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Chaeto, LED, 6500k vs Red & Blue?


Alexraptor

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Alexraptor

Looking to replace my Par38 6500k CFL refugium lamp, and I can no longer get hold of those where I live.

So now I'm looking at led bulbs and would like to know which is ther better option.

 

A 6500k white led lamp? Or a hydroponic red & blue 660/460nm lamp?

This is of course for efficiently growing Chaetomorpha.

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jedimasterben

'6500k' doesn't really mean anything as our eyes can be tricked into thinking a light looks different than what it 'should be'. Spectrally, cool white LEDs contain very little of anything other than royal blue. You want 660nm and either 450nm or 420nm in a roughly 4-6:1 ratio for optimal growth of macroalgae. The difference in growth between the two is large.

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jedimasterben

I saw one of these a few days back being used over a slightly larger than basketball size of chaeto. For 66 bucks hard to beat.

http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-FLORALUX-150w-HPS-Mini-Grow-Light#

Actually, it is not hard to beat that at all. HpS are really inefficient with macroalgae and a cheap eBay LED unit for about the same price will use much less power, send less heat into your tank, and on top of that grow chaeto much better.
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Hi,

 

I use the below setup. I put a baseball size of Chaeto into my Fuge about 40 days ago and doubled within a day. Now the Fuge is totally full. I use the red led - grows like freaking crazy. My pH is very well balance now as well (no skimmer).

 

http://www.amazon.com/Wholesalers-Power-PAR38-Dimmable-x1325RB/dp/B00M2FCMSY

http://www.hardwares...der-646710.aspx

I also have one of the below, but have not used it since I really like the dimming function (found this one first).

http://www.amazon.co...025NC6SJ7DAJNNV

image3.jpg

image2.jpg

image.jpg

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jedimasterben

Not to mention it would be completely overkill for a Refugium for a Nano!

Actually, not really, depending on the size of the refugium. Most people REALLY undersize their refugium lighting (along with undersizing the refugium itself) and they receive very little growth (with macro such as chaeto, though, it appears to be growing exceedingly well but the fact is that it is actually just crawling along in comparison to what it should do if it were well-lit). I aim for around 300 PAR at the top of where the macroalgae start.

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I grow my chaeto in second chamber in Proflex model 1 sump with 12x1w 4500K neutral white with 60 degree optics. I started a week ago from a baseball size and it's now twice in size. Light is about 6 inch above water, 11inch from chaeto when I started. Chaeto use up NO3 so quickly that I have to dose KNO3 everyday to maintain above 0 reading.

I do have a red/blue par38 coming but I don't think I will be using it.

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blasterman

I'm frankly skeptical of cheato or any macro algae caring about red -vs- blue, but to each their own. As long as we don't have T5 owners spouting dumb crap about how their tubes are emitting wavelengths that LED's can't I can deal with it.

 

Get one of these, take the top frame off and simply pull the lenses. Choose any color balance between Red and Blue you want. I've done the same, but for ambient lighting.

 

http://www.amazon.com/wonderful-Effect-DMX512-Lighting-essential/dp/B00EADCPDS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431483023&sr=8-1&keywords=led+par

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blasterman

I get what you''re saying Jedi, and in vitro you are correct. Same chemistry applies to terrestrial plants.

 

The issue is it doesn't matter. The difference between 660 and 630nm with chlorophyll is negligible enough that the higher efficiency of 630nm sources pretty much make up the difference.

 

Ideally you'd need less PPFD of 660nm to produce the same energy level in the plant, and in that respect you are correct, but it kind of doesn't matter. We're already blasting the plant with may more energy than it needs by several orders of magnitude. HPS at 580-590nm seems stupid, but it's the same solution. The gains from using 660nm (or 700nm) just aren't worth the effort when you can produce insane amounts of 580-590nm light at 150lpw at 400-1000watts in a $10 bulb {shrug}.

 

You could in theory grow the same plant under green light, but you'd need FAR more energy. Even the green photons bang around and get coverted to something useful. Kind of like playing pool when you're drunk.

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jedimasterben

If that's the case cheato wouldn't grow for shi_t under FL's and Halides since neither have any far red. :P

It's not that it doesn't grow, it just doesn't grow nearly as well :)

 

You could in theory grow the same plant under green light, but you'd need FAR more energy. Even the green photons bang around and get coverted to something useful. Kind of like playing pool when you're drunk.

:lol:

 

 

The main point of 'research' on this is algae scrubbers. With 630nm, the algae grows less (not getting a bright green) and has much less strong attachment to the scrubber screen, so if not harvested often (which isn't as efficient) strands begin to break off. At first it was thought it was a PAR thing - the 630nm were just too strong and the light needed to be farther away or get less current, but while the algae was getting more green it still wouldn't attach as well, switching to 660nm fixed that. Then they noticed adding 450nm in small amounts helped with thickness of the growth pretty significantly, while 470nm brought back some white to the algae (which usually means too much intensity). Swapping the 450nm for 420-430nm gets some more gains in growth and thickness.

 

These same principles should apply to more marine algae than just the turf, and that's why my last refugium I switched from six XM-L 4500K at 2.7A with 80 degree optics to 28x 660nm and 6x 450nm with 90 degree optics. PAR stayed around the same (nearly 400 at the top) but growth increased significantly in chaeto and gracilaria.

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blasterman

Yeah, neutrals are about the worst light source for growth. Warm-white LED's have generous amounts of 630 and amber with some blue component. Cool whites have lotsa 450 with a smidge of 630. Neutrals on the other hand have lots of green. I mix cool white and warm white fortimo arrays for houseplants, and as hard as it is to explain the mix has far more par than a neutral even though the color temp is about the same.

 

Realize though that our resident fluorescent fan boys would claim their T5's have broader red spectrum than anything LEDs emit :P

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  • 2 weeks later...
Weasel Baron

Decided to take the plunge on LED, lets see how this 15w bad boy does.

attachicon.gifFugelampLED.jpg

 

 

i actually did the same, and the chaeto has been growing like a weed since

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Alexraptor

How is the chaeto doing under the red LEDs?

So far so good, seeing some pretty exponential growth.

Allthough it seems to be growing flatter and more compact than it used to under my 6500k CFL lamp, which used to give much more lush growth and depth. will have to wait and see how it ultimately turns out.

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Actually, it is not hard to beat that at all. HpS are really inefficient with macroalgae and a cheap eBay LED unit for about the same price will use much less power, send less heat into your tank, and on top of that grow chaeto much better.

 

Hard to argue with results (see link). I've used red/blue leds and they grow chaeto "ok", but nothing like the HpS bulbs will. That fixture in the video is actually pretty small, should be easy to mount over a refugium.

 

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jedimasterben

Hard to argue with results (see link). I've used red/blue leds and they grow chaeto "ok", but nothing like the HpS bulbs will. That fixture in the video is actually pretty small, should be easy to mount over a refugium.

 

Was the intensity the same between them?

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HarryPotter

 

Hard to argue with results (see link). I've used red/blue leds and they grow chaeto "ok", but nothing like the HpS bulbs will. That fixture in the video is actually pretty small, should be easy to mount over a refugium.

 

Holy C*** thats a lot of chaeto!

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