Tank Reboot or Get rid of bryopsis?

[MrNanoReef]

So here is the situation, i've been battling bryopsis for nearly two months. I've dipped all my rocks and frags in 50/50 peroxide/tank water at least 3 times. Most of the corals didn't make it especially SPS and a few sensitive LPS. I've also been dosing Tech-M magnesium and keep it about 1500-1600.

 

I've got rid of 99% of them, in fact if I take a full tank shot now it looks perfect, but it is not. Tiny strand of bryopsis keep coming back within the rock porous.

 

So I have two options:

 

1. Restart the tank, salvage as much coral from rocks and QT them.

2. Keep scraping and removing new strand which is very frustrating and time consuming.

 

Is there anyway to get rid of them completely?

 

 

[reefernanoman]

Which tank are we talking about? I didn't have to dip my corals completely into hydrogen peroxide, and just targeted the hydroids carefully with a syringe. I did use 100% peroxide. What I did was to remove each LR one at a time, then attacked this nasty crap. I did have a little die off on the outer edges of my sps, but that was it. It was fairly easy for me because I only have a little bit of LR and frags in my fusion 10G. I had to do this twice BTW. I would say try again.

[Learn It]

How old is the tank?

[MrNanoReef]

Which tank are we talking about? I didn't have to dip my corals completely into hydrogen peroxide, and just targeted the hydroids carefully with a syringe. I did use 100% peroxide. What I did was to remove each LR one at a time, then attacked this nasty crap. I did have a little die off on the outer edges of my sps, but that was it. It was fairly easy for me because I only have a little bit of LR and frags in my fusion 10G. I had to do this twice BTW. I would say try again.

It's my 12g long. I have 3 large LR and some of them are covered with zoas and encrusting monti still alive. I might try targeting again with 100% peroxide this time if I see new strand pop up. Right now it looks 100% clean I can't tell until they grow back. I normally just scrape new strands with a blade but sometime I may have missed a few and they just grew back.

 

what im trying to do is get coraline algea to cover the rock, hopefully bryopsis don't grow on them?

How old is the tank?

about a year and half.

[ndrobey]

Method 1: Put hydrogen peroxide straight from the drug store bottle into a syringe. Shoot the bryopsis strands with the peroxide.

Method 2: Scrape the strands with a razor blade. Then cover the area with super glue to prevent rootlets from growing.

[brandon429]

need full tank shots if poss

[12_egg_Omelette]

Raise the magnesium to 1500 for a couple weeks with Kent Tech M.

[brandon429]

Im reading he was doing that in the first paragraph, agreed its a good measure for most bryopsis

 

we've seen some species of bryopsis persist as these are hardy non nutrient based invaders that pretty much only respond to direct kills.

 

the troubling bryopsis tanks we've had were metrokats because she has delicate diverse macro algae that are limiting to the attack options, a real challenge. but typical tanks that dont have macros, or can be accessed in other ways if they are localized, are not hard to rid of bryopsis

 

its an obligate hitchhiker, so it runs independent of tank nutrients and it isnt generated by dirty or clean tanks, its generated by hitchhiking and best remedied either through lucky grazer combinations, as in the wild, or direct kills.

 

3% peroxide dips isnt advised as the treatment mode, theres another way using strong doses which easily penetrate the holdfast system and kill it after a couple rounds target treatment. the fact most of the tank is controlled helps, we've corrected 95% covered ones.

[jojoe972]

Not sure if we can post links from other sites but I did a search and saw that someone used algaefix for a few months. Not sure if they really had bryopsis since I don't see pix. Also, I thought you needed to bump your mag up to around 1800 to have it start dying off. I have heard the issues from others but have never done this myself.

 

I hope you can get it taken care of and have you done a lights out for 3 days to see if it still grows. Some mistake it for hair algae.

[brandon429]

You can absolutely do that, links to others sites. nr.com is among the top two freest forums on the entire web in terms of operator control. i cant even name another that gives you unlimited full delete options, this place is as free will as it gets and interestingly, they have the least bans of any site even the uptight ones that block you from posting links to 8 places and growing.

 

That algae fix indeed has large threads, it cannot be discounted as an option. nothing with 50+ page threads can be, each one of those options is viable.

[jojoe972]

thanks Brandon!

 

I pm'ed him the link.

[metrokat]

In my experience peroxide does not kill bryopsis, only temporarily shows as if it has. I've dipped frags for the last year, maybe 2 in all combinations of peroxide including straight 3%. It looks like AHA!! I killed it but unfailingly it comes back. Kent tech M has an impurity which kills bryopsis, so raising your magnesium to levels above 1600 -with Kent tech M only - has worked for many. Some urchins, rabbit fish, tangs, sea hares will eat it, but this is more dependent on the individual animal. I wish I could do the Kent treatment but I have large colonies of SPS and I'm not comfortable risking them.

[picoreef78]

It won't go away 100%. H2O2 does kill biopsies to a point. You might have to target on a weekly/2 weeks basis en eventually your tank will have them under control for a while.

 

I sued a spray H2O2 to target small spots at a time.

[MrNanoReef]

thanks guys...im going to try target killing new strand again (which i have already done but still come back). I fear that if I miss a strand or two they will continue to seed new strands coming right back with spores in water column? wouldn't that be the case?

 

I also have algeafix on hand as last option, but I think i will need to get mag back to normal level before going this route as I think it will just stress and possibly killing the rest of the corals which already have been stressed over the last few months.

[brandon429]

3% can never compare to what 15% or 35% does, thats a different hedge in case 3% is too weak for it.

 

w tank pics we can see how to test a certain spot and not do a whole tank commitment. Its important to know 3% is so much of a waste of time for hardy invaders i quit it long ago and went 35%, then i had no invaders, easy formula to consider. The track record we have for bryopsis where we can access the target in air, w the right percentage for the depth of coverage, has a wholly different outcome than the 3% options.

 

Metro how did you ever zap yours, is it under control> those macros would have made even the tech m treatment a pain

 

 

Mr Reefer even tech m as an emersed direct treatment is really powerful. We have done that several times it works too

 

There are prob 10 ways to fight bryopsis in tanks where counter macros aren't an issue, we have a really strong chance here since the whole tank isn't blanketed.

 

i get my 35% from a health food store in town, its among the most dangerous chemicals you can buy off the shelf. Since its avail to 15 yr old kids to buy if they want, I dont mind advising how to use it carefully. I would even advise diluting it down before we start

 

your tank hasnt had ideal 3% applications yet, we can start there for sure after tank pics. Expect any method that leaves holdfasts in place to be an issue, any method that really does kill w make that spot bare until takeover from an untreated spot returns, we got a chance

 

before even going to 35% we can do the spot application of tech m, that works well too before any large tank issues by dosing topwater

 

after we get a true kill on just one single area, thats how we know if whether to proceed further with all the work. true spot treatments are so nice as they aren't a full tank commitment at all.

[MrNanoReef]

Here is the latest FTS and each rock work, I have 3 LR and a small one. Perfect, right? It's been like this for a few weeks so at least it has slowed down growth to the extreme. I wished I had taken a before shot with the bryopsis jungle.

 

Don't mind the bleached and stressed out corals

 

 

 

 

[brandon429]

Wow thats totm nice work really

 

 

I love working on tanks where the before pics don't show an invader that means someone has been busy dealing insults to bad bio masses.

 

Agreed, you should concern about it being located even in trace patches, as they are the origin points for the next takeover and when they are dead, no amount of nutrients or detritus can bring that strain back in. Cyano is one that can always get back in through several channels, but not bryopsis or gelidium or dictyota or dinoflagellates all those are obligate imports (although high nutrients exacerbates)

 

Clearly you don't have a nutrient problem in the tank so its nice we are working independent of detritus, phosphate and nitrate constraints. Impartial kills is the current culprit

 

Most easy test first:

 

Can you find a spot on rocks not next to coral that has some target? If not, begin with your most expendable coral as none of those are particularly sensitive and we are applying creatively to the septal edges of the coral where algae may be, not the coral flesh that has no algae. You can tell from our threads we don't lose corals, we control losses well by these tests first. Keep up your normal biomass work while we find receptivity in comparison here is my opinion

 

Use the q tip idea I pmd, or the little eye dropper target dose, but its in rock that is sitting out in air. Apply. Let si three mins rinse off and put back don't hand remove any, let's watch the kill and sustain.

 

Find two spots as a test though...two different chems tried

 

elbow grease time for kill test. One spot gets 3% from a new, not prev open bottle, so its strongest and not flat, and other spot gets liquid tech m dabbed on it, same exact test. Take pics before and after! This side by side tells us hw your tank would respond before doing all that work

 

We will know about grow back potential at least as an idea. Hit any patches you can easily lift out without major structure work. We only delve that far when sure.

[12_egg_Omelette]

For the price of the Kent product you can't beat it to be honest. If only every solution was that simple. Well it's not a simple solution but it sure beats taking things out scrubbing everything etc.

[MrNanoReef]

For the price of the Kent product you can't beat it to be honest. If only every solution was that simple. Well it's not a simple solution but it sure beats taking things out scrubbing everything etc.

been running tech-M for two months, strands still come back

 

gonna hit it with 100% peroxide injection next time new strands pop out, i've had success with this more than tech-M does and even killed most of red turks besides the bryopsis.

Wow thats totm nice work really

 

 

I love working on tanks where the before pics don't show an invader that means someone has been busy dealing insults to bad bio masses.

 

Agreed, you should concern about it being located even in trace patches, as they are the origin points for the next takeover and when they are dead, no amount of nutrients or detritus can bring that strain back in. Cyano is one that can always get back in through several channels, but not bryopsis or gelidium or dictyota or dinoflagellates all those are obligate imports (although high nutrients exacerbates)

 

Clearly you don't have a nutrient problem in the tank so its nice we are working independent of detritus, phosphate and nitrate constraints. Impartial kills is the current culprit

 

Most easy test first:

 

Can you find a spot on rocks not next to coral that has some target? If not, begin with your most expendable coral as none of those are particularly sensitive and we are applying creatively to the septal edges of the coral where algae may be, not the coral flesh that has no algae. You can tell from our threads we don't lose corals, we control losses well by these tests first. Keep up your normal biomass work while we find receptivity in comparison here is my opinion

 

Use the q tip idea I pmd, or the little eye dropper target dose, but its in rock that is sitting out in air. Apply. Let si three mins rinse off and put back don't hand remove any, let's watch the kill and sustain.

 

Find two spots as a test though...two different chems tried

 

elbow grease time for kill test. One spot gets 3% from a new, not prev open bottle, so its strongest and not flat, and other spot gets liquid tech m dabbed on it, same exact test. Take pics before and after! This side by side tells us hw your tank would respond before doing all that work

 

We will know about grow back potential at least as an idea. Hit any patches you can easily lift out without major structure work. We only delve that far when sure.

thanks but it's hardly totm man...at least not at the condition its in right now

 

You're right...i've been busy killing every strand I see but not with a 100% direct kill yet, i'll keep an eye out and give it try

 

Although i still have problem that it grows on the LPS skeleton and between zoas polyps, i can't get to those without touching the flesh

[brandon429]

the zoas are nearly bulletproof so thats a lucky place. The only time ive heard of any application method killing any zo, was when they were already receded up to individual strands and were tall/lanky stressed type. the short, fat, coenenchyme-connected colonial anems (zos) are the single most tolerant coral i could name for peroxide resistance. so tolerant mine are literally immune to 35% direct contact, 10 mins, in the air.

 

2 seconds of 35% would burn formica counters into little bubbles like battery acid

 

regarding the lps, thats the septal only application Id mentioned and we too have near total success w lps

 

I know there are statements online of losing this or that, im just going off the variables we control very well in the big thread.

 

Mr Reefer Ill also add this

 

in the last 30 pages of the peroxide thread i can now call two examples of people who were already controlling their outbreak before presenting with a repeat removal problem.

 

The problem you and porkchop express with the bad dinos had was that you were working so hard to beat the invader the tank itself was not fun compared to hands off easy street (what we can get after a bryopsis beat down)

 

Both yours and his tank pics looked bare clean, but we knew there was a problem. How do 99.99% of algae invaded tanks look pre treatment? forest

 

im only pointing that out to show the final proton donor in all algae wrecked tanks is what you purposely leave in there, it is NOT nutrient causes, its left in the tank because it takes too much work caused.

 

The old way leaves an invader in place and only attacks the water never the target, and that works sometimes. The new way is disallowing bad growth and seeking the final preventative imo.

 

 

wrecked tanks are option truly, we just take action on spot one not spot nineteen.

 

 

 

If your actual treatment spots grow back dead center, its because the chem isnt strong enough for total kill.

 

if its in others areas but not the spot, we're on to something, and only a test run can show. best before the big jump

 

 

the number one thing I'd have done differently for kats challenge bryopsis/planted macro tank a year or two ago vs updated tactics of today would be to not let the decorative and delicate macro plants be present and limiting for our target treatment

 

these opposing items could have been shortly separated, id always seen tanks as a whole where the non targets set the max safe peroxide one could use, and macros allow no leeway for sure. We should have started back over as a typical tank where spot treatments up to 20% w kill bry for sure and then add the macros much later after eradication. They sit in quarantine as we fix that main tank priority no 1

 

I've changed in 2015 to see the practice of not ever quarantining our substrate additions as the real cause of 99% of tank invaders since 99% of them are required hitchhikers.