I imagine once the market is saturated with the main sensor module, the discs will come down in price. This is how they plan to make money long term and the initial high price is to recoup their NRE.

 

 

 

Edit:

I said underdamped, I meant overdamped. I always get these 2 mixed up.

[Admonition]

Maybe it would be worth the price if it was a one time cost, or even if the discs were way cheaper. But $700 retail plus $50 a month in replacement discs is too expensive in my opinion. You could buy -at least- two new Salifert kits a month at that cost, and God knows it takes me months to deplete a whole kit. It seems to come down to how much are you willing to pay to not have to do the kits yourself, and I can't justify $600 a year plus the initial $700. I'll be one of those people who wait for a long while as the product matures and the price goes down lol

[Mirya]

Who is Jake Adams?

 

The Reef Builders dude.

 

He did another post on the MindStream today. This time posting a video of tearing down a Mindstream to show its guts.

 

[metrokat]

 

The Reef Builders dude.

 

He did another post on the MindStream today. This time posting a video of tearing down a Mindstream to show its guts.

 

I didn't learn anything new from that except that i liked one of those tools he was using.

Hey people are spending $350 on an Apex Dos which only does one thing - dosing. And another 200 for dosing containers. At 700$ retail you get to monitor 10 parameters. $500 more per year replacement cost. It's not for every hobbyists but it has a place in the hobby for sure.

[HarryPotter]

I didn't learn anything new from that except that i liked one of those tools he was using.

Hey people are spending $350 on an Apex Dos which only does one thing - dosing. And another 200 for dosing containers. At 700$ retail you get to monitor 10 parameters. $500 more per year replacement cost. It's not for every hobbyists but it has a place in the hobby for sure.

 

Which tool?

[Admonition]

Agreed, it absolutely has a place in the hobby and I can't wait to see how it comes along

[PicoSavvy]

I would buy it, if there was a way to Have it connect to a controller so it can adjust the system and dosages. Same with seneye, would buy it if it connected to a controller

[Hexadron]

I'm excited and did pledge. If I don't like it, I could always sell it I have been using the Seneye for the past 5 months and really like to see the few parameters it does monitor (@ $30 per slide, it ain't cheap!) and it has saved me with a few pH swings due to forgetting to turn on a pump a couple times. Having all these additional parameters (if accurate) would be amazing. Nitrate and Phosphate would be great too, but at least testing those isn't very time consuming for me unlike Cal/Alk & Mag

 

I would love to keep you guys posted, and should have my new tank build well underway and established in time to give a proper review.

 

I hope the discs don't cost more than $30, but only time will tell. Many people are forgetting that the pledge for the year supply of discs could also be to pay for being a beta tester, so we still aren't 100% that is what the final cost will be.

[DaveFason]

I'm excited and did pledge. If I don't like it, I could always sell it I have been using the Seneye for the past 5 months and really like to see the few parameters it does monitor (@ $30 per slide, it ain't cheap!) and it has saved me with a few pH swings due to forgetting to turn on a pump a couple times. Having all these additional parameters (if accurate) would be amazing. Nitrate and Phosphate would be great too, but at least testing those isn't very time consuming for me unlike Cal/Alk & Mag

 

I would love to keep you guys posted, and should have my new tank build well underway and established in time to give a proper review.

 

I hope the discs don't cost more than $30, but only time will tell. Many people are forgetting that the pledge for the year supply of discs could also be to pay for being a beta tester, so we still aren't 100% that is what the final cost will be.

Looking forward to it. I could justify this for my new build but would like to see how things pan out.

 

I wish there was a way they could work on prolonging the disks themselves. Running every 3 days instead of daily? If you are around the house you can normally see when something happens or out of whack. Then change to daily while on vacation or testing something new out.

 

I can imagine this would be ideal for public aquariums if the accuracy is as pinpoint as they say. Much cheaper then the lab equipment they use like Tibs stated.

 

-Dave

[Hexadron]

MindStream has updated their Kickstarter page FAQ (at the bottom) with a lot of answers to questions some of us had

[Mirya]

After reading the FAQ, I'm actually considering backing now...