Hammerstone Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 As you may know, I'm new and haven't gotten any corals yet but I want a zoa garden. I have heard that if an anenome dies it willl nuke the whole tank. Do Zoas do that too? Link to comment
ReefWeeds Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 As you may know, I'm new and haven't gotten any corals yet but I want a zoa garden. I have heard that if an anenome does it will nuke the whole tank. Do Zias do that too? I've had a few zoa frags melt away and no adverse reaction from what I can tell. But, if you end up losing a whole bunch at once (or losing a lot of anything all at once, including an anemone), if you don't pull it out quickly, you're going to have problems. The key is just keeping track of your tank and if something is dead, remove it. Goes for snails, etc. Link to comment
VW_TDI_02 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Not necessarily. Even if an anemone dies, that doesn't mean that you're going to nuke the tank. The big thing is getting the dead stuff out of the tank. Anemone are large fleshy organisms and all of that will begin to decompose and cause an ammonia spike which is what you want to avoid. Losing a single zoa polyp will not nuke your whole tank either. Between the skimmer and carbon, your filtration should be able to handle any poisons that get into the water column. Link to comment
Jackal_Knight Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Nope I you'll be fine if a zoas dies. Sea apples on the other hand will nuke your tank pretty bad Link to comment
Cencalfishguy56 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Not necessarily. Even if an anemone dies, that doesn't mean that you're going to nuke the tank. The big thing is getting the dead stuff out of the tank. Anemone are large fleshy organisms and all of that will begin to decompose and cause an ammonia spike which is what you want to avoid. Losing a single zoa polyp will not nuke your whole tank either. Between the skimmer and carbon, your filtration should be able to handle any poisons that get into the water column. You'd have to be non observant to have an anemone nuke your tank ahah from my experience you can tell when one is falling apart fairly easy Link to comment
charnelhouse Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 This question made me curious as I have also heard of "nuke-your-tank-if-they-die" species, but don't know all of them or how many there are. A search for "list of toxic aquarium species" yields some interesting results: "palytoxin, a speciality of zoanthids, and the second deadliest poison in the natural world. One gram of the stuff will kill more than a hundred million mice." http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/04/05/worlds-2nd-deadliest-poison-in-an-aquarium-store-near-you/#.VZ7pRPlVhBc "Many factors play into unexplained deaths of animals in our tanks, so assigning blame to one factor is rarely easy to do. Infection by bacteria, fungi, or virus is always a possibility as is the presence of toxins and toxicants or even something as supposedly obvious as ectoparasites." http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/4/aafeature Other search results: http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Lawler_Toxic_Algae.html http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+24+68&pcatid=68 http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+502+715&pcatid=715 http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/what-to-consider-when-keeping-toxic-marine-fish-2359/ http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/aquarium-science-palytoxin-and-you-how-and-why-to-avoid-a-deadly-zoanthid-toxin.htm "16. Boxfish, Cowfish, Long Horns (Ostraciidae, Lactoria) Fascinating and beautiful yet deadly; cute little Cowfish like Lactoria cornuta can easily wipe out your entire fish population when they suddenly release killer toxins into the water column. Any type of stress can trigger this "ostracitoxin slime bomb," including being transferred in a bag to your tank or simply being harassed by another fish. You have been warned; although highly prized for their coloration, Boxfish species like Ostracion meleagris have earned the nickname "nuke fish" for good reason--please don't gamble with your other livestock." http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_marine_fish.php http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/venomomouscare/a/aa042798.htm http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/fishprofilesindex/tp/poisonousfishhub.htm Any other info from knowledgeable sources is appreciated. Link to comment
VW_TDI_02 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 "palytoxin, a speciality of zoanthids, and the second deadliest poison in the natural world. One gram of the stuff will kill more than a hundred million mice." http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/04/05/worlds-2nd-deadliest-poison-in-an-aquarium-store-near-you/#.VZ7pRPlVhBc I would love to see how much palytoxin is in a head of a zoa/paly. From what I've seen, not all of them have it and I highly doubt one head contains anywhere near a gram of it. Link to comment
charnelhouse Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I would love to see how much palytoxin is in a head of a zoa/paly. From what I've seen, not all of them have it and I highly doubt one head contains anywhere near a gram of it. Probably not, but a hundred MILLION is a shit-ton of mice.... Not sure if I linked it, but one of the articles I found was about a well known RC poster trying to boil some palys and breathing the steam. He ended up in the emergency room and on an inhaler for almost two months. In other words, it almost killed him just breathing some steam with the toxin in it. Yikes. Edit: I did link it. It's the article the quote about the mice is from. Link to comment
Hammerstone Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 BTW I did read all this stuff some time ago and it scared the ?$&@ out of me and made me scared to have Zoas. But I think if we wear gloves and eye protection and close our mouths we'll be okay. So I changed my mind and decided to eventually set up a Zoa garden and I will just be super careful. I know nothing about fragging, so I don't know what I would do should I need to do it. I've read a lot about fragging and it sounds really hard. Im just not going to put open wounds in my tank and keep handling to the utmost minimum. Link to comment
NYfishies Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 At RAP Julian spoke on Paly toxin. Most of what you think are Paly are actually Zoas. The toxin in Zoas is quite low while there can be very high levels in some Paly's. You should always where eye gear and gloves. Never boil a rock that MAY have a zoa/paly. Never pressure wash one either. If it sprays into the air you can breathe it in and end up in the hospital. Link to comment
nanolutionary Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 This guy nearly killed his entire family by boiling a few zoas on live rock on a stove: Check it out! http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2253493 Link to comment
Hammerstone Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 That's hard core!!! Poor people, and doggies. I wonder if there are any confirmed deaths. I haven't come across any in my reading. My husband got stung by a bristleworm and he said it was quite painful, he now wears gloves always and so do I. There are so many poisonous things in the ocean that we take for granted in our tanks. I used airline tubing to help suck up cyanobacteria when I was cycling the tank and I kept using my mouth to start the flow. Crown me stupid. I did get some water in my mouth. It was efficient but dumb. We were told by our LFS that this was a good way to just get the cyanobacteria out. My conch has a switchblade thing that he mostly uses to move around along with his foot. I wouldn't want to be impaled with that. Anyone know about conches and if they can impale you with that thing? I'm always careful. Link to comment
Neebles Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Wow that's crazy! Another reason I keep my hands out of the tank. I have long grabber things I can use to move frags and Rock around if need be, and all my water changes are done via my sump. My sump holds about 20% of my total water volume so I drain it, and put the new water right back in. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Lol Ive never worn gloves and never worried about it.... Thanks for making me paranoid! Link to comment
Neebles Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Lol Ive never worn gloves and never worried about it.... Thanks for making me paranoid! I wasn't either until one day I pulled a frag plug out with a few zoas on it, grabbed it the wrong way and it literally squirted some sort of liquid out. Luckily it shot out away from me....it may have been water or whatever but it was enough for me to say, not gonna do that again. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I wasn't either until one day I pulled a frag plug out with a few zoas on it, grabbed it the wrong way and it literally squirted some sort of liquid out. Luckily it shot out away from me....it may have been water or whatever but it was enough for me to say, not gonna do that again. But....... I thought just Palys or certain special Zoas had poison! Ive never had a rxn with Anemones, Zoas, LPS, SPS, etc. My only tank-related serious issue was when my dog ate a bag of salt and had to get IV fluids, but he's just an idiot Link to comment
charnelhouse Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Probably my fault, but we're drifting a little off topic here. The original questions was "Will a dead polyp nuke my tank?" I don't think his question had to do with the standard answer that anything dead in your tank is bad due to decay. It's good to know that leaving anything dead in your tank is bad. But not everything that dies in there is going to release poison into the water as a biological function. I think the OP was asking if a zoa/paly dying releases toxins in the tank that will kill other inhabitants. To my understanding, that is NOT the case. But there ARE aquarium denizens that WILL release toxins if they are harassed/die and can nuke a tank. Does anybody have/know of a comprehensive list of marine critters that can nuke a tank by poisoning it? Some definites from my links above: Many boxfish Some sea apples/cucumbers I'm sure there are more. Link to comment
charnelhouse Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 A large fish, an anemone, and hundreds more. Any critter can nuke a tank if it rots too long and pollutes the water Harry, did you READ the post? Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Harry, did you READ the post? Oh whoops I just read the last line, "Does anybody have/know of a comprehensive list of marine critters that can nuke a tank by poisoning it?" Link to comment
charnelhouse Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh whoops I just read the last line, "Does anybody have/know of a comprehensive list of marine critters that can nuke a tank by poisoning it?" Yeah, well I hope you read more than the last line on important stuff. Job applications. Recipes. Condom directions. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yeah, well I hope you read more than the last line on important stuff. Job applications. Recipes. Condom directions. First and last lines contain 99% of the useful information, no? Link to comment
charnelhouse Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 First and last lines contain 99% of the useful information, no? Ummmm, no. Link to comment
Cencalfishguy56 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 No it will not nuke your tank, done. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 No it will not nuke your tank, done. Link to comment
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