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So what do you guys do?


iceshade

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When you're getting ready to set up a tank on the smaller side, and you're constantly being told to get a bigger tank, yours is too small, blah blah..

 

I'm setting up my first sw tank this week, 20 gallon fowlr. 3-5 fish maximum because yes I've seen it done, and I've seen it work as a first time sw tank also. Heck if this bone head on youtube can have a snowflake eel and a lionfish in a 20 gallon thrive for a year. I think I'm good with my 20 with a clown, goby, chromis, etc..

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Sounds like most of them are in the old school thought of needing at least a 40 due to parameters changing too quickly (before everyone used ATO's).

 

20 gallons is good, hell I got a 10g as my first one and other than algae, its been doing fine so far. Just remember that ATO, weekly water changes and possibly a skimmer too for anything over a 10g and you are set!

 

Heck, I am thinking of going backwards to el cheapo mode and running a 20L so I can have more fish and more room for corals instead of an AIO tank haha

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Yep, I've heard all the bitching. I have a 16 gal IM Nuvo. I have an ATO, Kessil 360WE, InTank Media Baskets, an MP10, and I do weekly water changes...my tank looks amazing! I did a mixed reef and everything is healthy and open. I didn't go with a skimmer, because I don't need it. If you keep things consistent, have good equipment, and are diligent about your care, your tank will do great.

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Same here! Was very discouraging to be given wrong info, but luckily I just followed what I researched rather than opinions, like you guys. And it turned out great. :) Loving my aquarium.

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Come up with a plan of what you want. Do all your research first that way opinions will not make you deviate from your plans. Then build your reef. I started with a 10 gal. tank seven months a go best thing I did before I went to a 40b learned a lot with that 10 gal. tank.

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righttirefire

I also sent plenty of time researching. And continue to read and research. I have a 20tall. Simple. 100w heater hydor 240 power head and an aquaclear 50 running chaeto and a "small" bio bag for mechanical filtration and fluval marine reef led. In hind sight. I would have used an ac110. And in currently finalizing plans to move into a 20 long for better lighting out of my led. I'll also mod my tall into a sump. So I'll have the 40 gallons of water but only display 20 gallons. Plan plan plan. And keep in mind you'll want to stay flexible because you will want modify things. Patience

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Thanks guys very encouraging, :-) i'd sure love a 40 breeder, but money doesn't allow for it right now. even my stocking plans seem fine when i read on sites and forums, and at multiple fish shops they disagree with everything, i mention yellow tail damsel and the guy yells out no! no damsels! i was like but they are more peaceful than the rest, he says no! they are all the same! i was like -_-

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Thanks guys very encouraging, :-) i'd sure love a 40 breeder, but money doesn't allow for it right now. even my stocking plans seem fine when i read on sites and forums, and at multiple fish shops they disagree with everything, i mention yellow tail damsel and the guy yells out no! no damsels! i was like but they are more peaceful than the rest, he says no! they are all the same! i was like -_-

Lol I hate when that happens.

 

Even if they are the most aggressive fish ever, that shouldn't mean they can't be stocked. After all, everyone has their own preferences.

 

Honestly out hobby is still in its infancy, and information is changing all the time. It was only last year when it was a requirement to wait six months before stocking, but now with better understanding, a tank can go through the initial cycle in a matter of a few weeks, or even much less.

 

Fish stocking guidelines are also now more reasonable, partly thanks to the advent of really good products as well.

 

Things are always changing. In the end one's tank is one's own responsibility, and one should just take charge of it how one wants it to be.

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righttirefire

I'm currently stocked with a blue/green chromis, damsel. First fish in my tank. A week later I added a yellow clown goby, a very small fish in comparison. No agression/territory issues. And a few weeks after that I added a diamond goby. All live in total harmony. That's 3 fish in a 20 without any issues. The chromis might get "rehomed" for a small pair of true percula clowns

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Wow nice, I love clowns but I'm stuck on if I should get 1, or 2. Because I really want a royal gramma also, and the black occelaris is amazing. So confusing lol.

 

Also i love gobys and blennys

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righttirefire

Personally I struggle with clowns because I want the "prefect" coloration and haven't found out yet. I enjoy the mushrooms and zoas

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I have 3 fish in a Biocube 14g and everyone is doing fine. My tanks's 1 year aniversary was this week.

Hell, there are people on this site with 8 gallon tanks that have been up and running for years!

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When you're getting ready to set up a tank on the smaller side, and you're constantly being told to get a bigger tank, yours is too small, blah blah..

 

"The 90's called, they want their rule of thumb back. "

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We had a old 33 gallon years ago which was my uncles and used for FW. I wanted to use it for SW so i asked online what I could put in it. And one guy was like, a shrimp..

 

I see tons of people with 2 fish in a 10 gallon, even 3. And 4 or 5 fish in a 20 gallon now which is like what I'm planning. All I know is my girlfriends favorite salt water fish is the bicolor dottyback, and by design also the royal gramma because they look alike for the most part lol.

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I heard all that too as they tried to make me go for a 60 gal! but i stuck to my initial idea and with some great support and help from these forums I'm into my second week of tankdom. (I did cheat slightly as the tank I bought was already cycled and established and the corals were given another 2 weeks before being moved into my house.

 

Make sure you get a good LFS, that really helped me too, and trust em looks aren't everything when judging the quality of the information from an LFS as I found out the hard way after refusing the 60 gal option (note this same store was selling a a pair of clowns in an IQ5 when you went into the store).

 

I'd be a bit scared of a lion fish or moray in a 20 gal unless it had somewhere to go to when it got bigger, but some of the fish you are looking at sound great they are on most of the "start up" lists.

 

Oh and don't forget to look into corals I really didn't want any... but the rock and the corals have proven more interesting then the clownfish :)

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Lol i'm always looking at corals but until I upgrade my lighting I'm not sure what I can do. I have a standard marineland led strip light, and not long ago someone said with this light I can get basics like mushrooms and zoas. But other people say no even the most basic coral needs something like a t5 Ho or some other type of fancy lighting. I'm so confused. Because I'd love to get some zoanthids and mushrooms. Even just frags cause I heard they spread and grow.

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porkchop-rob

IMHO....It is better for an aquarist to begin with a nano tank. Something 5-10 gallons.

 

It causes you to be invested, pay attention, and research. You do not have enough water volume to "compensate" for errors or neglect. It teaches good, consistent, attentive husbandry.

 

You could probably keep mushrooms and maybe some zoas with the lighting you have, but I would wait.

 

Once the tank is established and a couple months have gone by (and the wallet has recovered) you can look at some lighting options. Used halides, used led lights, even used T5 fixtures can be found for a good discount, and over a 20gallon, one (appropriate sized) light fixture should be fine. I mean one AI sol or radion or a couple par 38 bulbs....or even a 150 watt halide would be good. Once you get a good light, your confidence will come up, and you will be able to keep almost any coral you want. Only limited by size and stability of parameters.

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Looking at what other people can do also helps. Especially in smaller tanks. My favorite inspiration was El Fab's 3-gallon tank on YouTube. He ran it for 3 years. I figured maybe I could do something like that, too. Maybe think of this hobby as having many alternative routes but one goal, as long as the basic principles apply. And accept the limitations of your system. I think that at some point, it'll tell you when you've pushed it too far. Then upgrade if you want. I'd like to get my 35-gallon AIO up and running but I only have the tank, return pump and powerhead. Can't afford good lights for now so I just have to be happy with my current 8-gallon.

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I have a 10 gal tank with 2 fish and plenty of inverts and coral all doing fine. The tank is a little over a year old. You will definitely end up getting corals btw. I started off thinking just live rock and a fish or two but no. I wanted to try setup a saltwater aquarium the cheapest way I could. I had zoanthids, a hammer, and a candycane coral under $20 led lights for about 6 months and they were perfectly healthy! They didn't really grow but they lived no prob. Now I have an ocean revive t247 and lots of corals, I plan on getting a bigger tank soon.

I used a hang on the back filter, cheap LEDs, a cheap heater, and that's about it. No ATO, no skimmer, no dosing and I had healthy fish and corals. Eventually I uprgraded everything so it would have been better to save up and just get the good stuff in the first place!

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Lol I hate when that happens.

 

Even if they are the most aggressive fish ever, that shouldn't mean they can't be stocked. After all, everyone has their own preferences.

 

Honestly out hobby is still in its infancy, and information is changing all the time. It was only last year when it was a requirement to wait six months before stocking, but now with better understanding, a tank can go through the initial cycle in a matter of a few weeks, or even much less.

 

Fish stocking guidelines are also now more reasonable, partly thanks to the advent of really good products as well.

 

Things are always changing. In the end one's tank is one's own responsibility, and one should just take charge of it how one wants it to be.

 

Hehe I'm not sure where you're getting the info but I'm pretty sure the 6 month "requirement" has never existed - at least not among the reasonably well informed.

 

OP, I'm not exactly sure what your question is though, is it "what do you do when people tell you your plans won't work" ?

 

Yes there are plenty of people that are like that - who think that your tank should follow the same "method" that they used etc... People will rattle off stuff all day long without truly understanding the biology of it all or not understanding what YOUR goals and objectives are for the hobby (because that's important also). But at the same time there are experienced hobbyists who are just giving you the best information they know - and what they believe will work for you given the small amount of information you can give them in a post on a reef forum.

 

Now on the other hand there are also plenty people who "push the envelope" as compared to the more traditional ways of doing things and claim to have the worlds healthiest nano tank (with a tang) on a $50 budget - oh yeah and because they did it that means you can (and should) too. Stick it to all those old timers and their "rules of thumb"!!

 

IMO take the middle ground. Don't dismiss time tested and conservative methods completely. Try to understand them and then adapt them to your wants for your tank. The rules of thumb exist because as hobbyists we're impacting the environment and we all want to make sure it's done responsibly. How do you tell someone who is starting their first saltwater tank how much LR to get for their 20g ? Most people start out with what is suggested to them and later on they decide that they want more or less. Very few beginner hobbyists know exactly what they want down to the tiny details. So if someone were to tell me to get a bigger tank or use skimmer X instead of Y I simply push back and ask politely for an explanation why. Give me some information - based on biological principles - why I should get a bigger tank or a different skimmer (or no skimmer). If they actually have some good information then that means you've learned something. If they spout off more opinion or can't support their advice then you've again learned something and can carry on. Note the LR example is an over simplification. Lets say you buy a fish from an LFS that keeps their tank S.G. at 1.018... How long should acclimation take before you put it in your tank at 1.025? Someone has done this and has come to the conclusion that S.G. shouldn't be increased more than .003 in 24 hours (just an example). Do you take that advice or do you try to do it in an hour per the acclimation method you used with your last fish that is still alive (or Post X who gives you a very nice post about the method he has had 100% success with in his own tank)?

 

Try not to mis-use the word "thrive". It truly is a bit of a misnomer in the hobby. How can you take an animal from it's natural environment, stick it in a glass box and give it your best shot at providing then say it's "thriving". Even if you've seen it "done" (Oh! This youtube video shows 10 chromis in a 10g! and it looks so pretty!) that doesn't mean you can (or should) do it. There are so many variables in this hobby it boggles the mind. Because someones lionfish didn't eat their clownfish doesn't mean that you will experience the same results. If thriving is defined as "my fish swim good, they look good, and they eat enough" then yes by all means they are thriving. But the definition of thriving as I understand it is a little more than that - it's a kind of growth and excellence that goes beyond what you can see visually - it would be like perfectly recreating nature is probably the best way to say it. Nature may not be viewed as thriving, but when left alone it's amazing how well nature provides for itself.

 

So my advice is to learn what you want to accomplish in the hobby, think it through as best you can, and then stick to it. Don't ask for advice where you don't need it or aren't prepared to hear other peoples opinions. Try to do things the best way you know how and learn as much as you can about the biology first. It's really easy to get caught up in the equipment aspect of the hobby (actually I love the equipment aspect a lot!) but the reality is that beyond the essential equipment (tank, light, heat, flow) you don't really NEED anything else to be a successful hobbyist. That doesn't mean you should abandon equipment - just that you should use modern equipment to supplement and enhance what you know about the biological principles at work.

 

For example take bacteria in a bottle starters. Only recently have companies been able to preserve and distribute large enough quantities of the appropriate bacteria to populate a brand new tank with the bacteria it needs to stock almost instantly. The biological principles at work (cell reproduction, decomposition, ammonification & nitrification, etc...) still need to be understood to use the product to it's maximum potential but it allows us hobbyists to do great things much quicker or we could still screw things up massively even if we use the bacterial starter (like we add it too early, don't stock appropriately, or don't maintain the proper conditions for the starter to work).

 

Hopefully this helps.

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Hehe I'm not sure where you're getting the info but I'm pretty sure the 6 month "requirement" has never existed - at least not among the reasonably well informed.

 

 

Oh not everyone says that, but a lot of people do. XD It's crazy really. The worse part is when people take it as some sort of magical, miracle amount of time needed. I have had people ring up and ask 'I had water in my aquarium for six months now, am I ready for live rock?' which is both hilarious and sad at the same time (I work at a LFS, I hear all sorts of things). Problem is yes, once one is informed, then one realizes it is about how one cycles, not a specific timeframe or goal or whatever. But unfortunately either those who did this longgg ago and are stubborn, or newbies tend to fall into the trap. :/

 

Even now there are those who come ask on forums, and immediately get smacked in a face with a 'you have to wait 2 months/6 weeks/whatever the number is now' and they go off and do just that, without actually taking the necessary steps to cycle a tank. >_>

 

It's getting better nowadays, and it's not like 'six months' anymore, but still. :(

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Wow guys thanks for the great words. I can't wait to see the guy again who said no stay away from yellow tail damsels, I'm gonna tell him that's opinion, not fact.

 

Everywhere I've read they say if you want a calmer damsel get the yellow tail.

 

My future stocking plans are getting tricky now though for this 20 gallon. I kind of go by what other people do. I obviously won't put a tang, trigger, grouper (oh panther grouper how I want thee..) but there are species that I'm dying to stock, that live aquaria says 30 gallons for. Yet I see tons of people online with them in smaller than 30 gallon. Like the bicolor dottyback, or royal gramma. Like the longnose hawkfish (heard it eats cleanup crews, bad) also the purple pseudo, plus various gobys and blennys (leaning toward bicolor blenny)

 

I would be happy with these 4 fish in my tank, bicolor dotty back, bicolor blenny, yellow tail damsel, and one of the clowns.

 

But who knows that can change 50 times by the time my tank is ready for the first fish.

 

And last thing. This whole thing about "add this fish last cause it's territorial" I'm so sick of seeing that cause its said for almost all fish I want.. so how then do you decide which to add and when? Lol

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Wow guys thanks for the great words. I can't wait to see the guy again who said no stay away from yellow tail damsels, I'm gonna tell him that's opinion, not fact.

 

Everywhere I've read they say if you want a calmer damsel get the yellow tail.

 

My future stocking plans are getting tricky now though for this 20 gallon. I kind of go by what other people do. I obviously won't put a tang, trigger, grouper (oh panther grouper how I want thee..) but there are species that I'm dying to stock, that live aquaria says 30 gallons for. Yet I see tons of people online with them in smaller than 30 gallon. Like the bicolor dottyback, or royal gramma. Like the longnose hawkfish (heard it eats cleanup crews, bad) also the purple pseudo, plus various gobys and blennys (leaning toward bicolor blenny)

 

I would be happy with these 4 fish in my tank, bicolor dotty back, bicolor blenny, yellow tail damsel, and one of the clowns.

 

But who knows that can change 50 times by the time my tank is ready for the first fish.

 

And last thing. This whole thing about "add this fish last cause it's territorial" I'm so sick of seeing that cause its said for almost all fish I want.. so how then do you decide which to add and when? Lol

 

Mhm treat Liveaquaria more like a guide than anything mate, a lot of their information listed is wrong. For example, most Clowns they have listed as needing 20-30 gallons, but they don't need that much. When I was reading through papers on Clownfish and all that, the scientists were keeping pairs (or even trios) in tanks <20 gallons, with ethical approval, so yeah. If they can keep a pair in less than 20 gallons, I'm pretty sure 'one in 20-30 gallons minimum' as stated by Liveaquaria is wrong. :)

 

But you know that from all the research you did anyways.

 

The best way to deal with multiple territorial fish - or actually whatever stock, is to add as many of them as possible at once. Once you have cycled your aquarium properly, then you can do that easily. I stocked mine with fish and corals all on the same day, 10 days after setting the aquarium up. :) It's all about doing things properly.

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Wow good stuff I'll keep that in mind. Thanks. But I need to talk about this again as I am very angry right now. So I answered an ad on kijiji (like Craigslist) for some stuff. And told the guy I had a 20 gallon....

 

His words copied and pasted "lol what r u gonna put in there? There is not a single fish that can fit in a tank that small"

 

I swear I almost broke my phone.. I blasted him to smithereens, told him 10 years ago when I started fresh water when I ACTUALLY wanted salt water, I was constantly talked out of getting salt water by people like him, and back then I had a 33 gallon with the stand and all, and on forums and at pet stores it was the same thing. "33 gallon? Uh maybe you can put 1 fish in there?

 

I just can't deal with it, I am very large and strong and have a very bad temper, the next time I'm at a LFS and someone says 20 is too small I'm gonna nail them in the face. Not even joking.

 

These are just elitists that are proud of their big tanks and live in the last with this myth about "smaller tanks are harder" well I've done my homework buddy boy, and small tanks are easier. No skimmer? No problem. Sump? Optional.

 

And the reason I don't set up a bigger tank right now is money, sure. But it's not even the tank size. I can gran a 40 breeder or 55 gallon with glass top for nothing. It's having to buy or make a new stand, more live rock, more sand. And most of all. A bigger light..

 

Anyway I'm just enraged and sick and tired of people talking out of their ass, when they don't know what they are talking about. Stuff like no fish can fit in anything under 30 gallon, or smaller tanks are "harder"? Give me a break..

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