Raising CA but not Alk (Updated with new Ca/Mag/Alk readings)

[VW_TDI_02]

I recently started dosing kalk in my ato and so far it has raised my alk to a good level (10.5) but not much for my Ca. I know people are going to say that water changes are enough but clearly they aren't. I'm doing 5 gallon water changes every week using Instant Ocean salt (regular, not reef crystals) and I'm stuck around 300. I have 4 LPS frags, 1 larger LPS hammer colony, and then just zoas and softies (kenya and pulsing xenia). I'm hoping to raise my Ca up to 400 or so but I'm not sure how to do it. Right now I can't afford to get a dosing pump and I would rather not have to dose the Ca portion of 2 part every day. Is there another way to go about doing this?

[Lawnman]

Most important was is your mag at?

[VW_TDI_02]

Great question. No idea though. haha.

[Chadf]

Great question. No idea though. haha.

Well no sense trying to change ca/kh levels if you don't even know the mg.

[VW_TDI_02]

Well no sense trying to change ca/kh levels if you don't even know the mg.

So is there anything that I can do before I get a magnesium test kit?

[Chadf]

So is there anything that I can do before I get a magnesium test kit?

 

Stop dosing kalk, switch to reef crystals, do a nice wc.

[Chadf]

Before anything read this, all of it. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/

[VW_TDI_02]

Stop dosing kalk, switch to reef crystals, do a nice wc.

I still have half a bucket of instant ocean and have heard enough bad things about reef crystals that I'll have to pass on them. Regardless, instant ocean should mix to 400 and I've never seen it anywhere near that high. I'll be doing my water change this Sunday and I'll check the fresh batch and see what I get.

Before anything read this, all of it. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/

Already did.

[blasterman]

Kalk (besides it's necessity for topofffs) is useful for helping dKH and elevating pH in smaller tanks that is otherwise impossible to keep elevated. Spiking a bit of Kalk in my smaller tanks before bedtime has made the biggest single improvement in coral health I've yet tried. Kalk helps a smaller tank emulate the stable pH and buffering of much larger ones. Want to stop your zoas from melting and staying closed? Try Kalk...

 

Kalk *is not* a way to introduce calcium. It produces a bit in the water column when it reacts with hydrogen and organic rich tank water, but hardly enough. You'll send pH through the roof and likely precipitate out before your calcium moves.

 

Calcium at 300 is a problem. A water change should correct this without having to worry about mag levels. FYI - The calcium component of two parts is calcium chloride (sidewalk de-icer) in water while the buffer is baking soda in water.

[VW_TDI_02]

Kalk (besides it's necessity for topofffs) is useful for helping dKH and elevating pH in smaller tanks that is otherwise impossible to keep elevated. Spiking a bit of Kalk in my smaller tanks before bedtime has made the biggest single improvement in coral health I've yet tried. Kalk makes a smaller tank emulate the stable pH and buffering of much larger ones.

 

Kalk *is not* a way to introduce calcium. It produces a bit in the water column when it reacts with hydrogen and organic rich tank water, but hardly enough. You'll send pH through the roof and likely precipitate out before your calcium moves.

 

Calcium at 300 is a problem. A water change should correct this. The calcium component of two parts is calcium chloride (sidewalk de-icer) in water while the buffer is baking soda in water.

I've read that about kalk and that's why I only dose 1 tsp per gallon in my ato. When I do my water change, I'm going to test before and after. So far it's only changes my reading about 20 ppm with a 5 gallon water change. Display tank holds 17 gallons of water and the sump holds about 15 so that ends up being a hair over 15%.

[Chadf]

I've read that about kalk and that's why I only dose 1 tsp per gallon in my ato. When I do my water change, I'm going to test before and after. So far it's only changes my reading about 20 ppm with a 5 gallon water change. Display tank holds 17 gallons of water and the sump holds about 15 so that ends up being a hair over 15%.

Doing a 15% wc starting with 300ppm and using fresh 400ppm water would result in a 15ppm increase. You need to dose ca, change salt, or do much larger wc's.

[SchnauzerFace]

For supplementing Ca, I love this: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/500-ml-red-sea-reef-foundation-a-ca-sr.html

 

But don't add anything until you get a Mg test kit!

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/red-sea-magnesium-pro-test-kit.html

 

If your Mg is too low, here you go:

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/red-sea-reef-foundation-c-mg-500ml.html

 

On a nano, though, a good WC should doing more than it seems to be.. Maybe you need a new Ca test kit? EDIT: Reread your tank size. Need bigger WC, imo.

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/red-sea-calcium-pro-test-kit.html

 

(No, I don't work for Red Sea)

[VW_TDI_02]

Doing a 15% wc starting with 300ppm and using fresh 400ppm water would result in a 15ppm increase. You need to dose ca, change salt, or do much larger wc's.

When you say dosing calc do you mean dosing calcium chloride every other day or is there another way to dose it?

For supplementing Ca, I love this: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/500-ml-red-sea-reef-foundation-a-ca-sr.html

 

But don't add anything until you get a Mg test kit!

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/red-sea-magnesium-pro-test-kit.html

 

If your Mg is too low, here you go:

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/red-sea-reef-foundation-c-mg-500ml.html

 

On a nano, though, a good WC should doing more than it seems to be.. Maybe you need a new Ca test kit? EDIT: Reread your tank size. Need bigger WC, imo.

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/red-sea-calcium-pro-test-kit.html

 

(No, I don't work for Red Sea)

I think I may just double the size of my water change and see how it goes from there. Should be able to pick up a magnesium test kit soonish. Will probably pick up the Red Sea reef test kit that comes with alkalinity, ca, and mag for $45.

[afyounie]

Why do you think alk at 10.5 is a good level? Probably the reason your Ca has dropped so much is the excessive increase in alk. That and probably low Mg levels. I would say changing to a good reef salt would be the best thing to do. Something with good Mg, Alk, and Ca levels. And double check the parameters on your change water. Maybe it's not what you think. I definitely would stop with the kalk though and slowly bring the alk back down and the calcium back up or risk killing all your corals. Which I'm not sure how you haven't with such a high alk and low calcium. My corals try to commit seppuku if my alk goes over 9dKH and Ca goes below 400.

[VW_TDI_02]

Why do you think alk at 10.5 is a good level? Probably the reason your Ca has dropped so much is the excessive increase in alk. That and probably low Mg levels. I would say changing to a good reef salt would be the best thing to do. Something with good Mg, Alk, and Ca levels. And double check the parameters on your change water. Maybe it's not what you think. I definitely would stop with the kalk though and slowly bring the alk back down and the calcium back up or risk killing all your corals. Which I'm not sure how you haven't with such a high alk and low calcium. My corals try to commit seppuku if my alk goes over 9dKH and Ca goes below 400.

Ca has always been around 300 even before I started dosing kalk. Everywhere I've been looking, alk should be between 9-11. So far my corals have been doing just fine and are growing. I know my acan lord has about 6 little spuds growing from the base that are forming into new heads. I do think I'm going to increase the size of my water changes and I will test the water again before and after it.

Before Kalk:

Ca ~300

Alk ~8.5-9

pH 8.2

After Kalk:

Ca ~300-320

Alk 10.5

pH 8.2

[ndrobey]

I think you need a new test kit. The results you are getting don't seem right.

[VW_TDI_02]

I think you need a new test kit. The results you are getting don't seem right.

Why do you say that? I'm dosing very little kalk (1 teaspoon per gallon of top off). Ca was nudged up a little while alk went up 1.5-2. Is that normal when using kalk?

[VW_TDI_02]

Well I just ordered the Red Sea Foundations kit which includes Ca, Alk, and Magnesium test kits. Should be here Monday.

[VW_TDI_02]

Water change is done. Did a 14 gallon water change and it raised my Ca to 340 and lowered my Kh to 10.5. I also tested the new water and got the following results:

 

Before 14g Water Change:

Ca: 320

Alk: 11

 

After 14g Water Change:

Ca: 340

Alk: 10.5

 

Newly Mixed Water:

Ca: 350

Alk: 10

[afyounie]

Why do you say that? I'm dosing very little kalk (1 teaspoon per gallon of top off). Ca was nudged up a little while alk went up 1.5-2. Is that normal when using kalk?

 

Yeah, I agree that they don't sound right either. Alk at 10.5, but ph at 8.2? Kalk raises ph, so I would expect your ph to be higher than 8.2.

 

 

Ca has always been around 300 even before I started dosing kalk. Everywhere I've been looking, alk should be between 9-11. So far my corals have been doing just fine and are growing. I know my acan lord has about 6 little spuds growing from the base that are forming into new heads. I do think I'm going to increase the size of my water changes and I will test the water again before and after it.

Before Kalk:

Ca ~300

Alk ~8.5-9

pH 8.2

After Kalk:

Ca ~300-320

Alk 10.5

pH 8.2

 

If everywhere you look it says alk should be 9-11, then stop looking at those places. Alk should be 7-11 dKH. NSW is 7-8dKH with Ca at about 420ppm. Its hard to keep these levels in a nutrient rich tank which is why we keep it higher at about 8.5 ish. In low nutrient tanks, going higher than NSW levels kills the corals. Ca levels below 380ppm are dangerously low too. So I think you really have a bad test kit like ndrobey says. I don't think your corals could be alive with the levels you are testing, unless your corals are some insane super breed.

Water change is done. Did a 14 gallon water change and it raised my Ca to 340 and lowered my Kh to 10.5. I also tested the new water and got the following results:

 

Before 14g Water Change:

Ca: 320

Alk: 11

 

After 14g Water Change:

Ca: 340

Alk: 10.5

 

Newly Mixed Water:

Ca: 350

Alk: 10

 

You need some better salt. That's some terrible salt if your Ca is really 350ppm.

[VW_TDI_02]

 

Yeah, I agree that they don't sound right either. Alk at 10.5, but ph at 8.2? Kalk raises ph, so I would expect your ph to be higher than 8.2.

 

 

 

If everywhere you look it says alk should be 9-11, then stop looking at those places. Alk should be 7-11 dKH. NSW is 7-8dKH with Ca at about 420ppm. Its hard to keep these levels in a nutrient rich tank which is why we keep it higher at about 8.5 ish. In low nutrient tanks, going higher than NSW levels kills the corals. Ca levels below 380ppm are dangerously low too. So I think you really have a bad test kit like ndrobey says. I don't think your corals could be alive with the levels you are testing, unless your corals are some insane super breed.

 

You need some better salt. That's some terrible salt if your Ca is really 350ppm.

I just tested the pH again and I ended up getting between 8.2 and 8.4. Color was closer to 8.2 though.

 

Sorry about that. You're right, alk should be 7-11. Mis-typed it.

 

Not really sure how I can test if a test kit is bad or not unless I have some sort of reference solution. I even tested the water after the water change twice and got the same Ca level. I just looked at my Amazon order and it says that the Red Sea kit should be here on Tuesday no later than 8:00 PM.

 

Once I finish off this bucket, I'm going to switch to Red Sea Coral Pro. I've heard a lot of good things about it. A bit more expensive but worth it from what I've seen.

 

There was only about a gallon of limewater left in the ATO (5 gallon jug) so I'm just filling it up with pure RODI water without adding any additional Kalk. Figured this way it should ease the pH/alk down slowly.

[afyounie]

I just tested the pH again and I ended up getting between 8.2 and 8.4. Color was closer to 8.2 though.

 

Sorry about that. You're right, alk should be 7-11. Mis-typed it.

 

Not really sure how I can test if a test kit is bad or not unless I have some sort of reference solution. I even tested the water after the water change twice and got the same Ca level. I just looked at my Amazon order and it says that the Red Sea kit should be here on Tuesday no later than 8:00 PM.

 

Once I finish off this bucket, I'm going to switch to Red Sea Coral Pro. I've heard a lot of good things about it. A bit more expensive but worth it from what I've seen.

 

There was only about a gallon of limewater left in the ATO (5 gallon jug) so I'm just filling it up with pure RODI water without adding any additional Kalk. Figured this way it should ease the pH/alk down slowly.

 

I use the Red Sea test kits and Red Sea Coral Pro salt. The test kits are great. Definitely give more accurate results than I got with my API kit. As for their salt, definitely a good salt. High alk, Ca, and Mg levels. I used to use Brightwells Neomarine and that kept my levels closer to NSW which my corals didn't like. I plan to switch back to Brightwells once my nitrate and phosphate levels hit ~0. I'm bringing them down slowly with zeolites and vinegar dosing.

[VW_TDI_02]

 

I use the Red Sea test kits and Red Sea Coral Pro salt. The test kits are great. Definitely give more accurate results than I got with my API kit. As for their salt, definitely a good salt. High alk, Ca, and Mg levels. I used to use Brightwells Neomarine and that kept my levels closer to NSW which my corals didn't like. I plan to switch back to Brightwells once my nitrate and phosphate levels hit ~0. I'm bringing them down slowly with zeolites and vinegar dosing.

Thanks. I do have a question in regards to dosing. Say I want to dose the calcium portion of 2 part, would I have to dose that every other day or is there an easier way to do it (excluding dosing pumps)? Like a once a week type dose.

[Lawnman]

You first need to get a better salt. You will spend more dosing trying to use up that half bucket of crap. I have a tank full of LPS and use Seachem reef salt and I don't dose anything. Then test your mag alk and calcium everyday for a week. Keep track of the numbers and watch for the drop. Then you know what day or days you need to dose to keep everything stable. I have a good feeling it will be nothing with the few corals you have. But you test at the same time everyday and dose at the same times. You first want to get mag in order then you worry about calcium and alk. Switch to a good REEF salt and your dosing problems will go away.

[Chadf]

I want to here all the bad things about reef crystals that make you think regular instant ocean is better.