ceramic rings and live rock

[elusianzxelo]

Hello guys,

I recently got an JBJ Nano Cube 28 and it has been running for 1 month and 3 weeks now, I just got over an bacterial bloom, the water is much more clear now, but I think it still need a bit more time before the bacterial bloom goes away for good.

 

I do have other question. It seems like I am having problem keeping the nitrate down to zero, my test result after the water change is always between 10ppm to 20ppm, I am currently using an API Saltwater Master Test Kit, I normally do an 5 gallon water change on my tank per week, I wanted to do an 50% water change, but I was told because of my bacterial bloom, I should slow down the water change a bit, I am currently using the stock filter that comes with the tank which contains a sponge, ceramic rings and carbon, my question is that could it be possible that my nitrate remain this high, is because of my ceramic rings? If yes, should I remove it all at once? or little by little? Below is what I have so far in my tank, your feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

Tank : JBJ Nano Cube 28

45 lbs of live rocks

25 lbs of Arag-alive Aragonite Reef Sand

2 black and white Ocellaris clownfish(Juvenile)

1 six line wrasse

1 fire goby

3 cleaning shrimp

8 Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab

6 turbo snails

 

 

[CJJon]

A big water change can help a bloom IMO. Not sure who told you not to do a WC. You have a ton of livestock in a brand new tank. Probably should have waited a bit until things stabilized a bit more. What is ammonia level?

 

I'd ditch the sponge and rings and get some filter floss (polyester pillow stuffing). Get a big bag and change it out every other day. Place before carbon.

[elusianzxelo]

I did an 50% water change when I first got the bloom, then I start to do 5 g per week, it got much better now. I also order some filter floss which will come in on the 26th, I will replace the sponge with the filter floss, but should I remove the rings? I feel like the reason why my nitrate wont drop is because of it, I saw something online that these rings sometime will cost more Nitrate, if I should remove the ring, should I do it little by little or just remove it completed since the water has already cycled? My reading now is ammonia 0 nitrite 0 and nitrate 10 to 20ppm. The ammonia and nitrite has been stable for sometime now. I just would like to know if I remove the rings is it going to cost my tank to crash?

[CronicReefer]

Ceramic media only becomes an issue if you are allowing detritus to clog the poors of the ceramic rings. Just wash them in tank water once every month and they should stay nice and clean. Personally I prefer Brightwell Xport-Bio and Xport-NO3

[CJJon]

Ceramic media only becomes an issue if you are allowing detritus to clog the poors of the ceramic rings. Just wash them in tank water once every month and they should stay nice and clean. Personally I prefer Brightwell Xport-Bio and Xport-NO3

 

That should read "Ceramic media WILL become an issue when detritus clogs the pores of the ceramic rings."

 

Ceramic media is a PITA to keep in a back chamber of an AIO. It's messy and it is not necessary at all. My back chambers are bare except for some floss and media (if I am using any).

[CJJon]

I did an 50% water change when I first got the bloom, then I start to do 5 g per week, it got much better now. I also order some filter floss which will come in on the 26th, I will replace the sponge with the filter floss, but should I remove the rings? I feel like the reason why my nitrate wont drop is because of it, I saw something online that these rings sometime will cost more Nitrate, if I should remove the ring, should I do it little by little or just remove it completed since the water has already cycled? My reading now is ammonia 0 nitrite 0 and nitrate 10 to 20ppm. The ammonia and nitrite has been stable for sometime now. I just would like to know if I remove the rings is it going to cost my tank to crash?

 

I doubt it will crash your tank removing them. LOL! You have 45 pounds of live rock, you don't need the rings at all! You can remove them no problem. Really, make your life easier and ditch the rings. Way easier to keep the back chambers clean.

 

Also, water does not cycle. There is very little nitrifying bacteria in your water column. You could do a 100% water change and not effect your bio filter at all. Right now water changes will help with lowering your nitrate. Well, that and not over feeding and cleaning up any leftover food. Your nitrate is high because you have a brand new tank. Right now water changes are your best bet for lowering them.

 

One other thing, where do you get your water, both salt and fresh for top off? Have you tested both for nitrates? Often some unscrupulous LFS will sell old water they get from doing a water change and it may have nitrate in it (among other things). This is where the term "cycled water" comes from.

[HarryPotter]

UV Sterilizers are also very helpful for dealing with bacterial blooms, so I've heard.

 

JBJ sells one that fits in the back chamber, although I don't know how well it works.

[CronicReefer]

 

That should read "Ceramic media WILL become an issue when detritus clogs the pores of the ceramic rings."

 

Ceramic media is a PITA to keep in a back chamber of an AIO. It's messy and it is not necessary at all. My back chambers are bare except for some floss and media (if I am using any).

I guess it must be hard for you to figure out where to put the filter floss then with an ignorant statement like that. I've never had an issue with detritus clogging ceramic media (it isn't that difficult to clean anyway) and I've used several different types. It isn't necessary for everyone but it certainly is in mine.

[CJJon]

I guess it must be hard for you to figure out where to put the filter floss then with an ignorant statement like that. I've never had an issue with detritus clogging ceramic media (it isn't that difficult to clean anyway) and I've used several different types. It isn't necessary for everyone but it certainly is in mine.

 

LOL!

 

Ceramic media is not necessary when you have 45 lbs of live rock and 25 pounds of sand in a 28 gallon tank! I know where to put filter floss, but what about when I don't want to run any floss? Should not be hard for you to figure out when that might be.

 

Perhaps I am ignorant but I'd rather be an ignorant fool than a dick like you.

[ajmckay]

+1 test your water change water before adding it to your system just to make sure that number is where you want it.

 

IMO 10-20 nitrates isn't completely horrible though...

 

Ultimately there are so many sources of waste in a tank that it's not always possible (or healthy for the inhabitants) to limit what you introduce through feeding and such.

 

Other than water changes options are nitrate removing media, macroalgae, protein skimming, and cleaning stuff up in general (siphoning detritus more frequently, changing filter sponge more often, increasing the amount of flow in the tank, etc...).

 

Regarding the ceramic rings, I don't think anyone here can say if that's a contributor to your problem or not. I've had tanks with and without ceramic filter media and go figure I've had nutrient export issues with both at one point or another! So the general consensus is that ceramic filter media becomes a detritus trap, but that really depends on how often you clean them off.

 

In conclusion I doubt that taking these ceramic rings out will have a drastic effect on your persisting level of nitrates but honestly you won't know unless you try it. Assuming it's only a small amount then it's probably okay to remove them in fairly short order, maybe in 2 batches or even all at once if you like. I think your best bet will be to use a combination of things with the manual work such as water changes and more frequent maintenance having a more significant impact.

[xmas_one]

Just to echo the prior post, 20ppm NO3 is really not a huge deal. If you're using the API test kit, changes are pretty good its not even 20ppm, calibrating your test kit or trying a better test kit may be a good idea before making rash changes. I would also ditch the rings/sponge/carbon as well.

[elusianzxelo]

hello guys,

 

thank you for all your feedback on this, so far this is what I been doing, let me know if I miss anything. =)

 

1. replacing the sponge with filter floss(will arrive on 06/26/15) The filter floss will be replaced daily at least till I have everything under control.

2. dumped the rings last night

3. 10% water change weekly(clean the sand as well)

4. feed once every 3 days with filter off(enough for a 3 to 4 mins feeding)

5. in regarding on the water I use, I get them at the local fish store, both salt and ro/di water and do test the water with my test kit before I put them in my tank, it comes out clean.

 

When I took out the rings yesterday, I notice a really bad seafood smell, I start to think that might be the reason why I am having the nitrate issue, and since I have that much live rocks, I assume I will not need those. Thank you for all your help guys,

[ajmckay]

Sounds good, except I don't agree as much with limiting the feeding. Feeding no doubt adds nutrients to the tank, but it's an important part of it's health as well. IMO it's okay to temporarily reduce feeding but not a good solution really.

 

If you're concerned about your feeding contributing to the nitrates I would first choose a higher quality food. Flake and Pellets IME are the worst offenders for having high phosphate content. So I typically feed frozen cubes - I put a few cubes into a container and suck out as much of the water possible after thawing - this leaves just the larger food chunks (I intentionally leave some particles though to feed the filter feeders).

 

Second is to actually INCREASE the number of feedings. Feed smaller amounts 2x per day (what they can eat in 1 min or less) and that will both benefit the fish and also reduce the amount of waste introduced to the system from food. Also try to "target feed" each fish so for example if you have a fish that likes to eat at the bottom either use some larger pieces that sink or use a baster or something to get the food to the bottom quickly.

 

Feeding a lot every 3 days might seem like a good idea but in reality probably results in more waste and it's not as healthy for the inhabitants. They tend to get sluggish, lose color, and become more susceptible to disease - happens gradually so it's not like you notice as much. Plus if you time it wrong and miss a feeding you could go a week without feeding.

[elusianzxelo]

good point, I actually came across some issue yesterday with my tank(LOL), I notice that there was an empty crab shell on the sand at the front of my tank, I grab it and notice that the crab is gone, then I notice that there are two separate pieces of crab legs one on the right side of the tank and one at the left side of the tank, I went ahead and removed the small piece of crab legs, and started to prep my water to do a water change, then I notice that all three fishes(two clowns and the six lines) are going for the legs very aggressively, wonder why the crab died, my water has been fine beside my nitrate being around 10-20ppm, I wonder maybe the crab get attacked by the fishes while it was looking for a new shell or molting? But I do notice that I should feed them a bit more then once every three days, maybe light feeding with my filter off once a day.

[CJJon]

Sure it wasn't a molt? It looks like a dead crab. Check around, it may have switched shells too.

[elusianzxelo]

I took out the legs, that is all I was able to see, but the original shell is empty. The fishes was eating the hell of the legs.

[elusianzxelo]

Wow guys this filter floss really work like a champ...i am going to replace it daily but my water is 90% clear

[Exodus]

 

That should read "Ceramic media WILL become an issue when detritus clogs the pores of the ceramic rings."

 

Ceramic media is a PITA to keep in a back chamber of an AIO. It's messy and it is not necessary at all. My back chambers are bare except for some floss and media (if I am using any).

Same thing goes for live rock. Ceramic rings just act as a surface for bacteria to grow and pods to breed, where live rock being much more porous has the advantage. Either way Ceramic Rings or Live rock being kept in the back of an AIO should only be done if in a mesh bag that way they can easily be removed and clean, if not they will both trap detritus and will make it a pain to clean out those rear chambers.

[elusianzxelo]

the rings was in the mesh bag, but i just dont feel the need to have it any more because of the amount of the live rock i have, its just going to give me issue. i replace the stupid sponge with the filter floss, the water is now 99% clear, killer result and killer prices. Sponge 2 pack (8.99 bucks) vs 20feet roll of filter floss(8.99 plus shipping = usd17), and the filter floss is white, gives me a good idea if crap is trapped in it and when is the good time to change them. Everyone should get them!!! =) I will post my pic soon to give you an update on my tank, hopefully in months, I can start getting coral.

 

one question, what is the best carbon on the market? Any idea? I am thinking about leaving the stock carbon they sell for jbj nano as well.

[elusianzxelo]

Hi guys,

 

What you guys think about Chemi Pure Blue, I heard a lot of good things about them. I would like to see maybe if I should replace my stock carbon with Chemi Pure Blue? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

[Partially Submerged]

I don't understand your guys' problem with ceramic discs. I have a freshwater tank with a Eheim 2217 canister filter that I clean every couple of months. Months! And there is never any detritus in the discs. I also use a bag of them in my 4g refugium (SW), and I get no clogging issues either. The point of filtration is stages. Mechanical filtration first (i.e. floss, sponge, etc.) then biological media like ceramic discs. I like them because they have a ton of surface and are light, easy to handle, and last forever. The last thing I would do is remove biological filtration from an overstocked tank.

[CJJon]

I don't understand your guys' problem with ceramic discs. I have a freshwater tank with a Eheim 2217 canister filter that I clean every couple of months. Months! And there is never any detritus in the discs. I also use a bag of them in my 4g refugium (SW), and I get no clogging issues either. The point of filtration is stages. Mechanical filtration first (i.e. floss, sponge, etc.) then biological media like ceramic discs. I like them because they have a ton of surface and are light, easy to handle, and last forever. The last thing I would do is remove biological filtration from an overstocked tank.

 

Don't understand or disagree? Perhaps I can help clarify. Please let me know the specific points below that you don't understand or do not agree with.

 

Lose ceramic disks in the back chambers of an AIO usually cause problems with detritus build up. They are hard to clean when so used and can become a source for stubborn nitrates. In a 28g AIO tank that has 45lbs of LR and 25lbs of LS in the DT, ceramic media in the back chambers are absolutely not necessary. People tend to not keep up on cleaning schedules and using something that is not necessary and needs to be regularly cleaned is just not wise.

 

Sure, they can be made to work in all sorts of systems, but for the most part they are not necessary. Certainly they are not in the OP's situation. Why recommend something that is not needed and requires a bunch of if's, and's and but's?

 

I'm glad using ceramic media in your freshwater canister filter and your 4g salty fuge, but that is not what the OP was talking about.

[Partially Submerged]

The OP's main questions seemed to be answered, so I was just jumping in on the ceramic disc conversation. Ceramic discs are one of the best biological filter media available. If you want additional biological filtration in your filter, they are a great option. Ceramic discs are not a "source" of nitrate. When they get clogged up, your system can lose its balance, and high nitrate may be a consequence, but that's the same for pretty much any mucky situation in a tank. And again: Placement is key. If your filter works properly, you will have stages. When you have stages, there is no need for your biological filtration media to get very dirty at all. In a sump, that's a bit of a different story, of course, but the OP was talking about a Nano Cube stock filter.

[elusianzxelo]

Well guys after couple weeks without the rings, with several water testing, with amount of liverocks i got....the ring is not needed, they both do the same job, so therefore it will be smart to move the ring cause how food can get stuck in there and produce nitrate, after some adjustment and changes on my carbon, my nitrate is at 5 ppm!!! Very happy with my result and i cannot wait all turn to zero.

This is not my first saltwater tank, i had a 10 g, 55g then this nano cube, i never use rings and had always use live rocks and old school filter like bio wheel, so this is the first time i come accross this issue, but seems like prob all solved, thanx!!

[elusianzxelo]

Anyone who ever have an radion pro xr15w? Would like to see if is good enough on my nano cube 28 for soft and lps coral

Planning buying it in two weeks witha mesh screen kit