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Innovative Marine Aquariums

Mystery deaths


pntbll687

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I had two unexplainable deaths this past weekend. A black clown and a neon dottyback. Both were in the same tank, an evolve 8. Lunch time, noon, on Friday they were fine and eating when I fed them. When I got home they were both on the sand in one corner, breathing heavily and unable to swim, almost looked paralyzed. Saturday morning they were both dead.

 

I tested the water Friday night and Saturday. ph 8.2 ammonia between 0-.25ppm Nitrate 0 Nitrite 0. All the inverts in the tank are fine, snails, crabs, etc.

 

My wife did get an anemone for the tank on Thursday, and then got rid of it on Friday. It had a pink foot, tan body and long white tips, may have been a Haitian anemone, but I'm not sure. I didn't see any of the fish touch it, but you never know.

 

Anyone have any suggestions on where to go from here? I still have the tank running with all the CUC still in it to see if anything happens to them.

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Realistically I would say the anemone was likely the problem, if for no other reason except it was the only thing to change in the environment. Could have been a sting, or the anemone may have possibly been carrying some sort of pathogen that affected the fish.

 

I'd give the tank at least a month, 2 would be better, before adding any new fish. This amount of time should be enough to kill off any pathogen if that might have been the cause of death. It's not really common for diseases to be transmittable between fish and inverts, so you should be fine with coral and inverts.

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Thanks for the response. I'm going to let the tank run for now, may end up taking it down. We have two evolve 8's on stands back to back right now. The wife says she's open to getting one tank to sit across the two stands, so right now its up in the air.

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You also mentioned some ammonia present in the tank. Ammonia could also be the culprit. How long has the tank been set up?

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You could start QT on a new fish to add it in a month or so, that way whatever killed the original fish would be out of your DT and you could add it as soon as you felt the tank was ready.

 

8 gallon Evolve also seems on the small side for a clown and a dottyback. Clownfitch might be on to something with ammonia.

 

I would replace your evolves with a 20 long. I love its dimensions.

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You could start QT on a new fish to add it in a month or so, that way whatever killed the original fish would be out of your DT and you could add it as soon as you felt the tank was ready.

 

8 gallon Evolve also seems on the small side for a clown and a dottyback. Clownfitch might be on to something with ammonia.

 

I would replace your evolves with a 20 long. I love its dimensions.

 

I know its a small tank. Both 8g tanks started as QT tanks but ended up housing fish when things didn't work out in the DT. The tank is probably close to a year old now, the other 8g is closer to 2yrs.

 

Ammonia was .25ppm the first testing on Friday night. Did a water change. Was lower than .25ppm but not quite 0 on Saturday morning when I tested after removing the fish.

 

What are the dimensions of a 20 long? The stands measure 29in x 13in, there is a 2in gap between the two stands, but I'm planning on getting a piece of wood to cover the tops to have the next tank sit on.

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Nope. An anemone was added for roughly 24hrs before this happened.

 

The last addition before that was an emerald crab 1-2 months ago.

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Are you testing ammonia with an API test kit?

 

It's not uncommon to read the lowest colors on those test kits on established tanks. I would consider it a faulty test on a 1 year old tank.

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This is just a general statement and not necessarily what I think is wrong, but don't assume that leaving a tank without fish or inhabitants will kill off any pathogens in the tank. Not all parasites are host obligates, some can reproduce on their own using nutrients from the tank. Also without knowing exactly what you're dealing with you can't say that a specific timeframe is insufficent!

 

Sorry just had to get that out of the way. I think that leaving a tank fishless is a good idea when necessary, but only if you know what you're dealing with. Otherwise it may just be a waste of time.

 

Being that the tank was so small I would be concerned that those 2 fish were in there. And it's odd that you would test positive for ammonia and 0 for nitrite and nitrate... Just doesn't make sense unless the test kit was reading a false positive which it probably is unless you made changes recently to the tank. Test it again and see if you can get a more absolute 0 result. What were the temps in the tank? Any reason to believe the temp could have been high for a time? Is the tank open top or closed?

 

When you say "got rid of it" (the anemone), what do you mean? Was it dying or stressed? When damaged or dying they can relase toxins into the tank in the form of nematocyst stinging cells and other nasties. In an 8g tank it would probably kill many of the inhabitants very quickly.

 

Sorry that's about all I can guess given the information you posted. If you have anything else post it otherwise it's just a guess.

 

When you post about mysterious fish deaths look for physical symptoms (markings, spots,. damage, cloudiness, etc..), behavior (jitters, swimming fast/slow, eating, breathing, etc...), and surroundings (how is everything else?).

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Hi. I am surprised the clown was bothered by the ammonia. I think the nem may be bothered more. I have just gone through a similar situation and have narrowed it down to ich. Have you ruled that out yet? Very similar symptoms as well.

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This is just a general statement and not necessarily what I think is wrong, but don't assume that leaving a tank without fish or inhabitants will kill off any pathogens in the tank. Not all parasites are host obligates, some can reproduce on their own using nutrients from the tank. Also without knowing exactly what you're dealing with you can't say that a specific timeframe is insufficent!

 

Sorry just had to get that out of the way. I think that leaving a tank fishless is a good idea when necessary, but only if you know what you're dealing with. Otherwise it may just be a waste of time.

 

Being that the tank was so small I would be concerned that those 2 fish were in there. And it's odd that you would test positive for ammonia and 0 for nitrite and nitrate... Just doesn't make sense unless the test kit was reading a false positive which it probably is unless you made changes recently to the tank. Test it again and see if you can get a more absolute 0 result. What were the temps in the tank? Any reason to believe the temp could have been high for a time? Is the tank open top or closed?

 

When you say "got rid of it" (the anemone), what do you mean? Was it dying or stressed? When damaged or dying they can relase toxins into the tank in the form of nematocyst stinging cells and other nasties. In an 8g tank it would probably kill many of the inhabitants very quickly.

 

Sorry that's about all I can guess given the information you posted. If you have anything else post it otherwise it's just a guess.

 

When you post about mysterious fish deaths look for physical symptoms (markings, spots,. damage, cloudiness, etc..), behavior (jitters, swimming fast/slow, eating, breathing, etc...), and surroundings (how is everything else?).

 

Thanks for the info. When I say I got rid of the anemone i mean it is no longer in the tank. Sent it to my mother in laws house. The anemone itself wasn't in bad shape, it was out and tips fully extended. Could have started to die, sure, but by the time I got home Friday night my wife had it bagged up and ready to be shipped out.

 

I'm almost positive that the test kit is giving a false positive on readings. My wife had done a water change once she saw the fish were in trouble, so when I tested the water it may have only been an hour or so after the water change. I'll test again tomorrow on my lunch from work and report back.

 

Tanks have acrylic lids, but do not completely seal the top, so there is some ventilation. Temperature is constant at 78. Could a heater have malfunctioned, who knows.

 

I looked for signs of what could have caused this on the fish when I removed them. The clown a very slight red tint by the gills. The dotty back was not available for inspection, all that was left was his head, the crabs and snails got him before I could.

 

At this point it's not if I get a new tank, but how long do I have to keep asking my wife before she gives the ok?

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Sounds like a condy. Anemone stings will usually not kill a fish. how long were the fish in the tank? do you have enough oxygenation going on?

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got a chance to test the water again yesterday. ph 8.2, ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrate 10ppm, nitrite 0.25ppm. Some of the reading may be caused by the dotty back getting ripped up by crabs and snails after he died. But I am going to figure there was another issue that caused the spike.

 

The plan for now is to do a 50% water change this weekend and making sure the rear chambers are cleaned out as much as possible. Going to run the tank as inverts only for now until the wife and I decide if we are going to do a 20 long to replace the two 8g.

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