HarryPotter Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I am looking to buy a pair of ORA™ Hatchery Certified Mated Pair of clownfish.Has anyone bought a certified pair before? I know its pricy, but these will be the show critter of my new 45 gallon SPS/LPS reef.I will have multiple possible locations for the clowns to host, including a torch coral and large BTA. I am currently considering a mated pair of ORA Black Ice Ocellaris Clownfish, ORA Premium Black Snowflake Clownfish, or another from http://www.saltwaterfish.com/category-saltwater-fish_clownfish. What do you think? I know they are pricy, but these will be the main/only fish that will be going in the tank. I like clownfish because they are beautiful, hosting, funny (IMO) and hardy. Link to comment
1.0reef Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 How much is the pair? The website has some listed as a "group of 2 or more" but that doesn't mean they're a spawning/mating pair. Buying true mated pairs of designer clowns has a lot of downsides as well, first off, they may not spawn for you if they're being moved. They'll cost WAY more than buying juvies and growing them out, and they're probably being used to pampered if they're a true spawning pair. Buying a bonded pair will be cheaper, plus there's a larger chance of them spawning in your system. One recommendation I'd give you is to look into ordering Bali AquaRich clowns, IMO they have less deformities than ORA or SA fish. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 How much is the pair? The website has some listed as a "group of 2 or more" but that doesn't mean they're a spawning/mating pair. Buying true mated pairs of designer clowns has a lot of downsides as well, first off, they may not spawn for you if they're being moved. They'll cost WAY more than buying juvies and growing them out, and they're probably being used to pampered if they're a true spawning pair. Buying a bonded pair will be cheaper, plus there's a larger chance of them spawning in your system. One recommendation I'd give you is to look into ordering Bali AquaRich clowns, IMO they have less deformities than ORA or SA fish. Yeah after reading about them, I came up with some pretty bad reviews. They send tiny babies, which don't look ANYTHING like the photo in terms of coloration and the such. I asked my LFS about designer clowns, and it turns out they are ordering a bunch this week. Black Ice, Darwin, the works. Im hoping to spend less than $50 each, but I know that that is most likely insufficient. Link to comment
MikeTR Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I have a pair of bonded bali clowns and I'm on the fence whether or not to keep them. They are HIGH dollar fish. Link to comment
kmaintl Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I would stay away from ORA clowns, way too much inbreeding for too many years now. People use to ask for ORA by name and proud to own a pair of their clowns as they were the best. Nowadays, anyone who really knows clowns won't suggest them to anyone. Lots of defects. Same goes for a couple of other hatcheries. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 I would stay away from ORA clowns, way too much inbreeding for too many years now. People use to ask for ORA by name and proud to own a pair of their clowns as they were the best. Nowadays, anyone who really knows clowns won't suggest them to anyone. Lots of defects. Same goes for a couple of other hatcheries. Interesting, inbreeding within ORA. I am leaning towards buying them from liveaquaria- one black and white Ocellaris and one Black ice. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Interesting, inbreeding within ORA. That's how they keep making these 'crazy' clownfish patterns. Breed, then inbreed, then inbreed again, etc etc, until the final product is weak and 'brittle' compared to wild clownfish or clowns bred with a wild clown to make the first generation. Lots of deformities, poor color, high mortality rate abound in these clowns. ORA even sells some of the deformities as 'stubby' clowns. It's also gotten to the point where ORA is only breeding specific 'designer' clownfish, and all the 'normal' or different patterns are just culls but sold as though they were not. Link to comment
kmaintl Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 That's how they keep making these 'crazy' clownfish patterns. Breed, then inbreed, then inbreed again, etc etc, until the final product is weak and 'brittle' compared to wild clownfish or clowns bred with a wild clown to make the first generation. Lots of deformities, poor color, high mortality rate abound in these clowns. ORA even sells some of the deformities as 'stubby' clowns. It's also gotten to the point where ORA is only breeding specific 'designer' clownfish, and all the 'normal' or different patterns are just culls but sold as though they were not. +1 I have bought a lot of clownfishes over the last decade and I hate paying for culls. LoL Lots of breeders also breeding for money, or they think there's money in breeding clownfishes. Some of their best designer clownfishes bred are jacked up. Too much focus on patterns and color than on structure and conformation. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 But if I went with 1x LiveAquaria Black and White (occ.) and 1x Black Ice, I would avoid inbreeding? +1 I have bought a lot of clownfishes over the last decade and I hate paying for culls. LoL Lots of breeders also breeding for money, or they think there's money in breeding clownfishes. Some of their best designer clownfishes bred are jacked up. Too much focus on patterns and color than on structure and conformation. That's how they keep making these 'crazy' clownfish patterns. Breed, then inbreed, then inbreed again, etc etc, until the final product is weak and 'brittle' compared to wild clownfish or clowns bred with a wild clown to make the first generation. Lots of deformities, poor color, high mortality rate abound in these clowns. ORA even sells some of the deformities as 'stubby' clowns. It's also gotten to the point where ORA is only breeding specific 'designer' clownfish, and all the 'normal' or different patterns are just culls but sold as though they were not. Link to comment
kmaintl Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 But if I went with 1x LiveAquaria Black and White (occ.) and 1x Black Ice, I would avoid inbreeding? If you plan on breeding, you yourself will not be inbreeding with this pair. But one has no idea how many generation each fish has already been inbred by the breeder or hatchery. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 If you plan on breeding, you yourself will not be inbreeding with this pair. But one has no idea how many generation each fish has already been inbred by the breeder or hatchery. No breeding, just the show fish of my JBJ RL-45. May also get a dwarf angel. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 +1 I have bought a lot of clownfishes over the last decade and I hate paying for culls. LoL Lots of breeders also breeding for money, or they think there's money in breeding clownfishes. Some of their best designer clownfishes bred are jacked up. Too much focus on patterns and color than on structure and conformation. I've not bought nearly as many as you lol, but in the four years I've been in the hobby I've bought around a dozen clownfish, all aquacultured except for this last one, which is a wild clownfish. Every aquacultured one has not been nearly 'bulletproof' hardiness like is always touted about clownfish. They all died within a few hours or sometimes a couple of weeks. The wild black clown that I've had for just over a year now has been definitively bulletproof. And the nicest looking, too. Link to comment
phillyclownfish Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I am working on getting my pair to start spawning. I have been just feeding them a lot recently. Haven't taken any steps to start the process other then that. Example of my pair. http://reefbuilders.com/files/2013/08/sa-frostbite-clownfish1.jpg Link to comment
hey Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Most breeders will not sell a true mated pair until its coming to the end of the road for its career or the focus of a line breeding project goes on to its next phase. I would be leery of paying what is commanded of a true breeding pair unless I knew the seller and the histories of the fish. It's pretty easy to get clownfish to pair up, not so easy to get the conditions just right to get them to actually breed successfully. As for line breeding, it would take quite a few generations before you end up with a useless pair that you would have zero interest in breeding (usually them being sterile) clowns aren't quite to the point say crystal red shrimp in freshwater are right now, but they haven't been in the designer fad that long, and I hope saltwater never becomes that. Link to comment
MikeTR Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I bought these cuz they were perty... Better shot of the female.. they don't hold still Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 I bought these cuz they were perty... [Pictures] Better shot of the female.. they don't hold still Pretty! Nice- Im thinking of getting LFS ones as well. Link to comment
CJJon Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hmm, it's been a while since I have kept a clown (before all the tony designer clowns they have now) and thought ORA was the way to go. It makes sense now because I had been seeing a ton of specimens with over and under bites, stubby tails, etc. from them. Back in the day we would have culled all of those! I think I am going to get a pair of true percs and breed them. I like me a perfect example of a regular, normal Amphiprion percula, orange eyes and all. I have an awesome fish room that would be perfect. Does anyone have a recommendation of a good place to source a juvenile pair? I actually took a course in clown fish husbandry on Compuserve back in the days before the internet. I actually have the certificate someplace. Anyone remember the Compuserve forums? I was actualy a sysop there on some saltwater forum. I hardly remember it! Now I have the sound of a 2400 baud modem ringing in my head. Link to comment
1.0reef Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Hmm, it's been a while since I have kept a clown (before all the tony designer clowns they have now) and thought ORA was the way to go. It makes sense now because I had been seeing a ton of specimens with over and under bites, stubby tails, etc. from them. Back in the day we would have culled all of those! I think I am going to get a pair of true percs and breed them. I like me a perfect example of a regular, normal Amphiprion percula, orange eyes and all. I have an awesome fish room that would be perfect. Does anyone have a recommendation of a good place to source a juvenile pair? I actually took a course in clown fish husbandry on Compuserve back in the days before the internet. I actually have the certificate someplace. Anyone remember the Compuserve forums? I was actualy a sysop there on some saltwater forum. I hardly remember it! Now I have the sound of a 2400 baud modem ringing in my head. The best regular Percula would be wild ones, but they are more uncommon and usually die from infections, etc. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 The best regular Percula would be wild ones, but they are more uncommon and usually die from infections, etc. I will probably compromise with two from the LFS. Ill be careful upon selection Link to comment
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