Ich already!

[CJJon]

True, I have however heard of a reef safe medicine that has worked but it costs like 50 bucks or something like that

 

If I remember correctly, there is a thread here about someone who had claimed success with a reef safe ich med, but later lost fish due to ich. The ich cycle is variable and indeed, some fish can live with active ich, so that skews results. Was it the new medicated food or is it just a normal lul in the cycle of ich reproduction? Put simply, doing nothing could have reached the same result and the reef safe treatment did nothing.

[Cencalfishguy56]

 

If I remember correctly, there is a thread here about someone who had claimed success with a reef safe ich med, but later lost fish due to ich. The ich cycle is variable and indeed, some fish can live with active ich, so that skews results. Was it the new medicated food or is it just a normal lul in the cycle of ich reproduction? Put simply, doing nothing could have reached the same result and the reef safe treatment did nothing.

I don't remember but yes that's the tough part, we will never fully know what exactly worked the medicine or the immune system, I believe some medicines work to an extent, if you get the protozoan in the right cycle of its life you can eradicate it but that's why some people have an ongoing battle for a long ass time

[CJJon]

Here is what does work: Copper, hyposalinity, TTM.

 

There are no proven reef-safe treatments for marine ich.

[Cencalfishguy56]

Here is what does work: Copper, hyposalinity, TTM.

 

There are no proven reef-safe treatments for marine ich.

You're right lol there aren't proven ones, but a lot of us just do it any ways to get a sense of stability I guess you could say, I personally stopped using medication a while ago for that reason, idk if it's what truly works but you're right

[johnmaloney]

Case of the Ich already!!!

 

So my two clowns have Ich i don't have a hospital tank what can I do in the short term before I get one setup?

 

I'm so frusrtrated I have this so early in the hobby. Tank has been up a few months and had no major issues till now.

 

PH 8.2. Ammonia 0-.25. Nitrites 0. Nitrates 5ppm

 

I'll post photos of the clowns tonight. Everyone else looks ok so far but I know it's coming. I have fresh water tank I'm going to breakdown and turn into a hospital tank but won't have time till the weekend.

It usually happens in young tanks, water quality stress is the cause of it. The fish can usually fight it off otherwise, Changing the water out and adding bacterial filtration and prime will help them beat it themselves.

[HarryPotter]

 

Garlic has never been shown to cure or even help with Cryptocaryon irritans.

 

"Don't know what all the fuss is about, Rest assured they will survive"? Uh, huh.

 

Really? Thats new information to me!

 

Whenever one of my fish is looking mediocre or somewhat pale (Ex. 8" tall Sailfin tan) I feed algae sheets soaked in concentrated garlic and it works GREAT!

 

The tangs love it- tear at it like theres no tomorrow and always look beautiful for weeks afterward. Maybe thats just placebo on my part, but I am pretty sure that garlic boosts the immune system of marine fish.

 

I just read this, http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/which supports your feelings to Garlic, but I am almost certain that there is a benefit.

[CJJon]

From that site:

 

To properly discuss the use of garlic, we really need to go back to the origins of garlic's use for ornamental marines and revisit the presentation Kelly Jedlicki gave at the 1998 Midwest Marine Aquarium Conference in Michigan. It was there that the idea of feeding our fish garlic was first introduced to the saltwater hobby. Now, I must admit, I was not lucky enough to attend this conference firsthand. But, I know Kelly rather well now, and we have discussed this topic on numerous occasions.

Kelly was giving a presentation on general pufferfish care. Part of her discussion centered on the number of fish that she had received that were parasitized with internal worms. In looking for a treatment that was safe and effective, she stumbled across garlic. At this conference, she shared her anecdotal experience of garlic being an effective dewormer. She also happened to mention in passing that she noticed a general decrease in occurrences of Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans when using this garlic treatment. That's it. This does not sound like a ringing endorsement to me. Nor was this a controlled study demonstrating that garlic had an effect on Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans. But none of that seems to matter because from there the legend of garlic spread far and wide. Why are so many people willing to go with this "treatment" based solely upon this one innocuous, anecdotal report? I hate to say it, but I believe laziness had to play at least part of a role. Consider the alternative, proven treatments for an infected tank. In the lack of an easily available magic bullet, the hobbyist has to tear apart the entire aquarium, remove all the fish to a second quarantine system and treat them with hyposalinity or copper while leaving the display empty of fish for a month or two. Or, the aquarist can simply leave the fish in the display and add a couple of drops of this garlic extract to their food and they should heal on their own. When put in those terms, who wouldn't pick the garlic alterative?

[HarryPotter]

From that site:

 

To properly discuss the use of garlic......

 

I really don't get that article; the structure/language is a bit too complex for me. Im pretty sure that they are concluding that Garlic is useful, but in the introduction they seem to be contradicting its use in the marine ecosystem.

 

Either way, from personal experience I am sure that the Garlic is doing something positive for me. Im telling you- whenever my tangs aren't looking great, a few days of garlic soaked sheets leaves them looking exquisite; colors dark, stomachs more filled out, etc.

[CJJon]

 

I really don't get that article; the structure/language is a bit too complex for me. Im pretty sure that they are concluding that Garlic is useful, but in the introduction they seem to be contradicting its use in the marine ecosystem.

 

Either way, from personal experience I am sure that the Garlic is doing something positive for me. Im telling you- whenever my tangs aren't looking great, a few days of garlic soaked sheets leaves them looking exquisite; colors dark, stomachs more filled out, etc.

 

Well no, the author does not conclude that garlic is useful in marine aquaria.

 

"To recap, garlic's use as an appetite stimulant is questionable at best. It seemed to have a positive effect when injected into fish that were infected with a bacterium. It can kill the freshwater Ich parasite Ichthyophthirius multifiliis when dosed in rather high concentrations in the water. And, it might be an effective dewormer in freshwater fish. But, none of that means it will do anything against Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans when added to the food of infected fish."

 

..."while many hobbyists report using garlic and then noticing an increase in feeding activity, there is no conclusive proof to this claim, either. It could be that the pungent and/or unrecognized/unnatural smell of the garlic brought the fish over to investigate the food, but there is no way of knowing whether or not they would have eaten food not treated with garlic, or whether or not any strong-smelling food additive would have done the same thing. It could also simply be that enough time had elapsed that the fish was finally prepared to eat and adding garlic was just a coincidence. Frankly, there are far too many variables to conclusively evaluate these claims."

 

Emphasis all mine.

[HarryPotter]

 

Well no, the author does not conclude that garlic is useful in marine aquaria.

 

"To recap, garlic's use as an appetite stimulant is questionable at best. It seemed to have a positive effect when injected into fish that were infected with a bacterium. It can kill the freshwater Ich parasite Ichthyophthirius multifiliis when dosed in rather high concentrations in the water. And, it might be an effective dewormer in freshwater fish. But, none of that means it will do anything against Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans when added to the food of infected fish."

 

..."while many hobbyists report using garlic and then noticing an increase in feeding activity, there is no conclusive proof to this claim, either. It could be that the pungent and/or unrecognized/unnatural smell of the garlic brought the fish over to investigate the food, but there is no way of knowing whether or not they would have eaten food not treated with garlic, or whether or not any strong-smelling food additive would have done the same thing. It could also simply be that enough time had elapsed that the fish was finally prepared to eat and adding garlic was just a coincidence. Frankly, there are far too many variables to conclusively evaluate these claims."

 

Emphasis all mine.

 

Thanks CJJon, that cleared it up a lot.

 

I am not going to stop the garlic soaked feeding, as I have 4 large tangs (Sailfin, Yellow, Blue, and odd purple/yellow tang) that clearly benefit in both health and coloration after it.

 

Edit: It is three large tangs, a Sailfin tang, blue tang, and yellow tang. The fourth fish I was referring to is a Bicolor Angel, which also eats the algae sheets. It has been nipping on the Zoas though, but is uncatchable.

 

However, this does bring up a lot of questions regarding why I am seeing a clearly observable benefit of using it. Im positive I am not simply having a self imposed Placebo effect after feeding Garlic; I will take pictures next time a few days before and a few days after.

[metrokat]

 

Hmm, I'm not sure of the efficacy of these types of food. Looks to be some sort of chloroquin compound. Not sure the fish could ingest enough, long enough for it to be effective.

 

Any data Kat?

 

Any of the pellets hit your corals and they are dead ducks.

I don't have data except my observation that the pellets stink. My fish readily eat them and you're right about corals dying if they get a pellet - happened to my blasto.

 

Yea I read about those pellets I have yet to hear of one fish who readily eats them lol from all the reviews I have read at least

All my fish eat them.

 

Also - I've never had a QT for my fish but I use safety stop bath when adding new fish. This is not a substitute for a QT though.

[Visualscapes]

A QT tank doesn't have to be elaborate. A simple 10 or 20 (even better) gallon tank with a lid, a heater, biological filter ( I use an aquaclear with sponges only) and a basic light (so you can observe the fish). A few pieces of PVC pipe fittings for them to hide in and you are set.

 

Bought my 20 long QT at petco for 20 bucks during there $1 gallon sale. All told, I'm into the tank for around a hundred bucks or less. Pretty cheap insurance considering how expensive this hobby is.

 

I never used to use them, but with my anthias trio one of them got ich while in QT. So I used cupramine and cured it. Shortly after that another one got pop eye, and I used Maracyn 2 to cure it. Darn fish were in Quarantine for like 2 months! Now they're in my tank and super healthy.

 

So glad I set up that QT!

[cromag27]

Unfortunately there is no fda-type of organization that police's reef products. that's why manufacturers can get away with lying in their marketing. it's also an unfortunate fact that most people like to take the path of least resistance (lazy) and they want to believe in snake oil treatments. I believe in science. science says there are 3 ways to treat crypto, as previously mentioned.