LFS water change advise

[fordsvtmfl]

My LFS has been in business for around 15 years and has a great reputation in our area, however they insist that whenever a water change is done it puts the system "in shock" for 3-4 days. They discourage weekly water changes and recommend 25% bi weekly at the most. Most of their other advise has been sound but this seems to contradict most of what I read online.

 

Is there any validity to their advise?

[CronicReefer]

I do 25% water changes weekly and I don't even think my corals notice the new water. If you are matching the new water parameters with the old water then there should be no adverse consequences. Some of the pico reefs on here even do 80-100% water changes a week so I just don't think the theory holds up.

[fordsvtmfl]

Cronic,

That's what I thought. Is it just old school thinking? Were frequent water changes an issue in the past?

[Lawnman]

Thats a bunch of BS. I have drained tanks 100% and filled them back up and corals just slime for a few hours. Most LFS only do bi weekly changes because of the cost and water volume. There was a thread here called daily water change thread and the guy had awesome results changing a gallon a day. I do 10 gallons on Sunday and 10 gallons on Weds and my tank always looks good.

Basically your tank is a big toilet. You want to export as much as possible via protein skimming and water changes. I have never heard someone say I crashed my tank from weekly instead of bi weekly changes. I never ask for advice from the LFS I always do my research or ask questions just like you're doing.

[ajmckay]

Yeah I would agree that the notion "water changes put the system into shock" is not supportable - at least not to the degree where the negatives even come close to outweighing the positives... In a saltwater reef tank there are a limited amount of nutrients and a limited capacity to export waste... So water changes are essential to replenishing nutrients and exporting waste. By leaving a long time between water changes you're allowing waste to accumulate and you're allowing nutrients to diminish which if you have an imbalance in nutrients then you can run into water issues and ultimately algae blooms and unhealthy inhabitants.

 

Some larger systems get by with less frequent water changes because it's cheaper and operationally less burdensome to invest in huge nutrient export systems and dosing regimens. Typical hobby aquariums don't rely on these systems though because its just easier to do frequent water changes.

 

Addressing the shock factor, I think that there is some potential shock involved mainly due to the fact that we're likely not going to match the water parameters exactly (may be a few degrees cooler or a few points off in S.G.), but I think that can be minimized by simple means like not dumping a 5g bucket of water into the tank all at once, letting the SW mix for the appropriate amount of time, and I like to aerate the water briefly before adding it to the tank - as a perceived benefit more than anything.

[fordsvtmfl]

Thats a bunch of BS. I have drained tanks 100% and filled them back up and corals just slime for a few hours. Most LFS only do bi weekly changes because of the cost and water volume. There was a thread here called daily water change thread and the guy had awesome results changing a gallon a day. I do 10 gallons on Sunday and 10 gallons on Weds and my tank always looks good.

Basically your tank is a big toilet. You want to export as much as possible via protein skimming and water changes. I have never heard someone say I crashed my tank from weekly instead of bi weekly changes. I never ask for advice from the LFS I always do my research or ask questions just like you're doing.

 

Thanks for the input. This does however lead me to another somewhat related question. I have not added any corals yet, but I plan on adding only a few softies and maybe a frogspawn or torch. If using a high quality reef salt, and doing a 20-30% water change weekly (10 gallon tank), would I need to dose any supplements or would the water changes most likely be adequate?

[jabeuy]

 

Thanks for the input. This does however lead me to another somewhat related question. I have not added any corals yet, but I plan on adding only a few softies and maybe a frogspawn or torch. If using a high quality reef salt, and doing a 20-30% water change weekly (10 gallon tank), would I need to dose any supplements or would the water changes most likely be adequate?

 

You should be able to get by on water changes, as there wouldn't be much corals using up any alk/calc.

[SchnauzerFace]

I can attest to doing 90%+ WC every week on my pico with zero ill effects. Throw a heater in the bucket to match temp, keep salinity stable and you're fine.

 

Wouldn't more frequent changes be LESS of a shock to the tank? I imagine i didn't stress my livestock because I did weekly water changes so the parameters weren't going to change much. But if I waited a month, for example, there would be a bigger swing in all levels.

[CronicReefer]

 

Thanks for the input. This does however lead me to another somewhat related question. I have not added any corals yet, but I plan on adding only a few softies and maybe a frogspawn or torch. If using a high quality reef salt, and doing a 20-30% water change weekly (10 gallon tank), would I need to dose any supplements or would the water changes most likely be adequate?

You wont need to do any dosing with only a few softies and a frogspawn. You could probably also just do simple 10-20% water changes weekly as long as nitrates/phosphates are staying in acceptable ranges.

[ml86743]

Water changes are the best. Nuff said.

[Idaho ken]

Stumbled upon this thread and wanted to ask a question about water changes, salt types, and the dreaded (in my case) PH. I have limited LFS's where I live, and after loosing a new fish, and taking my water in to be tested, I was told I had very low PH, to the point where "your tank is on the verge of crashing". So due to my low ph, i was not going to get any credit for the loss of the fish. The LFS told me to do 2 to 3 6 gallon water changes (I have a 29 Biocube) in the course of 5 days, then we'll retest the PH. They also told me I should be alternating between salt types, like Kent Reef and Instant Ocean Reef Chrystals because they both have different "good points" and it will help my tank.

 

I have 3 mushrooms, and two different type of zoa frags (5 heads on one, 10 on the other), a feather duster, crabs, snails, the usual clean up crew, and a pep shrimp, and two clowns....they all act and look healthy. Now, back to the PH, it is low.

 

So after doing some research, and reading soooo many different ideas and stands on the PH and water change issue, I decided to go back to my 3 gallon a week water changes, and stick to one salt type. Hold off for another month and try to add another fish.

 

PH - how does one get it back to "normal" instead of low, and, what are the potential issues if I can't get it up to the 8ish range?

 

Thanks all!

[Marc.The.Shark]

What do you consider low? Post up some params so you can get better advice.

[brandon429]

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/358374-100-water-change-vs-media/

 

 

This is relevant above

 

Regarding the pH question

 

Since API was likely used we have no reading, only a broad indication from a test kit that when compared to others, say digital, gives different answers. Nearly all reef tank reactions derived from an API kit were unnecessary. We can leave room for a few that may have been right.

 

Colorimetric kits don't show tenths well, and I suspect most or all of your pH concerns if varied by a tenth would be ok. The fish death cannot be correlated to the suspected pH issues, we need tank pics and non API levels to even begin.

 

So, it may not be low. Alk matters such that pH testing isn't needed, I don't test for anything while keeping all corals. Keep correct alk and magnesium, you won't need pH testing unless you have a carbon dioxide retentive home. Mines all electric, so I've never owned a marine pH test kit.

 

You don't need to switch salt brands because our tanks deal with minor variances including pH. If you have a problem, its alk or magnesium in its etiology, not pH. Holler back with some details. If you have a home that is rarely refreshed with outside air or uses gas then pH can be suspect while having great alk and mag but even so, this is typically not an issue for newer homes and if its the case nothing you do to the tank w matter, what we do to the air surrounding the tank creating a partial gas pressure that retains carbon dioxide in the tank would be the action.

 

To discern co2 issues

 

Take a sample of tank water and put a bubbler in it out on your porch for 10 mins bubbling, circulating, and degassing. If the pH is better than your tank and we already know your ion palette is the same that would indicate a co2 retentive home affecting the tank. All that was summarized from RHF article about pH in the marine tank. Just not the part about forget about pH, I added that

[CronicReefer]

I like how they recommended you should alternate salts, that's just completely unnecessary, stick with either IORC, RSCP, or NeoMarine salts. And a low pH IMO is anything under 7.8 during daytime and I agree if they used the API test it is very subjective to what they read your pH as and probably not very accurate.