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SUMP idea


EvilFish

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Hi,

Can somebody check my SUMP idea?

It's good? Can I make it even better?

 

This sump can take 8.8G water from the tank. Its OK for 107G tank (60x23x18)?

Thanks

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My thoughts.

 

- Sump looks good. Normally I would go | Drain/Skimmer | Fuge | Return | Except in the case where your flow through the sump will be very fast, then you can manually adjust how much water goes to the refugium.

 

- Sounds like the sump can absorb about 1" of display water volume. IMO that's not much unless you have siphon breaks on your return lines.

 

- 2000gph pump seems like a lot for what is essentially 100g unless you have tons of head loss expected. If you're planning a large draw from the fuge I would say that the flow through the fuge as you have it shouldn't be very much at all or you'll create a mini sand storm in that area! Also if there's too much flow through the fuge it could create bubbles that would possibly get sucked into the pump and cause noise. Okay I just looked up the pump (Jebao?) and it looks like it's adjustable from about 650gph to 2000gph... Makes a little more sense, but what I said still applies I think. You'll have to devise a sort of baffle or something for the fuge feed so the flow doesn't hit the sand. You might be able to drill holes in a piece of PVC and sink it under water? This would give an even flow across the whole fuge and if you did it along the back it would allow easy access without having a big pipe in the way.

 

 

- 1.5" pipe is probably a bit on the expensive/large side. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work though. Lower velocity throughput I think may be a benefit? You could definitely reduce the pipe diameter going to the fuge though. Going with a smaller gate valve would probably be a decent $ savings.

 

- I would either use a strainer on the intake of the return pump, or build a filter sponge holder at the fuge exit to help prevent chunks of chaeto and other things from getting into the return pump. A sponge or intake strainer might also help trap bubbles that come in from the fuge.

 

If I can think of anything else I'll be sure to post it :)

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JavaJacketOC

Unless you're going to take all the preventative measures to ensure that the display does not drain into the sump in the event of a power outage or just during routing maintenence I think you're setting yourself up for a sump overflow.

 

Also, as ajmckay stated you don't really want that much water running through your fuge or even your skimmer areas really, you need to give the skimmer and macro algae a chance to work on the water.

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Thanks friends!

 

I redone the buffles between the skimmer and return for better waterline control for the skimmer.

 

About the flow rate. 1.5 inch plumbing will give me 1300GPH via gravity (Herbie overflow).

So, I can use 1 inch plumbing thats 600GPH.

 

2000GPH pump will provide 1300GPH at 4.5 feet (36 inch stand and 18 inch tank). Some flow will be used by the fuge, some for reactors (charbon or purigen or chemi pure or UV).

 

So, you think 1 inch plumbing with 600GPH is OK?

 

 

My thoughts.

 

- Sump looks good. Normally I would go | Drain/Skimmer | Fuge | Return | Except in the case where your flow through the sump will be very fast, then you can manually adjust how much water goes to the refugium.

 

- Sounds like the sump can absorb about 1" of display water volume. IMO that's not much unless you have siphon breaks on your return lines.

 

- 2000gph pump seems like a lot for what is essentially 100g unless you have tons of head loss expected. If you're planning a large draw from the fuge I would say that the flow through the fuge as you have it shouldn't be very much at all or you'll create a mini sand storm in that area! Also if there's too much flow through the fuge it could create bubbles that would possibly get sucked into the pump and cause noise. Okay I just looked up the pump (Jebao?) and it looks like it's adjustable from about 650gph to 2000gph... Makes a little more sense, but what I said still applies I think. You'll have to devise a sort of baffle or something for the fuge feed so the flow doesn't hit the sand. You might be able to drill holes in a piece of PVC and sink it under water? This would give an even flow across the whole fuge and if you did it along the back it would allow easy access without having a big pipe in the way.

 

 

- 1.5" pipe is probably a bit on the expensive/large side. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work though. Lower velocity throughput I think may be a benefit? You could definitely reduce the pipe diameter going to the fuge though. Going with a smaller gate valve would probably be a decent $ savings.

 

- I would either use a strainer on the intake of the return pump, or build a filter sponge holder at the fuge exit to help prevent chunks of chaeto and other things from getting into the return pump. A sponge or intake strainer might also help trap bubbles that come in from the fuge.

 

If I can think of anything else I'll be sure to post it :)

 

Can I use a filter sock for the fuge?

 

 

Unless you're going to take all the preventative measures to ensure that the display does not drain into the sump in the event of a power outage or just during routing maintenence I think you're setting yourself up for a sump overflow.

 

Also, as ajmckay stated you don't really want that much water running through your fuge or even your skimmer areas really, you need to give the skimmer and macro algae a chance to work on the water.

 

Do you know how much flow I need for my fuge? 200-300GPH?

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Whatever flow rate you choose just make sure the drain has more capacity than the return pump will ever pump ;) One thing to think about though - your return chamber is only going to be 9x18x10", less the displacement of the pump. Make sure you have an ATO because if the water level drops much at all the pump might start to suck air.

 

As for the fuge, I would shoot for less than 100gph through there. pushing 2-300gph through a 14x18 space that's only 8" deep would probably cause a swirlstorm of sand and push all your algae out of the fuge. So shoot for a slow flow through there and also add a piece of egg crate or some grid to keep the algae from falling into the return chamber and clogging the pump.

 

 

In this drawing I've put the baffles back to their original position, just made them taller (if you want a 10" water level you need 10" tall baffles - same for 13" depth). I extended the fuge feed out to the end of the tank and then I have it going under water (to reduce splashing) with a right angle so that the pipe outlet is pointed toward the front of the tank. This should prevent a big hole in the sand directly under the feed outlet.

 

I added some mesh of some sort to the top of the fuge baffle to keep algae from getting into the return chamber and screwing up the pump.

 

Finally I removed the 2nd baffle for the fuge side. IMO it's not really doing anything. Really you don't want the outlet to be on the bottom of the chamber because if any bubbles or anything come out at the bottom they're much more likely to get sucked into the pump and create noise while sending them to your display tank to swirl around also. That extra baffle just doesn't seem to really be doing anything.

 

Finally, I'm trying to think if running media reactors off the return pump would be a good idea or not... It seems like it wouldn't be at first, but I suppose as long as you have another gate valve to slow the flow it should be okay. I don't think it would pose any additional stress to the motor...

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The nice thing about your choice of pump is that it is adjustable. I built my sump for my 90 like yours. I chose a bio pellet reactor and made the fuge into a frag tank. I used 1.5" for the drain and 1" for the return. 1.5" is overkill for all the plumbing. That second baffle on the fuge side is not needed.

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The nice thing about your choice of pump is that it is adjustable. I built my sump for my 90 like yours. I chose a bio pellet reactor and made the fuge into a frag tank. I used 1.5" for the drain and 1" for the return. 1.5" is overkill for all the plumbing. That second baffle on the fuge side is not needed.

 

Thanks!

 

Is there any water noise from fuge?

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Looks good! I do have a few comments though...

 

1) Make sure that the pipe feeding the fuge isn't pointed straight down or you'll likely get a sandstorm. You can just put a 90 degree elbow on the output under the water. Alternatively you could create a spray bar by running a piece of PVC horizontally just under the water surface with holed drilled all over it to. Finally, another good option would be to use loc line. You could have a Y split at the bottom and short lengths of loc line to direct the flow to a few different spots in the fuge. You just don't want any dead spots whatever you decide to do.

 

2) The 10" baffle can be 11" if you want... Technically the water level in the middle return pump chamber is dependent on the ATO, not the baffles. 10" is fine though if you feel you want that - as in it won't cause any issues.

 

3) Make the fuge baffle from black acrylic or otherwise try to block light from getting into the other 2 chambers. This will help reduce algae.

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Looks good! I do have a few comments though...

 

1) Make sure that the pipe feeding the fuge isn't pointed straight down or you'll likely get a sandstorm. You can just put a 90 degree elbow on the output under the water. Alternatively you could create a spray bar by running a piece of PVC horizontally just under the water surface with holed drilled all over it to. Finally, another good option would be to use loc line. You could have a Y split at the bottom and short lengths of loc line to direct the flow to a few different spots in the fuge. You just don't want any dead spots whatever you decide to do.

 

2) The 10" baffle can be 11" if you want... Technically the water level in the middle return pump chamber is dependent on the ATO, not the baffles. 10" is fine though if you feel you want that - as in it won't cause any issues.

 

3) Make the fuge baffle from black acrylic or otherwise try to block light from getting into the other 2 chambers. This will help reduce algae.

 

Thanks!

 

1. Spay bar sounds good! I need to put it 1 inch below the water line?

3. Thanks, I didn't think about that.

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Thanks!

 

1. Spay bar sounds good! I need to put it 1 inch below the water line?

3. Thanks, I didn't think about that.

 

You can put a spray bar anywhere, but if it's outside the water spraying down you'll probably get some splashing noise, a few micro bubbles, and such... IMO would work best slightly submerged. try to use threaded fittings so you can clean everything easily and also so you can direct the flow and stick a union nearby so it's easy to take off. You can put a tee in the middle like this picasso of paint pics, or instead of using a tee in the middle you could use an elbow off to one side.

post-39800-0-25224600-1429542908_thumb.gif

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You can put a spray bar anywhere, but if it's outside the water spraying down you'll probably get some splashing noise, a few micro bubbles, and such... IMO would work best slightly submerged. try to use threaded fittings so you can clean everything easily and also so you can direct the flow and stick a union nearby so it's easy to take off. You can put a tee in the middle like this picasso of paint pics, or instead of using a tee in the middle you could use an elbow off to one side.

 

Thanks!

 

If I'll use the loc line, do I need to foward flow at the bottom (sand bed) or sump sides (glass wall)?

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Those drawings are awesome! Can I ask what program you used to make blueprints like that? It's a lot easier for me to understand when I see the picture instead of trying to imagine what the other person is building in my head.

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