So what do you guys do?

[iceshade]

Oh damn.. O.O

[ajmckay]

Woah there! Hahaha.. I can see where you're coming from I really can, but sounds like you're just encountering a bunch of rude people and getting all defensive.

 

Anyways - Don't go around spouting with absolute certainty that smaller tanks are easier and skimmers and sumps are for the birds. Nothing is that simple in this hobby. How is making statements like that any different than what people are saying to you? It's these conflicting attitudes and opinions that are a problem. It annoys me to no end when people seem all nice and willing to put in the effort to learn about something new but then they flip out the instant someone doesn't agree with what they think.

 

Like I said - just decide what you want to do in this hobby and stick to it. But don't get mad if someone disagrees with you - that just makes you sound like an asshole. Respect their opinions and carry on. Goes back to your original question - there are so many ways to keep a reef tank just research the biology and stick to your idea of what you want to accomplish.

[iceshade]

Like i said i am quick tempered and get defensive easily, i never said anything wrong about sumps and all that, i was talking about they are not as necessary for smaller tanks if i am not mistaken, and I am right when i say that whole old myth about small tanks are not for beginners or should not be used at all is a load of crap, I try to avoid at all costs telling people what size my tank is, because the second they say it's too small for even one fish, i get annoyed, very annoyed.

 

Over the years I have been discouraged multiple times from getting a SW set up, either by being told i need a tank 55 gallon and up, or by in general just don't do it, it's too hard, i can't help if i get influenced easy. After all these years i finally decided to do it no matter what, which is why i get so annoyed when people say this crap, because sure an opinion is an opinion, but it's still wrong, and a myth.

 

Also yeah they are all just rude people, 1 guy was selling live rock privately who i went to go see, and the second i mentioned my tank size he's like no bro you can't do that, you can't even put a shrimp in a tank that small, I tried to not get mad as long as possible but the guy wouldn't give up, so i didn't give up. and then this guy even more recent was even worse. and i see you're all shocked with the way i talked in my last post, you think thats bad, you should be there when it happens lmao, the owner of my favorite LFS had to send an employee home because he was extremely rude to me and I almost lost it on him.

 

Anyway I am very research oriented and don't go through with something unless i know I can do it for sure, I am just so excited after all these years of fiddle faddling back and forth about a SW set up, that I am finally doing it, which is why i get so defensive when people try to talk me out of it.

[ajmckay]

Well glad to hear you're following through with it this time.

 

Why don't you do this for your next steps...

 

Pick some tanks from the members area and read through them. Try to get an idea of what was done and when.

Put together a plan - be as specific as possible. Try to anticipate potential issues and unknowns.

Once you have a plan feel free to post any parts you're not sure about. You've already asked about some things like RO/DI and the amount of LR but you can post things like what you'll be using for flow/filtration, what fish, what food you'll use and how often will you feed. How long the lights will be on or off, etc... Plans for corals, fish, inverts, etc...

 

So tons of stuff to think about try to resist getting defensive, try to be open minded and as I mentioned if someone gives you a recommendation that you don't like or don't understand just ask for further clarification.

[iceshade]

Yeah with my research and forum browsing I now know about live rock, the fact that it's in the best interest of the fish and tank life to use rodi water, etc. I'm basically using what I already have for filtration which is a aquaclear 30, I know it's a bit small but I've read it can work.

 

The laughs I figure a 12 hour day/night cycle, except I usually with fresh water leave the blue leds on at night.do people do that with salt water set ups too?

 

For flow I'm starting with a aquatop 660, it was recommended to me by the manager at the main LFS I go too over the little maxi jet pumps. Also i dont like the heaters I've been using (marina) so for this fw to sw conversion I'm getting a 100w ebo jager. Thought about an aquatop heater cause it's 10$ less but not sure.

 

For my mixing bucket I'm getting something similar to the aquatop 660, except it will be a 125 lol, just a 15$ pump.

 

I'll be using my other marina heater for my mixing bucket although a bit scared that 100 watts will be a bit much for a 3 gallon bucket.

 

My longest reign of research was skimmers, and I've found lots of people don't use them on tanks my size. But I might add one down the Line. Not sure.

 

And for food not sure what I'm gonna do. Maybe the day I get my first fish I'll get a good brand of pellets? But I know I'll be buying mysis shrimp that's for sure.

 

In the end I've done my homework, because it's been years I've read and read, but never followed through. I almost used my 33 gallon tank a while back but as always got talked out of it. :-(

[righttirefire]

There are plenty of 20s being built. I'm following about 5 builds and I'm building my own 20... I'd recommend a 20 long. I'm in the process of changing my 20 tall to a 20 long. And prepping it (drilling) holes for a sump. Keep in mind you will want to upgrade/ try new things and think ahead at what you might want to try and buy accordingly. Like I wish I would have bought an aquaclear 110 but I got 50 after reading able everyone else using a 50 in their 20s.

[iceshade]

There are plenty of 20s being built. I'm following about 5 builds and I'm building my own 20... I'd recommend a 20 long. I'm in the process of changing my 20 tall to a 20 long. And prepping it (drilling) holes for a sump. Keep in mind you will want to upgrade/ try new things and think ahead at what you might want to try and buy accordingly. Like I wish I would have bought an aquaclear 110 but I got 50 after reading able everyone else using a 50 in their 20s.

yeah problem with the 20 long, is i have a 20 high, and the stand/light for the 20 high also lol, i am working with what i have for my first salt water tank. I really do like the 20 long though it's such a cool looking tank, more footprint length wise so adding live rock is a bit easier, and allows for nice placement, but like i said sadly i will work with what i have lol.

 

also my first upgrade once the tank is running is a better light, for the life of me i can't get a straight answer, and all LFS tell me to upgrade, but just to sell those expensive light. i swore that i've seen someone say that there are corals that don't need anything special for lighting and can thrive under any light, like mushrooms and zoanthids. right now i just have the marineland led strip light, says for fresh water on the box.

[ajmckay]

Hmmm, what were the dimensions of the 33g? I think you'll be really happy with the 20L. It's a great footprint for a reef. My first SW was a FW conversion 29g, so same footprint as the 20L just a bit taller.

 

100w heater is fine for a bucket - they're on a thermostat so it will just heat up quicker and then turn off

 

I agree on your skimmer rationale. I mean you may change it down the road but when I ran a cheap HOB skimmer I didn't think the results were all that fantastic. I have a sump now and have plenty of room for a skimmer so I chose to include one.

 

Pellet food is good nutritionally but many fish won't eat it right off the bat unless they've been pre-conditioned to it. Mysis are a pretty sure bet for new fish but the best bet is live brine shrimp. If you have any picky eaters buy some live brine if your LFS sells it. The fish will go nuts. I think the main thing is to feed a variety and feed often. Being that these are reef fish they're used to eating almost constantly. So where possible feed a few times per day and where possible include enriched live/frozen foods. My fish are pretty small so I thaw a cube, feed 1/2 cube in the evening, stick the rest in the fridge and feed the rest in the morning.

 

If I were starting a new SW tank 20L, I would add 1 ocellaris clownfish because they're cheap, colorful, hardy, have tons of personality, and they're synonomous with having a SW tank. Additionally I would add one small to med. goby/blenny/jawfish. Finally one of either a banggai cardinal, pygmy wrasse, yellowtail blue damsel or talbots damsel, gramma, strawberry pseudochromis/purple dottyback, or a firefish. I think that 3 fish would be plenty for that size tank, especially if you choose larger specimens. You'll have a fairly high bio-load especially if you feed well. So if you start seeing too much algae growth I would increase the water changes to more like 25% per week.

[iceshade]

Well like i said I can't get a 20L right now, cause I'd have to get or make a new stand, and probably a new light cause the 6 inch difference with my 24 inch light would look funny.

 

Also i still have the 33 gallon, with the stand, but the stand makes me nervous as hell, I know it held fish for well over 10 years but still lol. It's basically 4 legs, with a rim around the top that just barely holds the tank up, with nothing what so ever in the middle. Hard to explain. Here's the problem with that 33 gallon. Number 1, my uncle kept tons of different fish in there that were always dying (fw) his friend gave him a clown loach with ICH and neither of those bobos knew what to do about it, killed all of the fish. So my uncle just bought some random medicine and put it in the tank. Added more fish. All died. Repeat the process over and over for a few years.

 

Then he finally gave up on the tank, by then I was around 17 and I put in 2 piranhas which I fed live goldfish to, they thrived and grew up nicely until my uncle wanted the tank and made me bring the fish to the store.

 

But after that he did nothing with it just left it like that water and all. Finally years later when I started getting into keeping snakes I used it for one of my snakes. Fast forward to now it's been in the dirty basement for well over 5 years and it's filthy lol.

 

Also i like your idea on stocking. I was aiming for 4 fish. One would be a blenny or goby

 

1 more edit: my all time favorite sw fish is a panther grouper. I've seen 2 in my life in person. So majestic. My long term goal is to have a tank large enough for that plus various other large fish like a snow flake eel.

[righttirefire]

Panther groupers are gorgeous fish I wish I could rent o r u til it was 3" long and give it back. I bought the fluval reef marine led. 24" but after more research I realized I lose a huge amount of light due to the height of the water column. That's why I'm making the switch to the long. My stand is 30" wide already so all I'm doing is replacing the tank. I'll use the 24" light over the 30" tank. Because I keep a buffer zone against my glass do the light lose there is acceptable. I totally understand the not wanting to keep spending money. Set a comfortable budget. Personally 40 dollars a week is my limit I hit the atm on payday. And have a aquarium only piggy bank. If I want something more expensive I have to wait a couple weeks

[ajmckay]

Oops my bad I had it in my head that you had a 20L...

 

One piece of advice I think most people here would be willing to agree to is get the tank you want - a tank you'll be proud of. I mean if you're going to focus your budget on anything make it the tank. If you don't like the glass you won't like the overall tank. Seriously. It happens all the time. We start out with whatever tank we have have access to and end up upgrading tanks within a year once we realize that we don't like the tank.

 

And once you don't like the tank you stop doing maintenance, feeding becomes a chore, nuisance algae takes over and then you end up upgrading anyways - with additional expenses and work.

 

So if you like the 20H then by all means go with it. But if you like a different tank try to make that happen. A standard AGA (all glass aquarium - aqueon and the like) doesn't cost all that much and neither do stands in comparison to the cost of livestock.

 

Can you post a pic of the light you're planning to use?

[iceshade]

Hm not from my cell phone. It's this one

http://www.marineland.com/Products/aquarium-lighting/LED-Aquarium-Lighting/LED-Strip-Light.aspx

[ajmckay]

Hm not from my cell phone. It's this one

http://www.marineland.com/Products/aquarium-lighting/LED-Aquarium-Lighting/LED-Strip-Light.aspx

Nice light but probably won't grow coral much. If you do want to get corals sometime get some cheap mushrooms or something as a test.

 

Best of luck

[Azedenkae]

Haha mate you're getting VERY angry there. But like ajmackay, I totally get it. XD It is just annoying. Especially in your case, when you could have set up a saltwater fish tank but was talked out of it by those who didn't know.

 

I mean caution, patience and belief are all good things, but can all be taken to extremes... obviously that happens so often in this hobby.

 

But yeah, just gotta believe in what you do, but always respect others' beliefs though. If they don't want to do something with their tank, that's their choice. But at the same time, what you do with yours is their choice.

 

Anyways yeah. I guess in the end just do one thing: enjoy the hobby!

[porkchop-rob]

No need to get angry.

 

Just write up your plan...as detailed as possible and post it on here. You will get all the help you need....

[iceshade]

Oh I have my plan already. By this weekend the tank will be cycling. The whole thing about me getting mad was because of bad unwanted opinions. Mainly this guy saying I can't even put 1 fish in a 20 gallon. I've been following a thread on here with a guy doing a 5 gallon. He has a pistol/goby combo and 2 clowns in there plus corals. And it's going very well.

 

I admit there are still things that I can't get a straight answer for like should water changes be done while Cycling, and stuff like that lol

[porkchop-rob]

I admit there are still things that I can't get a straight answer for like should water changes be done while Cycling, and stuff like that lol

 

There is no one way magic bullet....this is very much a learn as you go, and learn what works for YOUR tank kind of hobby.

 

That said....I would lean towards NOT changing water during the cycle, simply because there is nothing in the water (fish or coral or whatever) to protect from the ammonia, nitrate, nitrite while the bacteria is colonizing.

[OpFor]

Its really nice to see someone else with almost the exact same problem I have. I love SW fish and coral reefs, but went with a 30gal. chiclid tank instead because EVERYONE I talked too said it was too hard to keep a SW tank.

 

Now, in the last three? months or so, of me having my two tanks, Im finding that yes, it is more difficult to keep. Especially with the variety of corals I have, but Im loving the challenge. Plus, alot of the fish I now have posses personalities almost exactly like my chiclids. Also, Im already looking forward to going bigger with a 54 corner tank.

 

Research, trial and error and being attentive to the critters you have/will get. Ie: if you get a fish and he doesnt eat flake food, try frozen or live.

 

Its been said, and Ive said it before, research, trial and error.

[iceshade]

Yeah thats what I was leaning towards based on what i've read.

 

my plan is as follows,

 

20H tank

aquaclear 30 for filtration with chemipure (elite or blue not sure) and possibly filter floss along with possibly a 3rd media

replacing my marina heater with an EBO Jager 100w, and using my marina heater for my mixing bucket

was going to buy the aquatop 660 for movement, but that might be too high? maybe 1 step down not sure

buying a little 15$ aquatop powerhead 125gph for my 5 gallon mixing bucket

starting with a 50 gallon bag of instant ocean

starting with instant ocean hydrometer (upgrading to refractometer later on)

starting with grocery store distilled water, for initial fill up, then going rodi water from LFS, one lfs sells it 0.50$ a gallon, while the other gives it away for free.

 

starting with my marineland led strip light and MIGHT try a zoanthid once i know clean up crew and first fish are doing ok, but might wait till i upgrade my lighting

 

using 20 pound bag of ocean direct OOLITE live sand

Fiji live rock, all live, no dead, BUT not doing 20 pounds, after extensive reading and talking to 5 different LFS I have figured out that depending on the rock 20 pounds isn't needed, after looking at the fiji totoka rock, i figure 10 pounds will fill up my tank nicely as i want my fish to have room to swim.

 

clean up crew: confused, I see tons of people get crabs, but then others say not to cause they kill snails, and i feel snails such as nassarius, astrea, cerith, etc, are valuable to the crew so i possibly will do snail only, possibly with a peppermint shrimp because Aptasia scares me, almost as much as waking up to see a mantis shrimp in my tank.. although i love blue, and red legged hermits, and emerald crabs.

 

and lastly fish, so how many panther groupers and picasso triggers can i fit in my 20 gallon? just kidding, I have a lot of desired fish and I will choose wisely, I am going by number 1, what is recommended for "nano" tanks, and number 2, what is recommended for tanks a bit bigger based on live aquaria, I say that because a 6 line wrasse is said to be good for 30 gallon, yet i have counted around 25 people in the last few weeks across 3 forums that have successfully kept them in a 20 gallon, high or long. BUT i see that they are very hyper swimmers, so i might stick to other species.

 

I have also seen people house longnose hawkfish in 20 gallons, which is one of my favorites, but then i figure they can get a bit bigger than the average fish i will be putting in, so this is what i will be choosing from and contrary to what people say about 2 or 3 fish in a tank this size, i am aiming for 4 or 5 for diversity, i know it's not the best idea but i figure i see a 10 gallon with 2-3 fish, heck a 5 gallon with 2 fish, so i should be able to house 4 or 5 in my tank without issues, and remember I am Vigilant about water testing and water changes.

 

Clown fish (occy, standard or black and white, a lfs has every kind of occy possible for amazing prices)

a goby or blenny (i love the yellow, and green clown goby, but i have read stories about them dissapearing the moment they are put in the tank, so i might choose a bicolor blenny.

 

bicolor dottyback or royal gramma (i lost count on how many of these i've seen in a 20 gallon, I was told the dotty backs are "aggressive" and not to bother with one, but everything i want is listed as "semi aggressive" lol

 

Yellowtail damsel (the more peaceful damsel according to research, regardless of 1 guy saying it will murder my whole tank at a lfs)

 

I might stop at 4, probably, i don't really see anything i'd want, and notice you don't see firefish on my list, sure they are nice, and sure i can get the purple one for a great price, but i see everyone with them, and want to have a bit more diversity.

[righttirefire]

Just my 2 cents but isn't the $0.50 cent a gallon for Rodi cheaper than the the $0.89 for grocery store distilled? I buy all my saltwater pre-mixed from my LFS. Supports them, and cheaper than distilled plus salt. Food for thought.

[iceshade]

Yeah I know lol, thing is I need to buy some of those 5 gallon container to transport the water In, which 4 of those cost double what it does to buy 20 gallons worth of distilled water from the grocery store.

[ETCs_Lady]

When you're getting ready to set up a tank on the smaller side, and you're constantly being told to get a bigger tank, yours is too small, blah blah..

 

 

 

 

I started my SW adventure with a 60 gallon cube. It was awesome and I did great with it! I then proceeded to get a BC29 to dedicate to BTAs and my clowns. I loved it SO much I DOWNSIZED the 60 to another BC29. I certainly got looks for that.

 

But, it didn't matter... it was what I wanted and I am SO much happier now! No more need to always get the step stool out!

[righttirefire]

Ice, this is the link to my build 20 tall, http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/357755-20h-starter/I used 15 lbs sand and 24# live rock, but that's all in the first post. I love my yellow clown goby. It's out and visible, not overly active but visible, the girlfriend named it 'dingus' it's very entertaining. My clean up crew is all snail. 2 astrea, 1 cerith, 1 nassarius, 1 "small" turbo snail. There are a couple hitchhiker micro stars, and possible a little brittle star hitchhiker, no sighting within the last month.

[iceshade]

Lol I love your thread I've read it. Anymore plans past the ycg? I love the clown gobies but I'm really looking at tail spot and bicolor blennies mainly.

[righttirefire]

Currently saving up to transfer into my 20 long, turning the 20 tall into a sump refugium. Mostly grow out, I got some mushrooms I really like waiting for them to grow out and frag. Zoas are in the same boat. Want some pulsing xenias? I'm getting ready to frag mine. Still looking for that perfect pair of clowns, but the anemome is a huge temptation right now. I'm really holding off until after the tank swap.