Fast Cycling Time Frame

[Mrkrsll]

I have a 20 gallon long set up which is my first reef tank.

I bought 20 lbs of dry rock and went to the LFS and bought 3 lbs of live rock to seed the dry rock. This was on a Sunday.

Checked the water parameters on Wed and not only was there ammonia present, but nitrites were present as well and low levels on nitrate.

Does this seem a bit accelerated?

Within three days, I was already in the middle stages of the cycle.

 

I'll add one thing. The dry rock was bought from someone online. It was once live rock in their tank, but it was out of the water for 2 months so I doubt anything would still be living on it and I scrubbed it really well.

 

Thanks

[Azedenkae]

Not surprised at all. Some is just faster or slower than others.

[ReefSafeSolutions]

For what it's worth, I didn't even have much of a cycle in my tank...all my live rock from the store was fully cured. I have about 2-3" of live sand as well, and I kept checking the water every so often, expecting a spike of some kind...nothing. Let it sit like that for a couple of weeks, still got nothing, so dropped a duncan in there just to see what would happen, and it LOVED the water. Added a fish a couple of weeks later with no problems. Not at all what I was expecting to see, but I also didn't know the live rock was fully cured until a month after the fact, haha!

[gulfsurfer101]

Lol, in no way did three pound of liverock fully cure a 20g in three days unless that rock was blessed by Reef Jesus! Your tank hasn't officially started cycling yet. I would try and introduce an ammonia source and let your anorobic bacteria something to feed off of and spread out across your rock and sand. It's going to take longer and that's the downfall of using dry rock. Using a few pounds of liverock just defeats the whole purpose of cycling with dry rock.

[ajmckay]

Lol, in no way did three pound of liverock fully cure a 20g in three days unless that rock was blessed by Reef Jesus! Your tank hasn't officially started cycling yet. I would try and introduce an ammonia source and let your anorobic bacteria something to feed off of and spread out across your rock and sand. It's going to take longer and that's the downfall of using dry rock. Using a few pounds of liverock just defeats the whole purpose of cycling with dry rock.

??? What do you mean he hasn't started cycling yet? I agree that it typically takes longer before fish can be added - but that's a result of the curing time more than establishing the cycle itself.

 

I'm amazed at how many inconsistencies there are about the simple process that is "cycling" a tank.

 

If you think about it - what we mean when we say "cycled" is that all the necessary bacteria are present in the tank. That's it. And by this definition he apparently got decent enough quality live rock that has all the necessary bacteria in it. This bacteria will very quickly start to colonize the dry rock, making it "live".

 

All you need to do now is wait for any curing to take place. By curing I mean that something in the tank is decaying and contributing ammonia to the tank. There may be a bit of die off from your 3lbs of live rock, but more likely there is still some dead stuff in the pores/cracks of the dry rock that will take some time to decompose fully. At some point the rate of decomposition will slow such that ammonia and nitrite read 0. As long as nitrates are reasonable you can begin stocking at this point. Could take a week, could take a few weeks it all depends on how much dead organic matter is in those rocks.

 

Now one thing gulf did hit on was introducing an ammonia source. If your plan is to add all your fish at once then you may need to "beef up" your bio-filter a bit before hand. To do this you would refrain from water changes and skimming and even possibly add extra organic material (like tossing in some food cubes occasionally) to the tank for it to decompose and provide nutrients to pre-grow the bio-filter in anticipation for a higher bio-load (the waste producing inhabitants of your tank along with the additional waste created by feeding them). Another option would be to add a bacterial starter like bio-spira or dr. tims etc... The only thing you want to avoid is adding too much bio-load (fish, inverts, etc) at once to a tank with an immature (but working) bio-filter. The result of doing that will be an ammonia spike of some kind. Alternately you could stock slowly, allowing a week or so between significant livestock additions and allow the bio-filter to adapt between additions.

[Mrkrsll]

Great info and insight. Thanks!

 

I just checked parameters again and ammonia = 0.50 ppm nitrite = 1.0 ppm and nitrate = 20 ppm.

 

Once the water is stable with ammonia & nitrites at zero and very low nitrate, I'll add a few hermit crabs and some snails. Then give it a bit make sure water is stable again and introduce my first fish. It's going to be a slow process which I don't mind cause it's giving more time to research.

 

Thanks!!!

[ajmckay]

So what you're seeing is completely within the realm of "normal"

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with choosing the slow track! If you did want to speed up the curing of the rock you can up the temp a little and use a baster or a powerhead to blow off the rocks daily.

 

You probably don't need to test daily as this process will likely take a few more weeks based on your timeframe so far.

 

Good luck.

[Murphs_Reef]

Hmmm I thought that a 2 months ago.. Amazed at a 4 day cycle, I added 2 snails... Then..... The ammonia wants sky high... The cycle took 4 weeks and 2 snails in the end....

[ajmckay]

Hmmm I thought that a 2 months ago.. Amazed at a 4 day cycle, I added 2 snails... Then..... The ammonia wants sky high... The cycle took 4 weeks and 2 snails in the end....

 

Again - "cycled" only refers to the presence of the appropriate bacteria in the tank - it's instant in tanks where quality live rock is added. Once it's established you either slowly add livestock or you add bottled bacteria and add livestock quicker.

 

Did your test kits register positive nitrite & nitrate? Something doesn't fit because 2 snails doesn't produce enough of a bio-load to cause an ammonia spike in anything larger than a pico. I'm guessing you either didn't have nitrates (so the cycle technically wasn't functioning), you had ammonia even before adding the snails, or you added something else - like additional rock or you started feeding.

[lkoechle]

I would still add an ammonia source. Your "cycling" is relative to the ammonia present. For example, BRS (bulkReefSupply) spent a month ghost feeding a tank, not to make sure it was "cycled" but to make sure it wouldn't cycle again when they added 20 or so clownfish into it. If you have a cycle in 4 days, I would still add a source of ammonia because I personally don't believe the bacteria would be present in sufficient quantities to handle the bio-load of a fish.

[ajmckay]

I would still add an ammonia source. Your "cycling" is relative to the ammonia present. For example, BRS (bulkReefSupply) spent a month ghost feeding a tank, not to make sure it was "cycled" but to make sure it wouldn't cycle again when they added 20 or so clownfish into it. If you have a cycle in 4 days, I would still add a source of ammonia because I personally don't believe the bacteria would be present in sufficient quantities to handle the bio-load of a fish.

 

It's definitely not a bad idea - but at the same time I bet there's still a decent amount of dead stuff in the dry rock that is going to decompose over time (It's 20lbs and he said it was in someone else's tank before). Alternatively one could add bottled bacteria just before adding fish.

 

Either way you're right though - if you get to the point where there's no more ammonia production in the tank the bio-filter will start to die off which is very counterproductive if your goal is to add fish.

 

I suppose it's just a judgement call as to whether there's enough stuff on the rock by itself to support the initial addition of a fish. I would say that if it takes more than 2-3 weeks before ammonia and nitrite readings are 0 then that would be a great time to start adding fish. Because there is probably still more decomp that needs to occur but the bio-filter has matured to the point of being able to process it so it should be able to adapt to a new fish relatively quickly.

[gulfsurfer101]

You're numbers are fine, infact I've seen ammonia levels up to ten then bamm, instant bacterial bloom and clearing up within days. Once the bacteria start dying off and feeding itself, your fish will now provide a suitable food source and begin breaking that waste down. This is why you cycle your tank.

[Murphs_Reef]

Again - "cycled" only refers to the presence of the appropriate bacteria in the tank - it's instant in tanks where quality live rock is added. Once it's established you either slowly add livestock or you add bottled bacteria and add livestock quicker.

 

Did your test kits register positive nitrite & nitrate? Something doesn't fit because 2 snails doesn't produce enough of a bio-load to cause an ammonia spike in anything larger than a pico. I'm guessing you either didn't have nitrates (so the cycle technically wasn't functioning), you had ammonia even before adding the snails, or you added something else - like additional rock or you started feeding.

 

Yep I did indeed, more live rock along with snails, as said was amazed at short cycle so decided it was all good....then the tank caught a cold.... Yep I did N02/3 and was zeroed 2 and less than 0.25 3.

Had freshwater planted for years and understand water qual and indeed that cycling could be quick hence my early assumption?

That make sense?

[ajmckay]

Yep I did indeed, more live rock along with snails, as said was amazed at short cycle so decided it was all good....then the tank caught a cold.... Yep I did N02/3 and was zeroed 2 and less than 0.25 3.

Had freshwater planted for years and understand water qual and indeed that cycling could be quick hence my early assumption?

That make sense?

 

It was probably the additional live rock that caused the ammonia spike It seems that even "premium" or "fully cured" rock is often not without die-off. And based off your FW experience I think I can understand your initial assumption also - live rock is sort of unique though in that it's an essential part of the tank - but often has issues of it's own like some die-off or it wasn't fully cured in the first place. Nothing like that really exists in FW... Rocks are typically more dense (so less of an internal structure for organics to hide) and they don't come "pre-seeded" with bacteria like LR does, nor do you have to deal with things like die off and curing.

 

When I buy LR I usually give it some additional cure time in a bucket. It won't take long - let it sit in a bucket of SW with a powerhead and possibly a heater and in a day or two test for ammonia. If it's there you know it needs to cure a bit longer (either in the bucket or in your tank if there's no inhabitants yet). If there's no ammonia then it's probably safe to add to your tank.

[arashsheikhpoor]

Sorry to side track. I currently have a 1 year old 75 gal reef, Im going to be building a small 5 gallon nano for my gf which I will be taking care of. If I use sand, water and LR from my current set up will that essentially be an instant set up?

[lkoechle]

Sorry to side track. I currently have a 1 year old 75 gal reef, Im going to be building a small 5 gallon nano for my gf which I will be taking care of. If I use sand, water and LR from my current set up will that essentially be an instant set up?

Yep. Pretty much.

[arashsheikhpoor]

Great, that's what I was thinking too.

[gulfsurfer101]

This tank was set up using dry sand, rock from my dt out my 75g and NSW!

 

The cloudy shot!

 

The cuc handling business!

 

The livestock sits and waits as long as it takes. In this case 6hrs after starting up the tank, everything was added directly in to the tank.

 

Wouldn't hurt to wait another six hours next time or until it clears a lil better.

 

However 24hrs later, everything is fine and it's feeding time as usual.

 

[DefStatic]

I have never done this before what I am about to ask, but could I add some of the flake fish food I use in my freshwater tank into my saltwater to speed up the beginning of the cycle? I have heard of people doing that with various foods to speed up the cycle or just to test their cycle. Typically I have always just allowed a cycle to happen naturally.

[ajmckay]

I have never done this before what I am about to ask, but could I add some of the flake fish food I use in my freshwater tank into my saltwater to speed up the beginning of the cycle? I have heard of people doing that with various foods to speed up the cycle or just to test their cycle. Typically I have always just allowed a cycle to happen naturally.

 

Simple answer is yes you can, however, it's one of the least effective ways to accomplish what you want. Flake and pellet food don't break down that quickly and it adds more phosphates to the tank. If you have frozen meaty food (rinsed) that would probably work a little better.

 

IMO the best option by if you need it is dosing ammonia. It's quick, simple, measurable, and cheap.

 

Honestly though whether you need to add anything is completely dependent on how you started your tank. Don't assume you need to add anything to the tank until you understand what's going on and where/when you need to arrive at your end point.

 

For example the OP started with mostly dry rock and just a little live rock so he needed some source of ammonia in the water. If you started with all LR or even certain types of dry rock that are "dirty" you probably don't need to add anything unless you want to test the capacity of your biofilter as I explained above using pure ammonia. Alternatively you could add bottled bacteria (per instructions) just before adding fish and as long as you don't have an excess of dead organics that are decomposing rapidly you should be fine.

[DefStatic]

Thanks for the info. I used live rock and live sand.

I had my water tested (my saltwater test kit has not arrived yet) and I had 0 ammonia, a small amount of nitrites, and a small amount of nitrates. They just used test strips though. Saturday I am going to the LFS I got everything from and having them test the water.