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Upgrading tanks due to too much coral, how to do it safely!?!


HarryPotter

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HarryPotter

Hi everyone! Im upgrading from a NanoCube 28 to a JBJ RL-45

 

Im doing this because my corals are practically growing out of my tank, and beginning to touch eachpther despite constant fragging! Duncan, Montipora, Torch Corals, etc are practically weeds :lol:

 

I was looking for some advice on how to do this transfer with the least shock to the inhabitants. I want to start with dry, ReefCleaners rock and make a more professional looking aquascape this time, but am concerned with a secondary cycle or other upgrading aspects.

 

Attached is a picture of my Heavily fragged NanoCube (Hence tiny Montipora and Duncan, I sold 14 heads of the Duncan to the LFS :)and my design for the RL-45

 

IMG_0420_zpsqrtlejrq.jpg

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I moved all the rocks, used new sand but seeded it with 4 or 5 full cups of worm loaded, detritus loaded old sand. I did not lose any corals during the switch but I lost one fish.

 

Get the new tank full of water, same salinity, same KH, same temperature. Go low on the water level since you'll be adding more rock. Carefully and quickly move rocks from the old tank to the new tank. Also move any filter media or anything else bacteria might have set up on into the new sump and leave it there for a month. Old bags of carbon, media baskets, anything that will fit.

 

Gunk is your friend here, bacteria film, etc.

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HarryPotter

 

Get the new tank full of water, same salinity, same KH, same temperature. Go low on the water level since you'll be adding more rock. Carefully and quickly move rocks from the old tank to the new tank. Also move any filter media or anything else bacteria might have set up on into the new sump and leave it there for a month. Old bags of carbon, media baskets, anything that will fit.

 

So in a nutshell "Make them as similar as possible"?

 

I have the ability to have both tanks running simultaneously, so do not have to rush it. I am thinking of using new sand, ReefCleaners (Pre-Cured) rock, and some of my existing media (Sponge, etc) to kick it off. I will get through the cycle as fast as I can, and then slowly make the transfer.

My only issue is that I only have one Radion XR30w Pro, so can only have coral in one tank at a time. I do have a AI Nano though, which can temporarily support some corals during the switch...

 

Another Idea:

 

In addition to the Media Transfer to the new tank, I am also thinking of adding 5g a week of NanoCube Water to the RL-45 to balance and speed up everything. The NanoCube will benefit from the new water, and the RL-45 will become more and more biologically similar to the NanoCube.

 

What do you think? Like my design proposal for the RL-45?

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HarryPotter

 

 

http://www.nano-reef...p-to-20l/page-3

I just did this page 3. No casualties. Proper planning is key. Think about the steps needed. Write them down. Do this a couple times at different times. And just make sure you aren't missing a step.

Thanks! Thats great @righttirefire!

 

Do hashtags work here? haha

 

I will print that out as a checklist, but my switch will be much more gradual. Luckily the new tank is in another room, so there is no urgency in the transfer. I will have all the time in the world to get everything slowly switched over :)

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There's nothing of importance in the water, or at least not in quantities that will do much good. All the good stuff in on the rocks, in the rocks, on and in the sand, on the tank walls, pumps, media. Remember the bacteria is the key. If you are "cycling" the new tank with no or very little bioload and then move the fish over you will have an ammonia spike because you won't have enough bacteria to handle the load.

 

Good luck. :)

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Adding water from one tank to the other won't do much. The water column is not where the nitrifying bacteria live. They live on and in things like live rock, sand, sponges, tank walls, etc. Won't hurt necessarily, but not really helpful in reality. If it would be a chore, I would skip it.

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HarryPotter

 

Adding water from one tank to the other won't do much. The water column is not where the nitrifying bacteria live. They live on and in things like live rock, sand, sponges, tank walls, etc. Won't hurt necessarily, but not really helpful in reality. If it would be a chore, I would skip it.

Hmm that is a good point about the bacteria. However the water transfer is not JUST for that purpose, but also to balance parameters such as to get to my preferred 480 Calcium, salinity, PH, etc. I will see what I can do to transfer more nitrifying bacteria, I may just move the LR to the new tank to get it immediately cycled. The Corals will be fine on the sand bed for a week at least, no?

 

Here is some more details on me and my reef, if anyone is interested

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/361080-my-mixed-reef-jbj-nanocube-loaded-to-the-brim/#entry5024894

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Hmm that is a good point about the bacteria. However the water transfer is not JUST for that purpose, but also to balance parameters such as to get to my preferred 480 Calcium, salinity, PH, etc. I will see what I can do to transfer more nitrifying bacteria, I may just move the LR to the new tank to get it immediately cycled. The Corals will be fine on the sand bed for a week at least, no?

 

Here is some more details on me and my reef, if anyone is interested

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/361080-my-mixed-reef-jbj-nanocube-loaded-to-the-brim/#entry5024894

 

One more thing,

 

Calcium levels are fairly meaningless. :) I know, this was a bit of a shocker to me too, but corals do fine in calcium anywhere from 400 to 500 and it can swing around without much effect. KH is the key. A rapid large change can seriously harm corals. I do agree water transfer will help bring the tanks into balance, so that's a good idea, but for KH. :D

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HarryPotter

 

Calcium levels are fairly meaningless. :) I know, this was a bit of a shocker to me too, but corals do fine in calcium anywhere from 400 to 500 and it can swing around without much effect. KH is the key. A rapid large change can seriously harm corals. I do agree water transfer will help bring the tanks into balance, so that's a good idea, but for KH. :D

 

KH? That is Alkalinity, right? I have a fancy test kit for that from Red Sea but never got around to using it. I am a lazy reefer :(

 

All I know is that Kent B brings up alkalinity, and that alkalinity has something to do with preventing swings in PH. Am I on the right track?

 

Ill break out the test kit to see where I'm at :lol: and try to match that

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KH? That is Alkalinity, right? I have a fancy test kit for that from Red Sea but never got around to using it. I am a lazy reefer :(

 

All I know is that Kent B brings up alkalinity, and that alkalinity has something to do with preventing swings in PH. Am I on the right track?

 

Ill break out the test kit to see where I'm at :lol: and try to match that

 

Kind of. Don't worry about PH, just KH (Alkalinity). LPS and soft corals don't care too much, though zoas might melt if it swings too much. SPS want it rock solid stable and if it's not they might just not color up, stay brown, or worse die. If you avoid most SPS you probably don't have to worry that much, but since Alk and Calcium are tied if you dose Alk and it gets to high your calcium will crash which will lead to all kinds of other issues.

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KH = Alkalinity. Kent B will raise KH. Are you dosing Kent B? Probably should be testing before dosing.

 

pH is something that you really don't need to worry about and you will drive yourself crazy trying to hit some magic pH number. Keep your check on your salinity, KH, Calcium, magnesium, phosphate, and nitrate. Have test kits for them all and use them. The phosphate and nitrate you can skip if your tank is healthy. I use them to check if things look like they are changing in the tank. The big three are KH, Ca, Mg. I would match those as close as I can. I would use fresh mixed water because mine mixes up perfect every time and I can easily match my tank's parameters. New mixed is better IMO (in my mind I think the buffering ability of new water is better, but I have no idea).

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KH? That is Alkalinity, right? I have a fancy test kit for that from Red Sea but never got around to using it. I am a lazy reefer :(

 

All I know is that Kent B brings up alkalinity, and that alkalinity has something to do with preventing swings in PH. Am I on the right track?

 

Ill break out the test kit to see where I'm at :lol: and try to match that

If your growing LPS like weeds I wouldn't change a thing. Clearly your doing something right.

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If your growing LPS like weeds I wouldn't change a thing. Clearly your doing something right.

 

This is more about setting up a new tank to match current tank parameters not necessarily changing what the OP is doing (although there is a bit about testing to see what is actually happening in the successful tank). Knowledge is power. LOL!

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HarryPotter

KH = Alkalinity. Kent B will raise KH. Are you dosing Kent B? Probably should be testing before dosing.

 

I am doing equal parts kent A & Kent B, as they recommend. I only test for Calcium since Lucinda (My clam) is such a pig, and salinity occasionally to compensate for salt creep and skimming.

 

Tank is pretty stable, hence no testing for Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, Phosphate, etc.

 

I CANT FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE MY OWN WATER

LOL I've tried so many times. 5g bucket with RO, using Instand Ocean Salt, a heater, and a powerhead. Every single time the water turns out WHITE! So weird- no? Its a PITA, so I've resolved to just not do water changes recently- don't hate!

 

If your growing LPS like weeds I wouldn't change a thing. Clearly your doing something right.

 

Thanks Iboud, I appreciate it. Many people (Not here) have really bashed me for not doing weekly water changes or fragging up my huge duncan with a dremel. 19/20 frags did great, I sold 18 and have one left to grow out.

 

I actually got banned from ReefCentral after I posted (In response to a "Expert" moderator repeatedly demanding me to start water changes or my tank would collapse) "Im not encouraging anyone to not do water changes, but please be constructive because I am not planning on starting now and my reef is thriving". Bummer- they deleted my build thread and everything.

 

 

This is more about setting up a new tank to match current tank parameters not necessarily changing what the OP is doing (although there is a bit about testing to see what is actually happening in the successful tank). Knowledge is power. LOL!

 

I am always looking to improve my method and continue stability. All opinions and recommendations are welcome! I agree that testing is neccesary- I do Salinity and Calcium and am planning on adding more to that as I set up a doser.

 

I love all advice, comments, and recommendations. If someone suggested I start adding grapes to my tank, I would research and decide on whether I want to try it, but I would never be offended or aggressive towards advice.

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Water in bucket first. Mix water with stick (I use PVC) until tornado forms. Pour salt mix in slowly into the outer part of tornado--dribble it in slow. Keep tornado going until dissolved. I usually just use my water at room temp. I do small 1 gallon water changes and don't heat the water.

 

Sure, the world is full of people keeping reef tanks--there are bound to be one or two that luck into a successful tank despite themselves. It's just odds...

 

I won't hate though! However, you do have to realize that your approach is way outside the curve (and I think you do) and that the vast majority of reef keepers would fail if they attempted to emulate your system and husbandry.

 

I am curious what your Ca level is and how much and how often you dose. Oh, and do you use tap water for top off?

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HarryPotter

Water in bucket first. Mix water with stick (I use PVC) until tornado forms. Pour salt mix in slowly into the outer part of tornado--dribble it in slow. Keep tornado going until dissolved. I usually just use my water at room temp. I do small 1 gallon water changes and don't heat the water.

 

Sure, the world is full of people keeping reef tanks--there are bound to be one or two that luck into a successful tank despite themselves. It's just odds...

 

I won't hate though! However, you do have to realize that your approach is way outside the curve (and I think you do) and that the vast majority of reef keepers would fail if they attempted to emulate your system and husbandry.

 

I am curious what your Ca level is and how much and how often you dose. Oh, and do you use tap water for top off?

 

 

Thanks for the advice on mixing salt- I will attempt it later. I think my salt is really old at this point though, around two years :lol:

 

I partially agree and partially disagree with the "Luck... odds" of it. When I first started, I was constantly doing water changes but noticed that just fueled algae growth and made my tank unstable. When I stopped, growth exploded and the tank became unbelievably nutrient hungry and stable. However I do not think it was just "Luck" that enables this- I think it is my careful husbandry and knowledge gained from the DSR method.

 

Ca level as of yesterday was 410, so I put in a TON of Kent A to bring it back up. Typically I will just do "a squirt" of Kent A & B every two to three days, and when I do my monthly cleaning (W. blasting rocks with powerhead, brushing off any algae, stirring sand, etc) I will measure Ca to make sure I am on target.

 

Interesting question regarding the Top Off water, and upon consideration, may be very relevant. My house, built in the 1970s, is not supplied by city water- it has a well. I use the filtered well water for Top Offs, but do NOT put it through RO/DI.

 

Do you think this contributes to my experience? I will test the levels in my well later today- this may be VERY interesting!

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