Stock List Help

[reefkeeper17]

Working on a new tank and could use some opinions on my stock list.

 

29g Standard, not the biocube. 20g Sump, 40lbs live rock, with extensive filtration using filter 2x 4inch filter socks, carbon/GFO, refugium, 55g Coralife skimmer,sandbed in both display and refugium, solid water flow(apox. 400gph) with mag5 return pump in drilled tank. 16" Evergrow 2040 lighting, and Precision marine calcium reactor.

 

I would like to stock the following fish:

• Green Spotted Puffer
• Oscellus Clown
• Dwarf Angelfish
• Kaudern's Cardinalfish
• Longnose Hawkfish
• Banded Coral Shrimp

I would also like to have about 3-5 corals/shrooms. Looking at some of the following but could use some opinions.

• Neon Pineapple Tree Coral
• Colony Polyps
• Lavender Mushrooom
• Birdsnest Coral
• Candy Cane Coral
• Trumpet Coral
• Torch Coral

 

[ndrobey]

Scratch the puffer. Green spotted puffers are brackish fish that need slightly salty water, about 1.005 - 1.015. They will not survive in a saltwater aquarium. A puffer will eat all the other fish in the tank you have listed, plus the shrimp and all the corals. Don't expect to keep a CUC crew around it either.

A longnose hawkfish is going to be pretty aggressive for the other fish you have listed.

[reefkeeper17]

Well I am pretty interested in the puffer. I met a guy who had one with a CUC wand it seemed to be doing fine. As for the hawkfish I am not dead set, any other suggestions? Also any suggestions on corals? I think I have the filtration to stock it pretty well but any advice on this would be helpful.

[NinjaReefer]

as mentioned before the puffer is a brackish water fish and not a good idea for a reef at all. http://www.fishlore.com/aquariummagazine/nov08/greenspottedpuffer.htm

 

I dont have any expereince with a hawkfish but the rest of rest of your plan seems good. The only thing is that 29 gallons is pushing the limmit for a dwarf angel. I would try to get one of the smaller varieties that stay 3 inches long. Some get twice that big.

 

Do lots of reading and add things slowley starting with the calmest fish and working up to the most aggressive.

[reefkeeper17]

Any other sort of puffer you would recommend? How does the Blue spotted puffer compare?

[NinjaReefer]

If I was going to try a puffer in a 29 gallon reef I would try one of these 2. But I dont have any real experience. You should do some more reading on these 2 and dont take my word for it.

 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+39+2909&pcatid=2909

 

or

 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+39+250&pcatid=250

 

The bluespotted gets a little bit bigger than these 2. I think these would be a better choice.

[reefkeeper17]

Do you think a flame angelfish would be too aggressive or too big for this setup? I believe if I added him last he might do alright, but I would be a little worried about the corals. I may move away from the dwarf angel but am pretty set on the puffer

[reefkeeper17]

I also am considering a yellowtail damselfish and algae blenny in replacement of the dwarf angel. I would like to have a solid CUC although I wondering if this will get in the way of the puffer and the mandarins need for pods?

[ajmckay]

Honestly your stocking list is a bit (or a lot) on the heavy side. If you get the fish really small you'll probably be okay for a little while but not long term.

 

If you keep up with feeding you'll probably still run into major algae issues quickly even given the filtration you're planning. IMO I would try to resist the temptation to put a dwarf angel in the 29. Probably won't fare too well. There are plenty of other fish that would be better suited. Same for the puffer... It would probably do okay short term but will outgrow the tank relatively soon. Also as mentioned you could very well run into aggression and eating corals and inverts (once mature).

 

I recommend you stick with 1 ocellaris clown, the cardinal, and the hawk fish and call it a day. Alternatively if you're set with the puffer just get that by itself and plan on upgrading tanks in a year or 2.

 

Not trying to say your plans are horrible, but unless you have a longer term solution I see you running into problems with the current list. I can pretty much say that if you add all those fish to a 29g you will likely lose 2 of them at some point plus the SPS & LPS coral (due to high nitrates probably). I would say the likely culprit will be disease, or possibly aggression later on. Sometimes you see people be successful with a lot of fish in a 29g, but usually that's for less than a year and often they either have other tanks ready to move the livestock when things get out of hand, or they experience a few dead fish.

 

See if you can find another persons tank with a similarly high stocking level that has been successful long term. Be wary of "I've seen" type experiences and look for well documented evidence over time that they haven't lost all their fish/corals and started over a few times.

[NinjaReefer]

dwarf angles like to nip at things. Its hard to predict what fish will or wont. I had a flame angel nip at lots of corals. I had a cherub angel and fireball angel that were well behaved most the time but even they would be nip on occasion.

 

I think you might be making things needlessly hard on yourself picking 2 types of fish that are both marginally reef safe, agressive and also pushing the size limits for the tank they can go into.

 

I can understand really wanting to keep a certain type of fish though. If you are willing to give up the ability to keep certian types of corals and inverts that these fish may develope a taste for I say go for it.

 

If it was my tank this is what I would do

 

Fireball Angelfish (Centropyge aurantonotus) My favorite fish I ever owned. Smaller than a flame angel and less prone to nipping at corals. A better choice for your tank in my opinion.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+16+441&pcatid=441

or save money and get this

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+16+455&pcatid=455

 

Leopard Puffer (Canthigaster leoparda)

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+39+2909&pcatid=2909

 

a pair of clownfish

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+27+755&pcatid=755

a pair of cleaner gobies

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+31+1869&pcatid=1869

ajmckay makes some good points. You really are pushing the limits.

[reefkeeper17]

Yeah your probably right about pushing it with the angelfish. I thought it would be a nice addition to the tank but I'm not looking for a hassle right off the bat with nipping at corals, I don't want too aggressive of a tank. Another fish I am interested in, but would not add until later and if I seemed to have enough pods to keep it would be a mandarinfish. How does this stocklist sound?

 

Oscellus Clown

Blue Spotted Puffer or Saddle Vantentini Puffer

Cardinalfish

Yellowtail Damselfish or Yellow Wrasse

Algae Blenny

Depending on the success of the tank given 6 months to a year, adding a mandarinfish. I plan to keep an extra 10-20lbs live rock in the sump, and chaeto to grow pods. I have a 3 part filtration system, including socks/fuge/skimmer, with the option of adding more filter media as well. I also plan do to quite a bit of rock work in the tank, and given that my tank is 18 inches deep, I thought these fish would be alright together as they prefer different levels in the water column.

More feedback would be awesome!

I should also note that I plan to add these fish over the course of a few months if not more based on the health of the tank. Incorporating corals along the way.

[ajmckay]

Hmmm... I don't mean to be overbearing, but based on your "revised" list you're still not getting it.

 

Neither of your stocking lists work for a 29g long term. Go do some searches for other 29g tanks (there are tons of them) and see what kind of fish they're stocking. Don't look at ones that someone started last month, look at tank threads that started last year or even further back. Ask for an update if it needs one. I'm not saying your tank should follow a pre-set formula or mimic someone else's tank, but I am saying that you should use what other people are doing as something of an indication of what should be possible.

 

I can almost guarantee that you'll run into issues in relatively short order. Either dying fish, dying corals, uncontrollable algae, or a combination of these things. For example the toby puffer is listed as reef safe "with caution". That means it will be fine up until the day it isn't, same case with the angels.

 

I think the 29g is a good tank (I had one a loooong time ago) but if you try to cram those fish into it you're going to experience issues.

 

Ocellaris clown, the cardinal fish, and either the hawk fish, yellow tail blue damsel, or something else like a goby/blenny.

These three fish will allow you to keep all the corals on your list, and shrimp too. Alternatively go with the puffer but don't invest a ton in corals unless you don't mind the possibility of running into that issue.

 

I think you should just give stocking a bit more thought. For example if you're really set on your fish list just upgrade the tank size to something in the 40-60+ gallon range. It's easiest to do this upfront, even if it takes a little bit longer to save it's important to get something you'll like.

 

Good luck.

[ndrobey]

I agree. I think what you really want is a bigger tank that you can put the fish you want into.

[Tamberav]

Here is another puffer replacement: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+30+1724&pcatid=1724

 

It may eat corals though.

 

I agree with a bigger tank, maybe a 40B? The fish you have chosen are not low bioloads.

 

The only way I would consider heavy bioloads is if you had vodka or biopellets or zeovit system working (I say working because sometimes people can't get them to work right) AND a much larger skimmer to handle carbon dosing.

 

I personally find sand in a fuge to be a debris trap.

[reefkeeper17]

Yeah maybe the puffer is unrealistic for a 29g. I would rather be able to keep corals and a CUC than a puffer. Do you think scratching the puffer and starting with a clown, cardinalfish, damselfish, and blenny would be an alright stocklist. I would also consider adding the mandarinfish but only if the tank was looking really good and seemed have sufficient pod growth. I was also curious if a clam http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+529+586&pcatid=586 would work well with this sort of stocklist, assuming that I have a couple shrimp/snails. I was also curious if there will be any complication of having an anemone in partnership with the clown. I believe I have sufficient lighting, and the calcium reactor should help keep variations in water quality more stable?

[ajmckay]

Yeah maybe the puffer is unrealistic for a 29g. I would rather be able to keep corals and a CUC than a puffer. Do you think scratching the puffer and starting with a clown, cardinalfish, damselfish, and blenny would be an alright stocklist. I would also consider adding the mandarinfish but only if the tank was looking really good and seemed have sufficient pod growth. I was also curious if a clam http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+529+586&pcatid=586 would work well with this sort of stocklist, assuming that I have a couple shrimp/snails. I was also curious if there will be any complication of having an anemone in partnership with the clown. I believe I have sufficient lighting, and the calcium reactor should help keep variations in water quality more stable?

 

Hey there, I think removing the puffer is a good idea given you want to keep corals and ornamental shrimp. Also it's important to narrow down the stocking list for water quality reasons as mentioned.

 

I can't really comment on the mandarin - you'll have to see how your tank is doing but I think you'll find that the 4 fish you have listed will be plenty. I suggest you substitute your desire to have lots of fish with some other interesting animals. Various shrimp, small crabs, cool snails (I picked up a cowrie a little bit ago and it's bad ass).

 

A clam may work but I'm not familiar with the light you list - the 29 is deeper so you may consider a rock clam that can be placed higher up.

 

I would wait several months before considering an anemone. The reason is I think your tank will have high levels of nitrate and phosphates and anemones need cleaner water. Test your water parameters over the first few months and try to get a feel for the levels in your tank. Then you can decide if an anemone will work. In the meantime continue to research and carefully decide whether an anemone is something you even really want. Remember that they often move around, there's no guarantee it will host the clown, and even BTA's get pretty big over time. Also they can sting other corals and clams and if it dies (like gets too friendly with a powerhead) you'll have a potentially tank crashing situation on your hands. They're nice looking, but also a definite risk.

 

Alternatively as long as you can maintain decent water quality and you don't mind not having the interaction with the clown you could try a rock flower anemone or any of the stichtlodata "maxi-mini" anemones.

[reefkeeper17]

Thanks for all the input ajmckay! Yeah I think the puffer will be more than I am looking for in this tank, I think having a CUC with a few snails shrimp ect will do a good job keeping my tank cleaner, but would this be a problem for accumulating pods?

 

In terms of phosphate levels, will keeping a bag of Phosban on an egg crate in my sump be sufficient in keeping these levels down? Also I do think I could support an anemone or clam with my lighting, its got the output to fry corals even at pretty good depth. although I would probably position them slightly higher in the water column so I didn't have to blast my lights all day.

 

I am considering a http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+27+142&pcatid=142 as I think it will be more likely to befriend an anemone. Do you think he would be aggressive toward any of the other fish? Also would you recommend introducing the clown or the nem first when the time comes? I will probably add the clown last to reduce the likelihood of him being aggressive.

[ajmckay]

Thanks for all the input ajmckay! Yeah I think the puffer will be more than I am looking for in this tank, I think having a CUC with a few snails shrimp ect will do a good job keeping my tank cleaner, but would this be a problem for accumulating pods?

 

In terms of phosphate levels, will keeping a bag of Phosban on an egg crate in my sump be sufficient in keeping these levels down? Also I do think I could support an anemone or clam with my lighting, its got the output to fry corals even at pretty good depth. although I would probably position them slightly higher in the water column so I didn't have to blast my lights all day.

 

I am considering a http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+27+142&pcatid=142 as I think it will be more likely to befriend an anemone. Do you think he would be aggressive toward any of the other fish? Also would you recommend introducing the clown or the nem first when the time comes? I will probably add the clown last to reduce the likelihood of him being aggressive.

 

Glad to help. Choosing your livestock list is one of the primary determinants of whether your tank is successful. I think if you ask anyone they would say spend the time to make sure you're stocking what you want, but just as important what you can handle long term.

 

With 4 fish and shrimp the display tank will most likely contain very few pods. If you leave fish, shrimp, and corals out of the sump you can probably attain a decent population there, though that doesn't necessarily equate to a tank full of pods either. Most likely if you do someday get a mandarin you'll have to acclimate it to frozen or spend the time to feed it in a special enclosure where food can be injected directly. Both are fairly time intensive.

 

It's impossible to tell if a bag of phosban will help your tank in phosphate reduction. I mean obviously it will work, but how well depends on how much phosphate is present in the tank which is unknown at this point.

 

Regarding the Perc, that would probably be fine, though again there's no guarantee that it would accept an anemone as a host. It may depend on what type of anemone - what are you thinking of? I would again wait a while to add an anemone though because they aren't usually tolerant of high nitrates and yours are likely going to be high. So you may want to wait to see what your "normal" level is before making the decision. You don't have to wait to add the clownfish though, you can probably add it any time as long as the other fish you add aren't significantly bigger or smaller than the clownfish.

[cromag27]

You can absolutely acclimate a brackish puffer to full marine. I've done it many times with success. that being said, I agree that you should think twice about it. I also agree that a 40b is a great tank. and if you still want to try a puffer there are a few small species such as the valentini. however, like dwarf angels, they can eat coral.

[reefkeeper17]

 

Glad to help. Choosing your livestock list is one of the primary determinants of whether your tank is successful. I think if you ask anyone they would say spend the time to make sure you're stocking what you want, but just as important what you can handle long term.

 

With 4 fish and shrimp the display tank will most likely contain very few pods. If you leave fish, shrimp, and corals out of the sump you can probably attain a decent population there, though that doesn't necessarily equate to a tank full of pods either. Most likely if you do someday get a mandarin you'll have to acclimate it to frozen or spend the time to feed it in a special enclosure where food can be injected directly. Both are fairly time intensive.

 

It's impossible to tell if a bag of phosban will help your tank in phosphate reduction. I mean obviously it will work, but how well depends on how much phosphate is present in the tank which is unknown at this point.

 

Regarding the Perc, that would probably be fine, though again there's no guarantee that it would accept an anemone as a host. It may depend on what type of anemone - what are you thinking of? I would again wait a while to add an anemone though because they aren't usually tolerant of high nitrates and yours are likely going to be high. So you may want to wait to see what your "normal" level is before making the decision. You don't have to wait to add the clownfish though, you can probably add it any time as long as the other fish you add aren't significantly bigger or smaller than the clownfi

 

That's all good information to hear, I have been looking through quite a few anemone's and am not dead set on any one, my primary goal is have my clown take it as a host, although I know this is not a guarantee, what species are most likely to work well with a perc clown? As far as the pods go, I will just have to wait and see similar to the phosphate/nitrate levels I am sure.

 

 

You can absolutely acclimate a brackish puffer to full marine. I've done it many times with success. that being said, I agree that you should think twice about it. I also agree that a 40b is a great tank. and if you still want to try a puffer there are a few small species such as the valentini. however, like dwarf angels, they can eat coral.

 

I love the idea of having say a valentini puffer for example, being that the blue spotted looks to be too big, but I think the fact that it will likely eat my corals and/or the clean up crew, it might not be worth it for only a 29g. If there was some way to have it as part of my stocklist without these troubles I would definitely reconsider.

[ajmckay]

Carpet and ritteri would be the best bets, but both of those get too large or too aggressive for a 29g.

 

See what others do, but most likely a BTA (bubble tip anemone) is your next best bet.

[lkoechle]

BTAs will host almost anything. That's one of the reasons they are so popular. Other nems will be more particular about hosting fish as some species do not host fish at all.

 

Mandarins I would look into after your tank has been up for a long time. I say this more for you to gain experience rather than pod production. You'd also want to look into how to train them to eat prepared but not all will eat prepared foods. Relying on pods in the tank is a risky business. For example, I have two mandarins right now, male and female. One eats prepared foods (sort of, live black worms but close enough for me), the female eats only pods. I have an ich outbreak and guess what happens? All of my fish need to be out of the tank. I have taken my female away from her food supply and trust me, I'm seriously concerned about her being alive at the end of the month.

[reefkeeper17]

Carpet and ritteri would be the best bets, but both of those get too large or too aggressive for a 29g.

 

See what others do, but most likely a BTA (bubble tip anemone) is your next best bet.

 

I was leaning toward the bubble tip anyway, any advice on placement for lighting reasons?

 

 

BTAs will host almost anything. That's one of the reasons they are so popular. Other nems will be more particular about hosting fish as some species do not host fish at all.

 

Mandarins I would look into after your tank has been up for a long time. I say this more for you to gain experience rather than pod production. You'd also want to look into how to train them to eat prepared but not all will eat prepared foods. Relying on pods in the tank is a risky business. For example, I have two mandarins right now, male and female. One eats prepared foods (sort of, live black worms but close enough for me), the female eats only pods. I have an ich outbreak and guess what happens? All of my fish need to be out of the tank. I have taken my female away from her food supply and trust me, I'm seriously concerned about her being alive at the end of the month.

 

Yeah I have got a lot of people telling me get one that will eat frozen foods, since I plan on waiting anyway, it is likely I will wait for one that is trained or will be very particular about training it. I wont get one until my tank is stable 6+ months or so.