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Zero/Undetectable Phosphates


callmesaul8889

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callmesaul8889

Has anyone had any experience with having undetectable phosphate levels? My system is a 30g AIO with a small bag of carbon, filter floss, and an AquaMaxx HOB1 skimmer. I feed twice a day with LRS Reef Frenzy and supplement with pellet foods, live phyto, and just recently started with Copepods MAX.

 

My nitrate levels have never dropped below 10ppm, but I NEVER have any algae. I can go 2 weeks without cleaning my glass and I have 0 nuisance algae in the tank. No matter how much I feed, my phosphate levels stay at 0ppm. I'm using a Salifert phosphate test and I've confirmed the results with a second test kit.

 

My LFS is recommending dosing Brightwell NeoPhos to bring up the phosphate to a detectable level, but I am having a very difficult time finding any information on dosing phosphorus directly into the tank to raise the phosphate level.

 

My SPS coral typically do ok for a while, and then slowly start to pale and end up with barely any color, indicative of starving. Chaeto (that I got to bring down nitrate when it was around 30ppm) begins to die after a few days even with high powered light and high nitrate. Any help would be much appreciated, this tank has been nothing but a headache.

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callmesaul8889

What is your alk doing during the times between water changes. There's where my focus would be to be honest.

 

I forgot to include that my alk was a little on the high side last test around 11.4dKH. I did a 5gal water change that brought it down to 10.8dKH. The high alk had me worried that I was using too much kalk in my top off water (even though my calcium holds steady at 440ppm), so I've reverted back to topping off with straight RO/DI water for the time being.

 

The rest of my params:

 

SG: 1.025

Temp: 80.2

Nitrate: 10-15ppm

Calc: 440ppm

Mag: ~1380 (haven't tested within the last couple of weeks)

Alk: 10.8dKH

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callmesaul8889

Any fish? Are you feeding the tank well with supplements like Reef Roids and other coral foods?

 

1 clown, 1 royal gramma, 1 small orange lyretail anthias, 1 hawkfish, 1 skunk cleaner shrimp, 1 blood shrimp. No reef roids, but I occasionally will feed coral frenzy pellets.

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12_egg_Omelette

SPS is pretty sensitive to Alk, I bet if you keep that stable you'll see your coral do well. Everything else is prob not going to be affected by that as much, LPS, zoas, etc.

 

Harry might suggest getting 8 radions, the guy is nuts.

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HarryPotter

SPS is pretty sensitive to Alk, I bet if you keep that stable you'll see your coral do well. Everything else is prob not going to be affected by that as much, LPS, zoas, etc.

 

Harry might suggest getting 8 radions, the guy is nuts.

 

LOL that was a joke 12_egg!!!! Its fair to ask about nutrient levels or feeding schedule in his tank if he is struggling to keep up phosphates.

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12_egg_Omelette

 

LOL that was a joke 12_egg!!!! Its fair to ask about nutrient levels or feeding schedule in his tank if he is struggling to keep up phosphates.

 

I'm just busting your balls. I would love to be able to afford 8 radions. Wouldn't use 8, but would love to be able to be like today I will order 8 of them.

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callmesaul8889

Stable alk it is. I'm sure my water change didn't help then if stability is what I'm after. What about the phosphate issue? Before I started with kalk, my alk was always around 9dKH and I still had 0 phosphate and awful sps color.

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HarryPotter

 

I'm just busting your balls. I would love to be able to afford 8 radions. Wouldn't use 8, but would love to be able to be like today I will order 8 of them.

 

Ha I have a single Radion and love it... With wide angle lenses it definitely qualifies as Orgasmic.

 

Actually bought it for a bit under $200, fixed the power supply with some quick soldering, and had myself a like new XR30w Pro (Gen2).

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12_egg_Omelette

 

Ha I have a single Radion and love it... With wide angle lenses it definitely qualifies as Orgasmic.

 

Actually bought it for a bit under $200, fixed the power supply with some quick soldering, and had myself a like new XR30w Pro (Gen2).

 

Sweet, I got mine for $235 from a buddy getting out of the hobby. Love it, will put 2-3 total on my 65 I'm going to be setting up.

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0 Phos isn't out of the ordinary when running a skimmer. I never detect Phos in my bigger tank which runs a skimmer and chemipure blue. Perhaps try to bring you Alk down slowly to a max of 10 and keep it steady from there on out.

 

SPS losing color, do they have enough light? Do you notice any brown algae growing on them?


I should add that I heavily feed my fish and spot feed corals a few times a week with a crazy combo of stuff. I do not have issues with algae (besides the glass which is due to natural sunlight).

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callmesaul8889

0 Phos isn't out of the ordinary when running a skimmer. I never detect Phos in my bigger tank which runs a skimmer and chemipure blue. Perhaps try to bring you Alk down slowly to a max of 10 and keep it steady from there on out.

 

SPS losing color, do they have enough light? Do you notice any brown algae growing on them?

I should add that I heavily feed my fish and spot feed corals a few times a week with a crazy combo of stuff. I do not have issues with algae (besides the glass which is due to natural sunlight).

 

Any tips on stabilizing the alkalinity? My alk level never really drops, which seems odd because I read about successful tanks needing to dose constantly.

 

I have a Hydra 52 over my 30 gallon, I'm pretty sure they have plenty of light. No algae growth at all except for maybe a tiny amount on the dead areas of a few SPS.

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Any tips on stabilizing the alkalinity? My alk level never really drops, which seems odd because I read about successful tanks needing to dose constantly.

 

I have a Hydra 52 over my 30 gallon, I'm pretty sure they have plenty of light. No algae growth at all except for maybe a tiny amount on the dead areas of a few SPS.

 

That light should be good. What do you run it at?

 

What is your Mag at?

 

I use the Neptune Systems DOS for my tanks. On my mixed reef which is a Fusion40 I dose 23.7 ml of Alk over 18 hours (mainly while lights are off to help balance pH) at 0.4 ml per dose. Every once in a while I tweak the amount. I test about 3 times a week my levels using a Hanna checker which is fast and easy.

 

I also do weekly 15% water changes using Tropic Marine Pro.

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callmesaul8889

 

That light should be good. What do you run it at?

 

What is your Mag at?

 

I use the Neptune Systems DOS for my tanks. On my mixed reef which is a Fusion40 I dose 23.7 ml of Alk over 18 hours (mainly while lights are off to help balance pH) at 0.4 ml per dose. Every once in a while I tweak the amount. I test about 3 times a week my levels using a Hanna checker which is fast and easy.

 

I also do weekly 15% water changes using Tropic Marine Pro.

 

60% on all channels at the moment. I got tired of playing with the levels, so I'm keeping it at this setting until I can figure out the coloration, etc.

 

Mag was 1380 last I checked. I will get an updated reading tonight.

 

I will start checking my alk 3x a week to get an idea for how much it fluctuates in the system. Should I try to bring my tank alk down to the level that my water change water is at? My fresh saltwater reads about 9dKH. If I keep my tank at 10dKH, that would cause a temporary fluctuation every water change, which I'm assuming is not going to make for happy SPS.

 

By chance are you using RSCP?

 

Nope. I'm purchasing premixed water from my LFS for the time being (I'm trying to cut out as many variables as possible). They use Instant Ocean.

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callmesaul8889

Maybe move to a more NSW mixture. Look at Aqua Vitro salt.

 

I will move back to ESV salt mix once my tank gets back to a normal state.

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60% on all channels at the moment. I got tired of playing with the levels, so I'm keeping it at this setting until I can figure out the coloration, etc.

 

Mag was 1380 last I checked. I will get an updated reading tonight.

 

I will start checking my alk 3x a week to get an idea for how much it fluctuates in the system. Should I try to bring my tank alk down to the level that my water change water is at? My fresh saltwater reads about 9dKH. If I keep my tank at 10dKH, that would cause a temporary fluctuation every water change, which I'm assuming is not going to make for happy SPS.

 

 

Nope. I'm purchasing premixed water from my LFS for the time being (I'm trying to cut out as many variables as possible). They use Instant Ocean.

 

I would bring the Alk down to where your water changes want it.

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callmesaul8889

So I've been changing 2 cups of water per day to bring my alkalinity down to 9.7dKH. I've tested alk, phosphate, and nitrate all week this week. My nitrate keeps climbing, phosphate is pegged at 0ppm regardless of my dosing NeoPhos daily, and I'm still seeing poor coloration and polyp extension on my zoas and sunset montipora. Should I be worried about my nitrate level shooting up so high?

 

Album of pics: http://imgur.com/a/9CQBl

 

I posted a FTS so you can get an idea of how little algae I have. I haven't cleaned the glass in over a week and I feed 2x a day. How should I proceed?

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Howdy,

 

The salifert PO4 test is good, but won't detect really low levels. Are you doing 20ml, 8 drops, and 2 scoops (double resolution)?

 

Nitrates isn't horrible yet but you need to start trying to get them down. You're trapped with that toy salt into a very high KH but you need to do a fairly decent water change to get the nitrates down.

 

I see you're bare bottom, do you clean up the detritus on a regular basis? If so this is probably why your PO4 is so low, you're cleaning up. :) This isn't a bad thing but it means the water is really clean and you need to feed more. Here's the thing about SPS ... they want good parameters but they need micro food in the water to eat or they will starve (get pale) and sometimes die. Reef Roids might help, or dosing something like Fuel or Kent Coral Accel. Both will add phosphate along with food SPS like.

 

It's a balancing act and not as easy as avoiding SPS. Some people just have a knack at doing it right while others, like me, are constantly struggling to find the balance of feeding heavily enough yet at the same time exporting enough to avoid high levels of PO4 and NO3.

 

Good luck. :)

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callmesaul8889

Howdy,

 

The salifert PO4 test is good, but won't detect really low levels. Are you doing 20ml, 8 drops, and 2 scoops (double resolution)?

 

Nitrates isn't horrible yet but you need to start trying to get them down. You're trapped with that toy salt into a very high KH but you need to do a fairly decent water change to get the nitrates down.

 

I see you're bare bottom, do you clean up the detritus on a regular basis? If so this is probably why your PO4 is so low, you're cleaning up. :) This isn't a bad thing but it means the water is really clean and you need to feed more. Here's the thing about SPS ... they want good parameters but they need micro food in the water to eat or they will starve (get pale) and sometimes die. Reef Roids might help, or dosing something like Fuel or Kent Coral Accel. Both will add phosphate along with food SPS like.

 

It's a balancing act and not as easy as avoiding SPS. Some people just have a knack at doing it right while others, like me, are constantly struggling to find the balance of feeding heavily enough yet at the same time exporting enough to avoid high levels of PO4 and NO3.

 

Good luck. :)

 

 

I'm not doing a double resolution test, I will start that tonight.

 

What do you mean by "you're trapped with that toy salt into a very high KH..."? Do you mean I need to do a large water change to bring the nitrate down, but need to stabalize dKH first? I should have my tank's alkalinity matching my mixed water's alk before the end of the week.

 

I do have a bare bottom, but I haven't siphoned anything from the bottom of the tank in weeks, maybe months now. It definitely seems like my SPS are starving, but nothing that I've fed has increased phosphate at all. Would Reef Roids or Kent Coral Accel be a massively different type of food source from LRS Reef Frenzy, Copepod Max, and Coral Frenzy?

 

Also, why wouldn't directly dosing phosphorus raise my phosphate level even a slight bit? I'm dosing per instructions on the NeoPhos bottle and it claims that the dose I'm using will raise my phosphate level up to .03ppm after one day. I'm still seeing 0.00ppm even after 7 days of daily dosing.

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So I've been changing 2 cups of water per day to bring my alkalinity down to 9.7dKH. I've tested alk, phosphate, and nitrate all week this week. My nitrate keeps climbing, phosphate is pegged at 0ppm regardless of my dosing NeoPhos daily, and I'm still seeing poor coloration and polyp extension on my zoas and sunset montipora. Should I be worried about my nitrate level shooting up so high?

 

Album of pics: http://imgur.com/a/9CQBl

 

I posted a FTS so you can get an idea of how little algae I have. I haven't cleaned the glass in over a week and I feed 2x a day. How should I proceed?

Have you tried a different type of Phos test? Maybe your test is bad.

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I'm not doing a double resolution test, I will start that tonight.

 

What do you mean by "you're trapped with that toy salt into a very high KH..."? Do you mean I need to do a large water change to bring the nitrate down, but need to stabalize dKH first? I should have my tank's alkalinity matching my mixed water's alk before the end of the week.

 

I do have a bare bottom, but I haven't siphoned anything from the bottom of the tank in weeks, maybe months now. It definitely seems like my SPS are starving, but nothing that I've fed has increased phosphate at all. Would Reef Roids or Kent Coral Accel be a massively different type of food source from LRS Reef Frenzy, Copepod Max, and Coral Frenzy?

 

Also, why wouldn't directly dosing phosphorus raise my phosphate level even a slight bit? I'm dosing per instructions on the NeoPhos bottle and it claims that the dose I'm using will raise my phosphate level up to .03ppm after one day. I'm still seeing 0.00ppm even after 7 days of daily dosing.

 

Keep in mind this is my opinion. :)

 

Red Sea Coral Pro has crazy high parameters that may work ok for non SPS tanks or tanks where you use small water changes similar to 2 part dosing but when things go bad you're stuck. Your tank uses Alk, either the coraline or the corals or both. Imagine Alk falling .5KH a day and then after a week you do a water change with salt that is 14 KH. Tank might be down to 10 or lower and you spike KH when doing the water change. Some corals can handle this without a problem but SPS tend to stress and eventually die.

 

So if you decide you want SPS the first goal is to keep KH stable and the salt immediately becomes an issue. IMO KH sould be kept in a range of 8 to 9, not 14.

 

As far as phoshpates go, I don't trust the test kit. Do the double resolution test and double check the expiration date on the box. :)

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