New tank developments

[Juuls]

I thought I should say Hi, I have been reading through the forums and have come to the conclusion I am probably a marine fish keepers nightmare and a reoccurring one at that! i.e. you have heard it all from many people looking to start in this hobby. I apologise for that.

 

I have experience with various freshwater fish, breeding and care of them and some species where water conditions are quite important to encourage them to breed. However that is nothing compared to what I have read about when considering Marine Aquariums.

 

Now I'll be honest I have always dreamt of that large marine reef tank but never committed to the idea or saved for it, as I have large Freshwaters and another Aquarium of that size is not likely to happen for a while.

 

So why am I the marine keepers nightmare..... my kid wants a 'Nemo'! Amphiprion ocellaris or Amphiprion percula as they'll never figure out the difference for a few years.

 

I do not mind the idea and I have been researching these clownfish as it would be my husband and I who will probably do most of the tank maintenance etc.

I have visited the LFS and spoken to the staff. Two shops stood out as most are freshwater suppliers in markets etc.

One shop is very keen to discourage anyone from going into this hobby however given their landscaped tropical tanks that they sell it's no wonder they would push these first, the shop also has less healthy fish as a whole and although lovely and prestigious it did not come with the friendly wealth of information I had expected. But they are keen to sell me a set up for approximately 1,500 US dollars it's a bit bigger and more expensive then I would like and it's not a set up that looks attractive, as well as the inhabitants are not what I would have selected.

 

Now the other one is very enthusiastic about marine keeping, they will talk forever about water conditions, sps, lps (and yes that went straight over my head at first until I learnt more about corals). Now this store have a 12 gallon nano tank, and I have seen it 3 times since my research started in January it is running and everything has been in place and everything appears healthy, the corals are lovely and the tank has a ton of hardware, I'd have to go back to name the lot of it. The fish in this shop (although the shop is not something spectacular compared to the first) all seem healthy as well.

Basically the first shop will sell me the entire set up and bring it/install it in my house, they will also do my water tests free and show me what they are using and what they are testing for so if I do want to do them myself I can take this on with the 'know how'. Sounds great... but...

 

Although those corals look great they also scare me, I am not too confident with corals especially knowing at least one of them stings. I think it is fair to say I have been reading more and building up my fear of corals.

 

Secondly the tank has no lid and I have heard of Clownfish that have jumped out of tanks. Unfortunately with all the equipment it is not possible to put the lid on the tank anymore.

Therefore I will continue reading (and any advise anyone has would be greatly appreciated) and am currently leaning towards trying to get a 10 to 20 gallons tank with accessories, live rock and two clowns. I think I will also a couple of invertebrates to go with them. I have a budget which equates to approximately 700- 800 us dollars to start me off, I hope this will be enough but we shall see. I think I am going to brave this and set something up myself in order to start a tank which can be enjoyed by our household. If we get brave enough we can think of upgrading lighting etc and looking into some corals etc at a later date.

[Rememberme]

I recommend starting with a completely empty tank with only hardware. Clownfish do have a tendency to jump, but this is unlikely to happen. However, if you do want to make a lid you can go to a homedepo store and make one out a of wire mesh instead, you can cut it so that the equipment can go through it.

 

Maintenance won't be a huge issue if you don't keep sps and only have one fish (you could go for 2, 3 in a 20 gallon), i'd advise a regular water change once every 2 weeks at the very minimum (roughly 30-40% each time).

 

I'd also recommend you get a long tank rather than a cube/tall tank, cause it makes aquascaping a lot easier and gives you more room for coral.

 

If you want to reduce the frequency of water changes you'll need to do you could feed less often (one larger meal every 2 days), this'll give some wiggle-room if something in life happens which causes you to deal with other things first.

[Juuls]

Thank you I shall speak with the shops about a set up and as i would rather have 2 clownfish I will try and get a 20 gallon.

 

It would be more comfortable to research Corals a lot more before selecting and adding them (plus as everyone says setting up takes time and should not be rushed)

 

That's a useful tip regarding the mesh lid and the feeding, noted and committed to memory

[Rememberme]

No prob!

 

As for corals and setting up, if you have pre-cured liverock at your lfs (all the dead stuff is gone and some live stuff has gone in) you should grab that. Pre-cured live rock will save you a lot time cycling (might not even happen). If the rock is pre-cured you can add the clowns in immediately so long as you add some bacteria in a bottle stuff (I use nutra-fin, but there's plenty out there you can get). The clowns won't be harmed whatsoever, since there will already be bacteria in the rocks and dosing more bacteria will minimize a ammonia spike if there isn't enough bacteria already in the live rocks. Dosing bacteria also increases the rate at which the bacteria will reproduce in the biomedia. If you wanna be extra safe to not have a cycle, you can buy live sand rather than dry sand.

 

After like 2-3 months you can introduce an anemone (I have a BTA in my 20 gallon), which can host the clownfishes. Anemones are not necessary for clownfishes, but their relationship is kinda cool to watch. I would only add a BTA in a 20 gallon since they're known as the most hardy.

 

Just an FYI, overtime your clownfishes will figure out which one is the dominant one at that one will turn into a female and the other will turn into a male. The female one continues to grow while the male stops (a male can always turn to female but not vice-versa).

[Cencalfishguy56]

I would go a 20 G long tank so clean looking! You can get a cheap one off petsmart for 20 bucks

[Mojado]

I would go a 20 G long tank so clean looking! You can get a cheap one off petsmart for 20 bucks

I don't think OP is in the US.

[Juuls]

Thank you everyone, it does seem like a 20g is the way to go. Unfortunately I am based in the middle east so my options are slightly limited (and prices are inflated).

 

I shall speak with the two shops this weekend and figure out what options are available for me to put together my own set up.

 

I know they have live rock and have read about the different types, so will ask if they have cured live rock available.

[Juuls]

I spoke to one local shop (the best rated in the region) who stated I need a tank/stand/rocks/substrate to start up for a $1,000 to keep a clown fish. The tank size is 60 x 60 x 60 which according to calculators online is 40 gallon even is 10 is dedicated elsewhere this seems more than required for one or two clown fish with a small cleaning crew. Or over 50 gallons if you use 1gal = 3800 ish cm cubed.

 

They are also stating that a coral or anemone is required for a clown, I was under the impression it was not essential for them(?) And they only stock only safe non stinging/toxic corals? Is there a coral that is totally harmless? If this is true it may be lovely to have some.

 

There does not seem to be an option to make a new set up from scratch to sit on an existing heavy duty bench/surface? However they did stock a lot of aquariums including fluvals which would sell without stands.

 

Sorry for the random newbie questions I am going to go back through the literature now and check. But I would appreciate any input or advise from those with experience.

 

They did say it would be about 2 weeks to cycle the tank, which is fine I was expecting this type of time frame so am not too worried about that.

[farkwar]

Xenia? Besides overgrowing stuff. If its toxic, I don't know what to.

 

60x60x60? This is centimeters? If so, that's a 60 gallon tank.

 

You don't need a nem for clowns. Its a nice-to-have.

 

 

 

Zoas are pretty sting free. I don't think my zoas have killed anything. Everything else, coral wise, I own has killed or burned something.

[Rememberme]

I spoke to one local shop (the best rated in the region) who stated I need a tank/stand/rocks/substrate to start up for a $1,000 to keep a clown fish. The tank size is 60 x 60 x 60 which according to calculators online is 40 gallon even is 10 is dedicated elsewhere this seems more then required for one or two clown fish with a small cleaning crew.

 

They are also stating that a coral or anemone is required for a clown, I was under the impression it was not essential for them(?) And they only stock only safe non stinging/toxic corals? Is there a coral that is totally harmless? If this is true it may be lovely to have some.

 

There does not seem to be an option to make a new set up from scratch to sit on an existing heavy duty bench/surface? However they did stock a lot of aquariums including fluvals which would sell without stands.

 

Sorry for the random newbie questions I am going to go back through the literature now and check. But I would appreciate any input or advise from those with experience.

 

They did say it would be about 2 weeks to cycle the tank, which is fine I was expecting this type of time frame so am not too worried about that.

Lol they're just trying to make sales so don't worry.

 

2 clowns, yea probably 10 gallon is the absolute minimum, other fish will create territorial aggression. Damsels like clowns are quite territorial (my clown bites me when I put my hand in!).

 

Anemones are not essential. Clowns like to host on anemones in the wild as it prevents predators from eating them, without one they usually die. In the home aquarium it is very unlikely for there to be predators and therefore anemones are not required, might make them happier though. Also, keep in mind that even if you put an anemone in a clown may or may not want to be hosted in it and can take from a few minutes to several months (took mine a month).

 

Totally harmless corals would be soft corals, the only way they can kill another coral is growing over it and blocking its sunlight. some LPS like acans are somewhat harmless. Most brain coral and all euphillia (torch, hammer and forgspawn) can participate in coral warfare, where they release stingers. I'd say like 50% of LPS are harmless. Not sure about SPS, never kept any.

 

For any info about corals and their level of aggression/care go to liveaquaria.com or http://www.vividaquariums.com

 

As for youtube videos I reccomend vivdaquarium's and tidal gardens.

 

I reckon you could easily make or buy a stand, probs some DIY guides online. IMO probably like buy a short cabinet and put it on top?

[Juuls]

Oh my thank you for such a prompt response and advise.

 

I will read the links regarding corals, I shall get reading. Liveaquaria looks fantastic, it just took a moment of my time there just glancing over it... so much to read

 

Clownfish biting is probably a good thing, maybe it will encourage little fingers to remain out of the aquarium and as such I could then look into getting that anemone sometime down the line

 

I have an area where I can put the aquarium so will not need the stand. I think I shall talk to the gentlemen in the second shop this evening and see what options they can give me. They are much more honest and down right straight forward than the posh shop and will talk to you forever about the if's buts and alternatives as well as pitfalls and overcoming them.

 

If it comes up blank I'll write my dream list and go to purchase the bits separately, I'll keep the sales team away and just work my own way through

[Rememberme]

Oh my thank you for such a prompt response and advise.

 

I will read the links regarding corals, I shall get reading. Liveaquaria looks fantastic, it just took a moment of my time there just glancing over it... so much to read

 

Clownfish biting is probably a good thing, maybe it will encourage little fingers to remain out of the aquarium and as such I could then look into getting that anemone sometime down the line

 

I have an area where I can put the aquarium so will not need the stand. I think I shall talk to the gentlemen in the second shop this evening and see what options they can give me. They are much more honest and down right straight forward than the posh shop and will talk to you forever about the if's buts and alternatives as well as pitfalls and overcoming them.

 

If it comes up blank I'll write my dream list and go to purchase the bits separately, I'll keep the sales team away and just work my own way through

Np! Make sure wherever you put the aquarium can withstand the weight.

 

Weight is approx:

 

Length(cm)*Width(cm)*Height(cm)=Volume(cm^3)

1cm^3=1 gram

 

Soo basically equation is:

Volume=mass/density and density of water is 1gcm^-3

 

Instead you could just eyeball it and guess, whatever floats ur boat

[Juuls]

my word so fill the tank being offered above to the brim and it has the potential to be heavier them my husband and I combined.

 

Oh and the price for the tank is probably close to correct given that it would require shipping on top as the systems they have market for $800 in the US.

[Rememberme]

Haha yea, a 40 gallon is 151kg (with equipment probably more!).

[Juuls]

Xenia? Besides overgrowing stuff. If its toxic, I don't know what to.

 

60x60x60? This is centimeters? If so, that's a 60 gallon tank.

 

You don't need a nem for clowns. Its a nice-to-have.

 

 

 

Zoas are pretty sting free. I don't think my zoas have killed anything. Everything else, coral wise, I own has killed or burned something.

 

the Xenia ones look good almost like mini starfish on arms You are right about the sting too. They may be a choice. I need to read more as they may really be an option.

 

oh dear so it would be 60 Gallon that makes a mockery of my small tank idea.

 

Zoas are very toxic if little fingers ever got in and little fingers don't always wash their hands before putting them in their mouths etc 99% sure they won't but their is always that 1% of randomness with children I'd rather not have to worry about.

[farkwar]

How much is an Elos Mini over there?

 

You get about everything you need, but the light, with the system.

 

And you could certainly house a pair of clowns in it. And a couple other small fish.

 

It would be about 25%to a third the cost in corals of that 60x60x60.

[Juuls]

Well the second shop does have an Elos, I was going to reply that they may be impossible to find here, but held off until I went to the shop.

 

However I have opted for a 60l x 30w x 40h instead, which comes with a white stand - this hits the target size of 15 - 2 gallons perfectly. The reason for this is that the Elos system he has is the only one in stock and contains lots of more scary things, also it's in black not white or a lighter wood so would really stand out badly in the front room

 

The one I opted for is set up ready to go(full spec and details of lights to follow). It has a cleaning crew (snails, dwarf zebra hermit crab) a feather duster, switching out the anemone for a Torch Coral and two clown fish. They are going to add a starfish as well because my son loved it.

 

It's got a lot of empty rock which has potential to develop as time goes on. So it's not the most beautiful aquarium at the moment, actually I think the man thought I was a bit crazy not taking a fully set up reef tank. But I want to learn and would rather start of knowing I can maintain a few before I take on a maxed out tank. Plus it will be great as I learn more to add to it and develop it slowly.

 

They will bring the tank over and install it in 2 weeks time with the refactometer, test kits (although he's told me to bring the water sample to him for the first few weeks so he can walk me through the testing and show me what I am doing and looking for and how to correct anything if needed), food and a huge bucket of red sea salt (well not the biggest bucket but big enough.

 

If I succeed in keeping it alive for a few months (thinking 4 - 6 to settle myself into things) and stable I am already looking at the star polyps as a potential choice, that was stunning! but that is much further down the line.

 

Bonus is that when we tallied up the cost at the end it came within my budget I came home with the equivalent of $100 in my pocket.

[Rememberme]

Well the second shop does have an Elos, I was going to reply that they may be impossible to find here, but held off until I went to the shop.

 

However I have opted for a 60l x 30w x 40h instead, which comes with a white stand - this hits the target size of 15 - 2 gallons perfectly. The reason for this is that the Elos system he has is the only one in stock and contains lots of more scary things, also it's in black not white or a lighter wood so would really stand out badly in the front room

 

The one I opted for is set up ready to go(full spec and details of lights to follow). It has a cleaning crew (snails, dwarf zebra hermit crab) a feather duster, switching out the anemone for a Torch Coral and two clown fish. They are going to add a starfish as well because my son loved it.

 

It's got a lot of empty rock which has potential to develop as time goes on. So it's not the most beautiful aquarium at the moment, actually I think the man thought I was a bit crazy not taking a fully set up reef tank. But I want to learn and would rather start of knowing I can maintain a few before I take on a maxed out tank. Plus it will be great as I learn more to add to it and develop it slowly.

 

They will bring the tank over and install it in 2 weeks time with the refactometer, test kits (although he's told me to bring the water sample to him for the first few weeks so he can walk me through the testing and show me what I am doing and looking for and how to correct anything if needed), food and a huge bucket of red sea salt (well not the biggest bucket but big enough.

 

If I succeed in keeping it alive for a few months (thinking 4 - 6 to settle myself into things) and stable I am already looking at the star polyps as a potential choice, that was stunning! but that is much further down the line.

 

Bonus is that when we tallied up the cost at the end it came within my budget I came home with the equivalent of $100 in my pocket.

Def no for starfish!

[Juuls]

oh what does the starfish do wrong? some say they do well and last okay others say they starve?

 

The guy in the shop has been great I have ordered the tank last night and then have been reading about the torch coral all day, it's as nasty as the anemone.

 

So I texted him and he's said just to pop into the shop and we can switch it out he'll talk me through what he has in.

[Rememberme]

oh what does the starfish do wrong? some say they do well and last okay others say they starve?

 

The guy in the shop has been great I have ordered the tank last night and then have been reading about the torch coral all day, it's as nasty as the anemone.

 

So I texted him and he's said just to pop into the shop and we can switch it out he'll talk me through what he has in.

Most starfish other than brittle eat coral (e.g chocolate chip), with the exception of sand sifting stars. Sand sifting star require a ton of food and will die after a while without a large enough system, its death may cause a crash in the system (starfish usually melt when they die). You could get a serpent star but those can sometimes end up eating fish. For a starfish I could only recommend a brittle.

 

In my opinion, go for both anemones and torch! Torch corals can sting other corals but this shouldn't be a problem so long as it's far enough away. Usually the torch grows vertically with the exception of wall-like growing torch, so most things shouldn't be in its range anyways. Anemones can host a range of things! Like Sexy Shrimp, Porcelain crabs and Clownfish!! I have 1 crab, 4 sexy shrimps an 1 clown and they all (kinda) host on it. Mostly my crab and clown are on the anemone, the shrimp are usually on outskirts. But again, just my opinion, everyone has different tastes.

 

The above animals are known to host both torch and anemones (as well as a wide range of other corals).

 

When you aquascape try to have a center piece where it'll be the first thing you look at every time you see the aquarium (mines a torch coral). Also, try to arrange the rocks either in a right angle triangle format or with islands, symmetry looks bad in aquariums.

 

Anemones and torches look beautiful! Here's my tank (nothing special, but i'm proud to call it my own. I also have a reaaaallly bad phone camera):

 

I have a new clam coming this saturday! :DD

https://www.flickr.com/photos/72647163@N02/16321186639/in/photostream (in HKD)

 

Probably gonna sell my green/blue and orange acan to make growing space for it

[Juuls]

Oh thank you, I believe it is a sand shifting starfish, so will speak about taking that one away from the order tonight and ask about a brittle starfish instead if he has one.

 

I love your tank, the green at the front is amazing (very similar to the star polyps I fell in love with yesterday) and it looks as though there is plenty of colours as well as movement too.

 

Has your torch ever stung you?

 

I am concerned mostly about the children putting their hand into it, not that they should and they probably will not but if they do, well I'm nervous about it. Some of the comments online about stinging torches are concerning.

 

I shall try to see how to mess up the symmetry actually how and where to set up things is also something I have been trying to figure out a bit more about.

 

The clam looks gorgeous! you'll have to upload a new photo when it moves into your tank.

[Rememberme]

Oh thank you, I believe it is a sand shifting starfish, so will speak about taking that one away from the order tonight and ask about a brittle starfish instead if he has one.

 

I love your tank, the green at the front is amazing (very similar to the star polyps I fell in love with yesterday) and it looks as though there is plenty of colours as well as movement too.

 

Has your torch ever stung you?

 

I am concerned mostly about the children putting their hand into it, not that they should and they probably will not but if they do, well I'm nervous about it. Some of the comments online about stinging torches are concerning.

 

I shall try to see how to mess up the symmetry actually how and where to set up things is also something I have been trying to figure out a bit more about.

 

The clam looks gorgeous! you'll have to upload a new photo when it moves into your tank.

Both my torch and bubble-tip anemone have never stung me. Most people actually frag both of them without gloves! In some of the youtube video tutorials made by people in the industry (e.g tidal gardens) they frag bare handed. If it won't sting you whilst you cut it, it definitely won't sting you if you just poke it. However, I have heard of some people being allergic to anemones/corals.

 

Thanks! I'll definitely upload a new pic soon Maybe even open up a build thread.

[Rememberme]

Has some useful information about coral stings:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/318982-corals-sting-how-bad-is-it/

 

I suppose reactions are all relative to your skin/physical situation, if you have a cut or have sensitive skin then you might get hurt. TBH I don't know a ton about coral stings but from my experience I don't feel a thing

[Cencalfishguy56]

You don't actually get stung, but you will get the stinging cells on your hands and you can actually feel it as it is slimy, just wash your hands after you have them in the tank and you will be fine, if you don't wash them I can't guarantee you won't develop a rash or itchy bumps lol but some anemones do actually have a powerful sting but you'll be fine don't worry unless you're sensitive

[Juuls]

Thank you, I am less nervous about the anemone then I am about the euyphilla, really tempted to take that away.

 

However I will invest in gloves just to be on the safe side.