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Best / safest way to lower Nitrate and Phosphate in 10g


_Stitch_

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Hey guys,

 

I'm pretty new and have a 10g AquaMedic Yasha tank. It seems to be running well but i've recently noticed a little bit of hair algae starting to grow. When I check my water with the API Reef Tester Kit I get the following:

 

Nitrate 40ppm

Phosphate 0.25 ppm (next level above 0)

 

What is the best / safest way to bring these down? I'm guessing a large water change, but how much is safe to do in one go?

 

Also, I have a Bubble Tip Anemone which is quite high in the tank. If I was to change 20% then there is a chance it might be out of water. Would this matter for a few minutes while I'm swapping the water?

 

Thanks for any tips.

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First, get a low range phosphate/phosphorus test kit. The target is 0.01 to 0.03ppm phosphate. Your kit is almost useless in determining proper levels (as it's about 10 times higher than it should be before it even shows up on your test kit).

 

Sure a large water change is a pretty cheap and safe way to export nutrients. A 50% water change (if using water with no phosphate or nitrate) will reduce your levels in half. So really you'd need a larger water change or a series of large water changes. The anemone will be fine if exposed to air for a short period of time.

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Hey guys,

 

I'm pretty new and have a 10g AquaMedic Yasha tank. It seems to be running well but i've recently noticed a little bit of hair algae starting to grow. When I check my water with the API Reef Tester Kit I get the following:

 

Nitrate 40ppm

Phosphate 0.25 ppm (next level above 0)

 

What is the best / safest way to bring these down? I'm guessing a large water change, but how much is safe to do in one go?

 

Also, I have a Bubble Tip Anemone which is quite high in the tank. If I was to change 20% then there is a chance it might be out of water. Would this matter for a few minutes while I'm swapping the water?

 

Thanks for any tips.

 

For me it's Marine Pure for nitrates and Poly-filter for phosphates. Marine Pure basically made it completely worry-free in regards to nitrates, since it lasts indefinitely. Just need to change out Poly-filter once in a while.

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First, get a low range phosphate/phosphorus test kit. The target is 0.01 to 0.03ppm phosphate. Your kit is almost useless in determining proper levels (as it's about 10 times higher than it should be before it even shows up on your test kit).

 

Sure a large water change is a pretty cheap and safe way to export nutrients. A 50% water change (if using water with no phosphate or nitrate) will reduce your levels in half. So really you'd need a larger water change or a series of large water changes. The anemone will be fine if exposed to air for a short period of time.

 

Hi,

I am still a bit confused with this. I started using the Aquarimate app and saw a narrow range for the Phosphate. However the API test kit I have is the Reef version so I assumed it would be testing an appropriate range.

I can see a little hair algae so put this down to Phosphate level after reading online.

 

 

For me it's Marine Pure for nitrates and Poly-filter for phosphates. Marine Pure basically made it completely worry-free in regards to nitrates, since it lasts indefinitely. Just need to change out Poly-filter once in a while.

 

Thanks. I'll take a look into these, or something similar.

 

I was just wondering if I could bring these levels down safely manually and then just be extra disciplined monitoring in future?

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Thanks. I'll take a look into these, or something similar.

 

I was just wondering if I could bring these levels down safely manually and then just be extra disciplined monitoring in future?

 

Well you can, I just find it easier to establish good filtrative capability. After all, sometimes it's just hard to be disciplined and on point with maintenance - in those cases you wouldn't want the tank to crash before you have a chance to rectify issues. Imo anyways.

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Well you can, I just find it easier to establish good filtrative capability. After all, sometimes it's just hard to be disciplined and on point with maintenance - in those cases you wouldn't want the tank to crash before you have a chance to rectify issues. Imo anyways.

 

Thanks. I appreciate your reply.

 

Would the items you mentioned be ok being placed in the back section of an all-in-one tank?

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Thanks. I appreciate your reply.

 

Would the items you mentioned be ok being placed in the back section of an all-in-one tank?

 

Yes, they would be. Place the Marine Pure before the Poly-filter. There are various types of Marine Pure out there, if it doesn't fit, you can cut it up to size.

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However the API test kit I have is the Reef version so I assumed it would be testing an appropriate range.

Yeah, you'd think, but that's not the case. Coral uses phosphate for energy, so you don't want the level to be zero. You really want it to be 0.01 to 0.03 ppm. Anything higher than that can lead to algae blooms.

 

What some newbies don't seem to understand is that once an algae bloom occurs, the detectable levels go down (as the algae is utilizing it for growth). That's why it's so important to monitor before you have an algae problem. I recommend a Hanna Phosphorus ULR Checker (where the recommended value should be between 3 and 10 ppb phosphorus). It's digital, so you don't have to compare color charts.

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gulfsurfer101

I'd do a 50% water change and run a bag of purigen and chemipure elite. I was doing this but had to ditch my cpe and just stick with purigen since my large clam actually required some ammonia and dead organics in the water. The water I was using was too damn clean, and that cause I am using nsw which is far from clean but high in zooplankton and if collected at the right time even lots of phytoplankton.

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Like Seabass stated before. Water changes can be a cheep way to lower organics and Nitrates. As long as you are using ultra pure water with a good salt. The best thing is to try and eliminate the alga's food source. Which is Phosphates, Nitrates and Silicates. There are many ways to do this. I personally use a good GFO and Chemi-pure elite. You would get better results using some kind of canister type filter for GFO and or carbon vs. putting product in the tank. I would not recommend doing such a big water change at one time. Such a big water change will most likely shock the tank to much. I would rather see you do a bunch of smaller water changes over the next few weeks, to help remove the dead organics as the algae dies off.

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I would rather see you do a bunch of smaller water changes over the next few weeks, to help remove the dead organics as the algae dies off.

Smaller water changes can be effective along with chemical media. However, by themselves, it takes a lot of them to bring phosphate levels down to acceptable levels. For example, if you start at 0.25 ppm of phoshate, don't add any additional phosphate (which is impossible to do if you feed anything), and do 10% water changes, the resulting phosphate level will be reduced as follows:

  • 0.225
  • 0.2025
  • 0.18225
  • 0.164025
  • 0.1476225
  • 0.13286025
  • 0.119574225
  • 0.1076168025
  • 0.0968551223
  • 0.08716961
  • 0.078452649
  • 0.0706073841
  • 0.0635466457
  • 0.0571919811
  • 0.051472783
  • 0.0463255047
  • 0.0416929542
  • 0.0375236588
  • 0.0337712929
  • 0.0303941636

That's 20 water changes to reduce phosphate to acceptable levels. However, along with other export methods, like a GFO reactor, you can keep phosphate levels in check while performing smaller water changes (just like mpg732 does).

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Hey guys,

 

Thanks for all the comments and assistance. I actually didn't see these until after I'd started my water change.

 

Today I performed a 30% with RODI, about 13 litres. I use Red Sea Coral Pro Salt.

 

I also picked up a new higher precision Phosphate test from Nyos. It tests between 0.025 and 1.0. One hour after Water Change it was reading 0.3 mg/l.

 

Nitrates were still around 30 to 40.

 

Should I do the same water change tomorrow or wait a couple of days first?

 

I'm not quite up to reactor level yet but I like the sound of Chemi-pure elite. Would a small bag of this work in the back of my Aquamedic Yasha?

 

Thanks again.

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Nano sapiens

Water changes wll only temporarily bring down your nitrates if nothing else is changed. Test this out yourself by performing a few water changes down to say 20 ppm, then continue on 'as usual' and see how long it takes for the system go back to 40 ppm.

 

The questions to ask yourself is why do I have high nitrate (NO3) and high inorganic phosphates (PO4) in the first place? In respect to nitrate, why are my substrate bacteria unable to complete the nitrogen cycle completely, thus causing a buildup of NO3 in the system? Contrary to popular belief, higher levels of NO3 and PO4 are not inevitable in a closed system when a few simple maintenance procedures are routinely performed.

 

How old is the tank and do you regularly clean any detrital deposits (substrate vacuuming, live rock basting, etc.)?

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Water changes wll only temporarily bring down your nitrates if nothing else is changed. Test this out yourself by performing a few water changes down to say 20 ppm, then continue on 'as usual' and see how long it takes for the system go back to 40 ppm.

 

The questions to ask yourself is why do I have high nitrate (NO3) and high inorganic phosphates (PO4) in the first place? In respect to nitrate, why are my substrate bacteria unable to complete the nitrogen cycle completely, thus causing a buildup of NO3 in the system? Contrary to popular belief, higher levels of NO3 and PO4 are not inevitable in a closed system when a few simple maintenance procedures are routinely performed.

 

How old is the tank and do you regularly clean any detrital deposits (substrate vacuuming, live rock basting, etc.)?

 

Thanks. I'll continue with some water changes and see what affect that has.

 

To be honest I'm not sure what could be causing the high values. I only purchased this tank (2nd hand) about 10 days ago. Previous owner said it had been running for about 8 months.

 

It's my first time with reef aquariums. I'm mainly planted/co2, african cichlid and fresh water shrimp prior to this.

 

The tank itself looks very clean, glass, sand, rock work, corals, back filter section etc. Only it's starting to get small areas of hair algae, hence my testing and this thread.

 

Everything i've seen online so far says not to vacuum the substrate, plus it's very fine sand so I'm not sure if that would be possible. I don't know what live rock basting is so will google that shortly.

 

In the tank I have 2 x clownfish, 1 x anemone, 2 x turbo snails, 1 x red leg hermit crab and about 5 small corals.

 

Here is a picture I took yesterday straight after water change.

 

image.jpg

 

Here is the main area where the algae has started to appear.

 

image.jpg

 

The tank looks crystal clear this morning.

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I wonder if the API is giving you an accurate Nitrate test. I would get a second test kit or take it to a LFS and have them test it. If the Nitrates are High, I will guess it came from the sand bed, probably from the move. When you bought and moved the tank, how much of the original water did you bring with you? Your RODI water, are you making it your self or buying it? If so are you sure its RODI not just RO?

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Nano sapiens

I wonder if the API is giving you an accurate Nitrate test. I would get a second test kit or take it to a LFS and have them test it. If the Nitrates are High, I will guess it came from the sand bed, probably from the move. When you bought and moved the tank, how much of the original water did you bring with you? Your RODI water, are you making it your self or buying it? If so are you sure its RODI not just RO?

 

API is usually okay on high ranges, but not so good for low range. But, good suggestion to get a second reading.

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I wonder if the API is giving you an accurate Nitrate test. I would get a second test kit or take it to a LFS and have them test it. If the Nitrates are High, I will guess it came from the sand bed, probably from the move. When you bought and moved the tank, how much of the original water did you bring with you? Your RODI water, are you making it your self or buying it? If so are you sure its RODI not just RO?

 

I do have another Nitrate test so will run both later.

 

The guy I bought it from had only done a water change the night before the move. We used 100% of the water, but yes the sand bed was completely disturbed, although it looked clean. I then only topped up the water for the first 5 to 7 days.

 

RO water is from LFS. my TDS reader shows this at between 0 to 5 TDS. I'm not 100% sure on the DI part but will check with them.

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Nano sapiens

 

Thanks. I'll continue with some water changes and see what affect that has.

 

To be honest I'm not sure what could be causing the high values. I only purchased this tank (2nd hand) about 10 days ago. Previous owner said it had been running for about 8 months.

 

It's my first time with reef aquariums. I'm mainly planted/co2, african cichlid and fresh water shrimp prior to this.

 

The tank itself looks very clean, glass, sand, rock work, corals, back filter section etc. Only it's starting to get small areas of hair algae, hence my testing and this thread.

 

Everything i've seen online so far says not to vacuum the substrate, plus it's very fine sand so I'm not sure if that would be possible. I don't know what live rock basting is so will google that shortly.

 

In the tank I have 2 x clownfish, 1 x anemone, 2 x turbo snails, 1 x red leg hermit crab and about 5 small corals.

 

Here is a picture I took yesterday straight after water change.

 

image.jpg

 

Here is the main area where the algae has started to appear.

 

image.jpg

 

The tank looks crystal clear this morning.

 

8-15 months without any sand bed maintenance is about right for when higher nitrates and phosphates tend to appear. What we don't know is if the system has run with higher nutrient levels for a while now or whether the levels you are seeing are due to disturbances to the sand bed/live rock. If the algae starts to take over quickly, then it's the later...

 

In a nut shell, here's the deal. There are two primary mehods to handling nitrates and phosphates.

 

One method goes after the nutrient source (detritus in the sand bed and live rocks, mainly) via regular water changes with sand bed vacuuming and blowing the detritus out of the live rocks with a turkey baster or a small hand-held power head. This is the method that I use exclusively so I don't have, or need, any mechanical or chemical filtration. But, it requires a rather disciplined maintenance schedule which needs to be customized to each tank (none of them operate in exactly the same way due to a multitude of factors). Here's an idea of what's involved:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/327364-maintenance-and-the-nano-reef-tank/

 

The other is to deal with nitrates and phosphates via GFO, GAC, mechanical filtration, skimming, etc. This is easier to manage in larger tanks with a much larger water volume since changes to the system tend to be much slower, but can be made to work in nano tanks, too, with careful testing and proper attention to the typically rising nutrient levels.

 

Of course, a combination of both 'methods' can also work. The immediate goal is to lower nitrate and phosphate to levels that don't encourage algae blooms and having a methodology that does that is a large part of being a successful reef keeper. To maintain the system, the main takeway is to achieve a balance in respect to the import and export of nutrients so that algae don't take over the system and the corals can flourish.

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Nano sapiens

 

I do have another Nitrate test so will run both later.

 

The guy I bought it from had only done a water change the night before the move. We used 100% of the water, but yes the sand bed was completely disturbed, although it looked clean. I then only topped up the water for the first 5 to 7 days.

 

RO water is from LFS. my TDS reader shows this at between 0 to 5 TDS. I'm not 100% sure on the DI part but will check with them.

 

Good to hear that the sand bed looked clean. Based on this, it appears that the bed was at least periodically cleaned by the previous owner.

 

Ideally, you want to always see '0' when testing with the TDS meter. This usually requires RO/DI, which is most common, or distilled water (from a source that doesn't use copper pipping). RO/DI can be made at home with the proper equipment or can also be found in some supermarkets, along with distilled..

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Hard to tell from picture but wonder if lack of water flow may be an issue with this tank. Tanks not that old and doesn't have a think sand bed. I am surprised to see high Nitrates at this point. Unfortunately we don't have a good history on this tank.

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8-15 months without any sand bed maintenance is about right for when higher nitrates and phosphates tend to appear. What we don't know is if the system has run with higher nutrient levels for a while now or whether the levels you are seeing are due to disturbances to the sand bed/live rock. If the algae starts to take over quickly, then it's the later...

 

In a nut shell, here's the deal. There are two primary mehods to handling nitrates and phosphates.

 

One method goes after the nutrient source (detritus in the sand bed and live rocks, mainly) via regular water changes with sand bed vacuuming and blowing the detritus out of the live rocks with a turkey baster or a small hand-held power head. This is the method that I use exclusively so I don't have, or need, any mechanical or chemical filtration. But, it requires a rather disciplined maintenance schedule which needs to be customized to each tank (none of them operate in exactly the same way due to a multitude of factors). Here's an idea of what's involved:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/327364-maintenance-and-the-nano-reef-tank/

 

The other is to deal with nitrates and phosphates via GFO, GAC, mechanical filtration, skimming, etc. This is easier to manage in larger tanks with a much larger water volume since changes to the system tend to be much slower, but can be made to work in nano tanks, too, with careful testing and proper attention to the typically rising nutrient levels.

 

Of course, a combination of both 'methods' can also work. The immediate goal is to lower nitrate and phosphate to levels that don't encourage algae blooms and having a methodology that does that is a large part of being a successful reef keeper. To maintain the system, the main takeway is to achieve a balance in respect to the import and export of nutrients so that algae don't take over the system and the corals can flourish.

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for this information and also the maintenance link, that was a good read. Do you have any tips for vacuuming very fine sand? Is this possible? The skimmer appears to be doing a good job but i'm going to see if there is any other mechanical filtration I can add to help right now.

 

 

Good to hear that the sand bed looked clean. Based on this, it appears that the bed was at least periodically cleaned by the previous owner.

 

Ideally, you want to always see '0' when testing with the TDS meter. This usually requires RO/DI, which is most common, or distilled water (from a source that doesn't use copper pipping). RO/DI can be made at home with the proper equipment or can also be found in some supermarkets, along with distilled..

 

Yes, during the move the tank and sand appeared very clean. We even reused 95% of the original tank water.

 

I'll double check with the LFS later today on type and TDS level of the water.

 

Hard to tell from picture but wonder if lack of water flow may be an issue with this tank. Tanks not that old and doesn't have a think sand bed. I am surprised to see high Nitrates at this point. Unfortunately we don't have a good history on this tank.

 

I've actually turned the flow down slightly as it appeared crazy in this tank. It has a NanoProp 5,000 which can be set to 2,000 to 5,000 lph in a 37l tank. I would be very surprised if flow is an issue.

 

Last night I tested before water change and received the following:

  • Nitrate 30 ppm on API test and 25 ppm on JBL test
  • Phosphate 0.3

 

Before draining I used a turkey baster to blow off all the rocks. Changed 30% of water and retested after 90 minutes.

  • Nitrate 20 ppm (on both tests)
  • Phosphate 0.25

Not sure what best plan of action is right now. I was going to wait 2 to 3 days and then change more water and also see if I can source some purigen and chemipure elite.

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To clean the sand, all you really need to do is run your "hand" through the sand right before you do a water change. You don't have much sand so I don't think you need to do much more then that. Another option wold be to add a maintenance crew in the tank. Get some thing that will help mix up the sand bed.

 

Keep up with smaller water changes, remember as algae dies it releases organics back into the water. So keep it up for a while past the point you no longer see algae.

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For me it's Marine Pure for nitrates and Poly-filter for phosphates. Marine Pure basically made it completely worry-free in regards to nitrates, since it lasts indefinitely. Just need to change out Poly-filter once in a while.

 

I don't understand how MarinePure lowered your nitrates. MarinePure ceramic bio-media provides enormous surface area for bacteria to grow on. However, according to the manufacturer, unless you use the 4 inch thick MarinePure blocks, the only thing MarinePure enhances is nitrification; i.e., aerobic bacteria convert Ammonia ➞ Nitrites ➞ Nitrates. It's only deep inside the 4" blocks, where anaerobic bacteria thrive, and anaerobic bacteria are needed for denitrification; i.e., the reduction of Nitrates to molecular Nitrogen.

 

In a nano, without a refugium, there is no place to add the MarinePure 4 inch blocks. The only ways to lower Nitrates in a nano without a refugium is via water changes and marine plants. (And it takes a lot of plants to lower Nitrates and Phosphates.) To be clear, I'm not saying MarinePure can't be helpful in a 10 g nano (I use some of the 1.5" MarinePure balls in my nano). But don't count on MarinePure to lower nitrates.

 

Removing Nitrates is only one part of the equation. Preventing their accumulation is the other side of the equation.

 

To remove Nitrates: do water changes.

 

To reduce Nitrate production: decrease the amount you feed the tank, use Purigen (which actually absorbs the nitrogenous chemicals that break down into Ammonia), and consider using a small protein skimmer - such as IM's Desktop Ghost Skimmer.

 

To reduce Phosphates, reduce feedings, frequent water changes, and use a GFO. (The GFO doesn't have to be used with a reactor. I have GFO in my InTank Media Basket and it works fine.)

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I don't understand how MarinePure lowered your nitrates. MarinePure ceramic bio-media provides enormous surface area for bacteria to grow on. However, according to the manufacturer, unless you use the 4 inch thick MarinePure blocks, the only thing MarinePure enhances is nitrification; i.e., aerobic bacteria convert Ammonia ➞ Nitrites ➞ Nitrates. It's only deep inside the 4" blocks, where anaerobic bacteria thrive, and anaerobic bacteria are needed for denitrification; i.e., the reduction of Nitrates to molecular Nitrogen.

 

 

In a nano, without a refugium, there is no place to add the MarinePure 4 inch blocks. The only ways to lower Nitrates in a nano without a refugium is via water changes and marine plants. (And it takes a lot of plants to lower Nitrates and Phosphates.) To be clear, I'm not saying MarinePure can't be helpful in a 10 g nano (I use some of the 1.5" MarinePure balls in my nano). But don't count on MarinePure to lower nitrates.

The manufacturer is actually being conservative it would seem, when providing information. I had a block cut in multiple pieces to fit in the display and the back-filter, the largest therefore is only half the block. But it was still able to easily remove nitrates. So yes, I am suggesting that one should use the block. However, by saying that the manufacturer are being conservative, I am talking about more than just the block. I have tested it, and even half a cube (1"x2"x2") is capable of denitrification.

 

So even if one is to follow their recommendations, a block can be used, just cut up to size. Otherwise really even smaller bits can do what's needed.

 

I do think that the edged Marine Pure products are better than the spheres, as when placed in an area, allows for less water to flow around them. Though I haven't actually used the spheres, so can't say for certain.

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