I've made a terrible mistake...new tank and fish and anemone

[snugglepanda]

Total newcomer here. Feeling very dumb. I went to the LFS as someone who likes to look at the fish, fell in love with a little pico reef at the store and asked the sales associate what I needed if I wanted to set one up.

 

I walked out with the following:

-Fluval underwater filter: 110L (30 US Gal)

-Fluval Sea Marine and Reef Multi Spectrum LED System (5-10 US Gal) 25000k 14W

-4lbs of Pukani Live Rock

-live crushed coral substrate

-1 Bubble tip anemone

-1 sm. ocellaris clownfish

-heater

-10 gal premix saltwater

 

The tank I have is a 5.5gal rectangular.

 

Not sure why the LFS recommended a fish and an anemone as I am reading that I should not have an anemone in a 5 gal in the first place. Also should not have any fish until the tank has stabilized.

I realize that I should have done my research/have made a mistake and am looking for any and all advice to keep these critters alive and happy if possible.

 

I got some test kits and these are my levels after 3 days of having the tank:

ph 8.0

ammonia 0.50

nitrite 0

nitrate 0

has not completed the nitrogen cycle yet at all

 

Fish and anemone are eating and look very happy. Anemone has found a place where he would like to stay. Clownfish is about 1 inch in length.

 

Sorry for doing this all wrong!

 

 

 

[atrox]

Not you're fault, you are no where close to having living animals in that tank. Tank hasn't even finished cycle. Take anything alive you bought back to the lfs. Get you're money back and I would not return to that store. Anemones are one of the more difficult animals to keep alive, and require a mature tank. This hobby is supposed to be fun and that store should be blacklisted for selling you live stock. You're tank is going to be toxic for the next week or two. Ammonia levels will make it impossible for animals to breathe, and once the anemone starts to die which it will the water will be even more toxic. Here's what you need to do.

1. Return livestock

2. Read, read, read, ask questions, and read some more.

3. Take a deep breath, read some more.

4. Return livestock if you haven't already.

5. Read some more

(I still can't believe they sold you a bubble tip and a fish the same day you bought the setup)

 

What did you feed the anemone? Please don't say algae pellets.

 

We getting trolled here?

[CronicReefer]

You should take the fish and anemone back asap. Your ammonia is going to continue to rise and will most likely kill the anemone and cause harm to the fishes gills. You need to read about the nitrogen cycle and establish that in your tank before adding any livestock. Ammonia in any measurable amount is damaging your livestock already and it will get worse before it gets better.

[snugglepanda]

Thank you for your advice! Was not aware that I could return the livestock. Will do that this morning and get to reading! Looking forward to this hobby and to doing things the right way.

[atrox]

You may not get you're money back, so don't be surprised as this store sounds shady. I would let them know that they lost you're business and you were taken advantage of. No worries, I do most of my ordering online for corals/fish so don't feel like you are stuck with that store. We are all here to help. You got questions ask, in the meantime there are a ton of great threads here to read on proper setup, cycling, stocking, and everything else. Keep you're head up, and you're already heading in the right direction for posting on this site. Nothing happens quickly in this hobby and paitence is everything. The waiting game sucks, but you'll be rewarded with healthy animals and lifelong hobby as a result.

[snugglepanda]

to atrox: Trust me, I'm the one who got trolled at the store. They sold me marine snow for the anemone. Which wasn't right I dont think because theyre supposed to like meaty things. So I target fed him some thawed mysis shrimp.

[atrox]

to atrox: Trust me, I'm the one who got trolled at the store. They sold me marine snow for the anemone. Which wasn't right I dont think because theyre supposed to like meaty things. So I target fed him some thawed mysis shrimp.

My god!!!! This store has no ethics at all. Tons I have to say about this, but to save you a soap box rant return what you can and RUN from this store. We will get you sorted out.

[rturiak]

Impulse purchases happen, trust me.. I'm glad you realized your mistake and came to us being honest and wanting to learn from it. Get those animals back to the store and let's get your tank cycled. Good job on doing it right and not making those animals suffer through a cycle

[Mariaface]

+1 on returning the livestock.

 

Then, since your tank is small and you seem to want fish, invest in some ammonium chloride (no additives at all, try Dr Tims or something) and a bacterial supplement. You need to make sure your tank can process 1-2ppm of ammonia in under 24 hours, so you'll need a test kit (API should suffice) for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Make sure your tank cycles well.

 

And when it has cycled, make sure any fish you get are premeditated. There aren't many that'll fit into a 5.5gal, especially considering that once you've got rock and sand in there a bunch of water's going to get displaced. Consider invertebrates instead?

 

Good luck!

[SchnauzerFace]

I think a small clown goby is about all that I'd be comfortable putting in the 5.5g.

 

If the store absolutely positively won't take back the livestock, you could try adding a bottle of Bio-spira and hoping that works. I feel like it's cruel to cycle a tank with a fish, even when adding bottled nitrifying bacteria. But if you literally have no other options, it could keep your clown alive. The anemone won't survive in that tank, regardless of how much Bio-spira you dump in there. Hopefully they'll take it back or you can find someone in the area to keep him.

 

Bulk Reef Supply has several videos about starting a new tank on their YouTube channel (BRSTV). I find them extremely clear, helpful and accurate. I disagree with their suggestion of cycling a tank with a fish & Bio-spira, but it does work for many. I think it's unnecessary stress to the fish, however.

 

Above all else, never ever ever ever go back to that LFS again!

[joy13]

They may not take back the livestock if that is the case look for someone local with an established aquarium that will take them, maybe they have a quarantine tank set up they can use for them.

[CronicReefer]

If the store refuses I would just leave it on the counter and walk out and never come back. Then they have no choice but to take it back.

[brandon429]

I read this thread totally different. for 15 yrs i skipped all cycles on all my pico reefs, even the current one i have

 

 

bringing home live rock means you can skip a cycle, not sometimes, but 100% of the time if you dont immediately overstock w anem and fish. you could have very easily brought home some easy corals tho, like I said, its been done 15 yrs and w be done 15 more, i never wait for cycles I skip all of them.

 

We have threads here where keepers disassemble an entire reef, set the rocks out on a towel to work onthem 20 mins, then put it all back together, no cycle, this is the same.

 

all we need is pics of that pretty live rock to see. the anem and fish is too much initial bioload agreed.

[Mariaface]

I read this thread totally different. for 15 yrs i skipped all cycles on all my pico reefs, even the current longest living one in the world, i just didnt put in anems and a fish

 

 

Oh, life finds a way! But to minimize stress, ammonia burns, death of rock inhabitants, etc, I'd definitely supplement bacteria and neutralize ammonia with something like Prime. And if I can dose the ammonia that represents my bioload goal, even better; no struggling for the bacteria to catch up once the livestock has been added.

[brandon429]

take back the fish and anem and get to reefing a little lighter.

 

 

The live rock bacteria is as full with zero fish as it is with 3 that's important to know, the way you tell is by seeing if coralline had time to set in place (need pics)

With roughly 6 football fields worth flat surface area all the areas of live rock that have coralline are colonized, no area is sterile, lr doesn't play catch up, its bacteria is rather constant regardless of minor changes we make. Only dry rock is like what you are mentioning.

 

There is no ammonia burning or need for a cycle when using live rock and easy starter coral, when the rock is transported correctly, just wanting to note its an option, cycles from live rock are options if we know how.

 

 

 

 

we don't advocate using fish in the new picos for a skip cycle just one or two simple corals so that your tank doesn't have any real bioload and no real ammonia source that's all.I do agree too much bioload was used initially here but I wanted to state that depending on pics no cycle would be needed, just a realistic bioload.

 

As a new keeper the hedge is to change water often, and in large volumes not small volumes. learning how to take command over the full water column by doing correct wc w save many upcoming errors. The only returns needed are the anem and fish, then post pics, see how stable you can keep temps and salinity for a month, then easy starter coral no fish yet.

 

 

if this was not live rock then its null and void. im going off only the descrip and the very possibly reaching second assumption her lfs wouldn't send her home with dry rock lol

 

if its aged w coralline, they actually aren't terrible offbase in concept just not the anem and fish for sure... They needed to advocate simply good wc and stability first mo and to watch the life forms brought in on lr as the new animals, keep them alive for a while, move up.

 

advice to add dead shrimp or extra ammonia to corallined lr aslo may not be right, need pics if poss. I bet its all ret by now tho

[snugglepanda]

**UPDATE**

Thank you for all of your generous responses.

Clown and anem are on their way to a new home this evening, as returning to the fish store was not an option?!? Found someone willing to take on my mistake and for that I commend them. Here are some photos as requested of the live rock and full setup (picture it without the clown/anem). I think with your help I am headed in the right direction. Added the BioSpira to help out clown for the day.

 

testing (API)

ph 8.0

ammonia 0.25

nitrite 0

nitrate 0

 

gravity 1.022

 

 

[brandon429]

Excellent pics and return work for the fish

 

 

this hobby is about finding happy mediums, im glad you didnt take whole tank back. its savable.

 

that anem though is still a challenge, though low bioload they require decent feed intake, whats your plans for it

 

though the rocks have limited coralline, and therefore aren't home run good like all purple premium rock would be, you've zoomed in on live benthic creatures that indicate submersion, and therefore some inherent nitrogen cycle abilities. the zero nitrate only means not much in the system yet, it doesnt mean unable to register it. this is a low protein system currently, until feeding begins, we need to relocate that anem for a while or take special measures to keep it if thats the plan.

i just read about new home anem sorry, work lol.

 

I think your main limiter of bacteria is porosity of that rock not submersion time. it looks like base rock not puk

[atrox]

That light would have been underpowered for the anemone as well. Salinity is on low side as well.

[brandon429]

nice catch i didnt even see that. well put.

 

IMO heres the follow up actions, things to do w the tank and rocks as is:

 

Reference your particular light to actual threads where corals are kept under it, search and look for ones a few mos to a year established under your lights, most zoanthids and caulastrea and appropriate starter corals are flexible. Those are for when you feel ready based on ability to maintain salinity by adding freshwater, and temps consistently.

 

simply stabilize these actions, not super hard, but when you are ready a simply 1x starter coral and light feeding plus water changes is an easy start and would be supported by that rock, i wouldnt add much more until weeks go by to ensure stability. now that anem and fish are taken care of, this is a very typical startup that wont do unpredictable things.

 

by all means, buy some premium live rock that is so purple and living with fanworms and bright purple coralline that almost no gray uncalcified area exists, and add that to the tank as needed.

 

transport it wet home in bags of water to avoid the death cycle.

[brandon429]

this is how to deal with algae in your tank, its coming within a month, the very first green tufts, notice there are none now.

 

When a spot shows the first green whiskers, you make that gone and not any in that area. by simply not doing that, thousands of algae wrecked tanks exist right now and we cant correct them all ongoing forever.

 

Tomorrow someone is going to see a patch of algae, do nothing, start googling, input GFO, start jacking with tank params, or possibly restrict all their feed and stress the corals, or put on an ATS or some kind of filter, and try to ID it in every way, all while the spot simply grows (do any of those things before you get algae, not after, is the key)

 

after you see algae, you make that spot bare of it, try to train on that. The only time you spend searching or ID'ing or reacting is after that spot was made barren by you, and at that exact instant, you have effected permanent control over algae and it can never invade you regardless of your nutrient levels. Keep those in check, and you'll work less to maintain the clean slate.

 

I didnt mention how to remove it, check around. I used to burn mine off with a lighter years ago, whatever makes that spot bare is what works, and some method last longer than others.

 

Just in my opinion, not that your tank wont still be the same good outcome a few weeks after if you chose to, but IMO you do not need to cycle this tank, this is live rock albeit briefly live, not underwater long enough for mass coralline, but months nontheless as there is some and there are some benthics too. you just take things slowly and work up, dont make a new cycle.

[aviator300]

I wish you would post the city and name of the LFS in question. It would be great if we could create a calling, e-mailing and complaining campaign against them.

[Sancho]

I wish you would post the city and name of the LFS in question. It would be great if we could create a calling, e-mailing and complaining campaign against them.

Why? If done right you can have a zero cycle tank set up. Yes the LFS should not have sold the OP the nem or the crappy filter. But if cured established live rock and good live sand was used the OP can and might have a zero to minimal cycle. If the rock was kept wet and the live sand was fresh a cycleless tank is possible. I disagree with a lot of the people stating you cant keep a nem in a 5 gallon tank. I have kept one in my 5 gallon and moved it to my cad 8 which only holds about 5.5 gallons. Its been a couple years the nem is still alive and so is the clownfish. Yeah the nem is going to outgrow the tank and I will move it to a larger tank when that happens. But in my case both the nem and clown were put in the tank day one. Yes I used live rock from my larger tank but what is the difference cured live rock from the LFS should be the same as live rock from another tank.

[stefalopod]

I did nearly the same thing with my first tank, only it was an unidentified anemone, a snowflake eel and a spiny puffer in a 35 gallon tank. My LFS took the eel back, but not before the nem caught and partially digested the puffer on the first night, killing them both.

 

You are way smarter than I was with my first setup. If the SW bug has bitten you, you might look up some other LFSs and do a little tour one day. By going to several (if possible, I had to drive for an hour to get three within my radius) you can get an idea of whether they'll be likely to give you good advice. In my town there's an LFS that will cheerfully sell casual passers-by a shark or some jelly fish. I do not trust their advice.

 

You can avoid making any new purchases by pretending you're visiting the aquarium. You're there to look at biodiversity and learn as much as you can. I used to take a reef keeping book with me, but with smartphones you can look up information about the fish, corals, and inverts you see by googling them. Take notes, and then go home to ask for advice here or make a plan about the livestock you're considering. And don't worry too much about missing out on a particular specimen. Most LFSs can get more stock the same week, if you tell them what you want. And then again, there's always the internet!