4k budget for tank build

[Griff]

So I've convinced the wife to let me get into reefing. I have what I think is a decent budget for the build. This budget does not include livestock but should include tank, sand, rock, heaters, lighting, power heads, ro/di setup ect. I've priced it out and can just keep it in range with the following setup.

 

Cad lights artisan 2 100g

2 Kessil 360s

1 mp 40

Heater

Sand

Live rock 70 lbs

Magnet cleaner

RO/DI unit

Enough salt for setup and 3 months water changes

Refractometer

 

So now my problem. After reading reviews on cad lights I am looking for alternative setups

I've considered

Cad lights 100g artisan 2

Cad lights 100g SAIO

Red Sea reefer 450 I'd have to wait for it to be available. I've read price may go up from the 2k they are projecting

Now looking at SCA based on what I've read in nano reef forums.

IM SR 80 based on reviews here leaning away from them also

 

What are everyone thoughts?

[Pilg0re]

$4k is a good budget, with that kind of money I'd stay away from an AIO tank because you can easily get a sumped system and it will be way easier to maintain and it will look a lot cleaner.

 

Are you factoring that $4k into your livestock too? Because that can easily cost $4k by itself

[jedimasterben]

SCA makes some really beautiful tanks.

[Griff]

Live stock is not part of budget

[aviator300]

I don't think we know your level of "Reef Tank" experience yet or even if you have any at all. It's obvious that you've done some homework by the equipt you chose but it seems a bit chancy (is chancy even a word) to start so big and expensive with little prior experience.

 

You could begin with a much less expensive tank and upgrade to the ones you have chosen when/if you discover this "lifestyle" is for you. You could cut your budget in half this way and still begin with a 70+ gal tank.

 

On the other hand, if you have experience in reef keeping and understand all of the pitfalls you may encounter, then totally ignore this post and Go for it !!!!

[evanski]

Griff...where you from?

 

My guess is there are several folks here near you. You might consider reaching out to the NR locals, joining a club, meeting at LFS, etc. I have found the community to be very helpful and engaging.

 

Study, talk, read...and then do it some more before you spend a dime. Really. You should have your system planned out to the last detail before you start building.

 

And go slow once your system is set up. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby!

 

Finally, make sure to start a build thread and keep us all posted!

 

Good luck!

[Griff]

No experience with salt water. I've kept several fresh water tanks. I'm all for cutting my budget in half! What would you suggest for a starter tank I know I want a rimless tank. The only reason I went to this size tank is I wanted to keep a yellow tang. I've mainly researched equipment but in terms of livestock I'd like to have 3 green chromies 2 clowns a mandarin and a yellow tang. Not sure if I'd have issues with keeping these fish together but would do more research first. My plan would be to add the 3 chromies after the nitrogen cycle wait a month if every goes well add the 2 clowns wait a month add the mandarin wait a month add the yellow tang.

 

From Fredericksburg Virginia

[SchnauzerFace]

Tangs need a lot of room to swim so if you're looking to cut your budget, I wouldn't suggest downsizing the tank. Mandarins are super hard to keep, especially if your system hasn't had time to mature. I know they're beautiful fish, but they have very special needs and probably won't make it in a new tank.

 

That Cad Lights tank has a lot of aesthetic appeal, but it's sucking up over 50% of your budget. AIO setups are convenient, but you pay a premium for that convenience. Another thing to consider -- you could save a lot by looking into gently used (or even new!) setups from local people in your area. I'm sure there's a reef club nearby Fredericksburg. I got my 75g system with stand and canopy, pumps, sump, skimmer, heater, etc etc etc for $550. I had to make a few upgrades and put some elbow grease into the stand and canopy, but it allowed me to spend money elsewhere (and still end up with extra in my pocket).

 

Also, consider that Vortech really doesn't have the market cornered on wave makers anymore. An RW8 is about 1/4 of the price, and I love my Jabeo pump. I'm starting a new tank right now and I'm not even considering vortech.

 

Heater, sand, rock, salt, RODI, and refractometer all sound like good choices

 

I think if you make a few adjustments here and there, you can still get a gorgeous setup -- and have enough left over for an ATO system and probably an Apex controller, too.

 

Anyway, just my thoughts. Good luck and welcome to the hobby!

[Dramad1]

I'd check out a local forum and pick up a set up someone is breaking down, you'd spend way less to start.

Don't cycle your tank with live fish either, kind like torturing the fish. Check out the lfs and ask away any questions you may have. Joining a local club or forum is a great way to meet people and learn different techniques to reef/fish keeping. You will hear many ways of doing things, some conflicting with others. You gotta kinda find what works best for your set up and what you want out of it.

Before even buying anything, you need to write it all out, What you want, size, cost to maintain, etc etc then research. Tons of info out there, browse people's builds, see what they have done. This will give you ideas of what you may want. Research some more, gotta question-try searching for the answer, can't find it ask.

Not having any experience with saltwater, you should not be spending that amount of money to get your feet wet. What if after a few months of maintenance and fails you decide the addiction is not for you? A lot of time, money, work goes into a sucess full reef tank. And my battery's about to die.

Get a plan, buy some books, do some research, join a local club/forum, visit local shops, find out what you want before buying a tank. Who, what, where, when, why, how can you get started and be sucessfull. 4k is alot of coin to drop with no experience

[Sancho]

4K is a huge budget for someone with no salt water experience. The Mandarin and Yellow tang are very very poor choices for fish for a newbie. Tangs need space and the mandarin wont eat unless you have pods readily availible. I have made so many mistakes over the years. Dont buy into the $$$$$$ hype on products. There are cheaper options out there. Like Drama stated join a local club/forum look for someone selling a complete set up. I am willing to bet with a little patience you will find what you are looking for for under a grand. Than you have $3000 to stock it. There are several complete set ups on my local forum right now from $500 to $2000.

[Ahanix]

I'll come back here and post more, but I would go with 70lbs of reef cleaners / Marco / BRS rock. You will save at least another $150-$200 this way.

 

I am looking at doing something similar this fall, and I think the CAD is an excellent choice since it comes with pretty much everything you need sans lights and powerheads. SC is a great choice as well, and will give you the flexibility and time to build everything else. There's lots to be learned so it will be good for you to do research over just getting a plug and play system and shutting down after the first problem you have

 

As others have said, used is a good avenue for hardware.

 

I would make sure you get two MP40's over one, or change which powerheads you end up getting to achieve the necessary amount of flow you will need long term.

[Griff]

 

Thank you for suggesting looking at local forums. 5k seems steep and it's not the 4ft 100g I want but if I can get a good deal I'd settle for this. Any thoughts on what I shoul offer. I'm really only interested in his tank LEDs ato system and mp 40. I'd like to see if he will sell his livestock and other equipment off first.

 

 

 

 

MUST GO!!!!!cadlights 70g white with 2 radion xr30w, mp40 vortech with reeflink. sump with ato and ato tank with heaters and powerheads. reeflite controller with ph probe and temp probe, cad lights 150g skimmer and 2 heaters, phosban reactor, 75 lbs live rock, richordias, mushroom and polyp and zoa colonies. purple hammer, gorgonias, huge frogspawns and 30 head duncan. 2 nice leathers, blue xenia. montipora, and a few sps, two acan colonies. two clowns a hippo tang, goby, tominey tail tang. and more i probably missed. THIS SET UP IS ONLY 3 MONTHS OLD AND BOUGHT EVERYTHING BRAND NEW!! OVER 7K NVESTED AND LOOKING TO GET $$5300. THE LEDS MAKE EVERY PIC LOOK BLUE... ILL TRY MY BEST MUST SEE IN PERSON

[Griff]

Maybe a better question is for a realatively new system how much below retail should I be paying?

[SchnauzerFace]

Honestly, I would avoid that setup for several reasons.

 

1.) It's $1300 over your budget and 30 gallons smaller than you wanted to begin with. No need to settle for less while going over budget by 33%

2.) The tank has only been set up for 3 months, which is very, very young for a tank. While the tank continues to slowly cycle, there are going to be a lot of issues popping up. As someone new to reefing, you don't want to have to handle those problems with a fully stocked tank of fish and corals.

3.) There could be some debate, but I firmly believe that tank is too small for the hippo tang. He's going to outgrow it (if he hasn't already).

4.) The tomini tang I guess could be OK in a 70g, but having two clowns, a goby, and a hippo tang is starting to get too crowded for my taste.

5.) The tank is stocked with lots of LPS and some SPS corals. These corals require specific parameters that are hard to get right on a brand new tank, and even harder when you're still learning the ins and outs of reef keeping. For a novice, it will be extremely hard to keep the SPS healthy in an immature tank with a high bioload.

6.) The xr30w is a super high-end LED setup -- and he's got two. That's cool, and I'm jealous! But so far you've only mentioned kinds of fish that you want to keep. If you're not really interested in corals, there's no need to spend so much on lights. I just checked Marine Depot, and the xr30w is $650. If he's put $1,300 into lights that are only 3 months old, he's probably going to want to recoup most of that. I wouldn't put down $1,000 for lights until you're sure you want to keep SPS corals and also that you're sure your tank can support their needs.

7.) You mention you're most interested in the tank, lights, ATO and powerhead. Are you planning on using a protein skimmer? If not, you're going to have a nightmare keeping a tank full of fish as well as hard corals unless you've got a solid plan for nutrient export.

 

As for the question how much below retail should you pay for a new system ... that's going to vary based on the type of equipment, if it's an "older" model, what the expected longevity for that particular type of equipment it is, what condition it's in, and how "new" it is. I honestly have no idea how old my aquarium is, but when I bought it there was only one noticeable scratch so that was less important. So if it was 5 years old, I wouldn't care. But I wouldn't pay big bucks for a powerhead that's 5 years old.

 

Some equipment technology -- LEDs, especially -- is moving forward at an incredible rate. Some LEDs that came out maybe a year or two ago can still be perfectly awesome, but you can expect to pay less for them. For example, the Kessil A350 is still a fantastic light, but the A360we has made it "last year's" model and you can haggle a bit more.

 

Anyway, just my rambling thoughts. I'd again suggest taking it all very slow. If you buy equipment all at once, it can be overwhelming. You may look into your cabinet and see a skimmer, media reactor, canister filter, an ATO and dosing pumps and just say "What the heck is that thing again?" But if you get each thing piece by piece, you might be able to take some time with the equipment, learn how to operate and maintain it, and really get a good grasp on exactly what it does for your tank and why you need it.

 

Hope this helps!
Andrew

[Griff]

Thanks for the reply Andrew. I completely agree with everything you stated. I guess I was including the skimmer in the tank because that's the way cad lights sells it. I also agree about his live stock. I really don't want any of his live stock. I want to start my reef from the ground up. I was thinking I would offer the following if he is willing to disassemble and part out.

1000 for the tank with stand and skimmer included

200 for the mp40 270 if it's the quiet drive

I'll take the lights off him for 800 because I prefer the kessils anyway but would take the radeons for that price.

 

I don't know what to offer for the ATO

 

Taking into account that I would not consider his tank if it's a complete package I'm actually under budget.

 

Thanks again for the comments I'm really excited to get a tank going and it's hard to slow down even though I need to pace myself.

[SchnauzerFace]

I'll take the lights off him for 800 because I prefer the kessils anyway but would take the radeons for that price.

 

 

If he's willing to let you take them off his hands at that price, then that's a very good deal, imo.

 

If this the tank he's selling: http://www.cadlights.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=294

and he includes everything listed on the website's description (aquarium, stand, canopy, sump, plumbing, return, skimmer), then I think $1000 wouldn't be out of the question for a 3-month old tank. You might be able to get away with your tang in there, but it's smaller than many would advise.

 

I've made a lot of errors during my time in the reef keeping hobby, so I hope I (and many others here) can steer you in the right direction.

 

I'm currently starting a 17g nano, which is the 4th tank I've had over the years. This is the first time I feel like I'm making the right choices from the very beginning. Not because I'm willing to spend a little extra, but because I know what I want the end product to be, and I know what is required to get there. There's so much to this hobby -- chemistry, plumbing, physics, biology, etc -- so it can literally take years to really wrap your brain around everything.

 

This might open a debate, but I'll make this suggestion: start with dry rock! I'm getting Pukani dry rock from Bulk Reef Supply. There are benefits and drawbacks, but I think it's the best choice in the long run. I'm going to have to soak it in a muriatic acid solution and then cure it for several weeks, but I will be very confident that I'm not introducing any unwanted hitchhikers, algae, aiptasia, majano, etc into the tank. It does take a lot of patience, but you'll thank yourself later when you don't have to deal with an aiptasia outbreak or a killer shrimp that snuck into your tank.

 

ALSO -- last thing that comes to mind at the moment. Before putting water into the tank, I strongly suggest designing a structurally solid, aesthetically pleasing rock design. While doing so, be sure to leave room for cleaning, room for coral placement at various heights, room for the powerheads to circulate water throughout the ENTIRE tank (no dead zones!) and a couple cave structures for your critters to feel safe. Once you've got it exactly like you like it, I suggest drilling holes into the rock and supporting it with acrylic rods and some reef-safe epoxy. This is a lesson I've learned from some of the many mistakes I've learned over the years

[Griff]

Thee reef scraping is probably one of the things I'm most excited about. Thanks for all the tips. I'll have to do a search for acrylic rods. I was going to us epoxy but using a rod is a great idea. Thanks for all the tips!

[Lawnman]

4K budget and you're are buying a CAD tank with there inferior plumbing? I built my entire setup for 2300 dollars.

[Griff]

Law man do you have a build thread you could post a link to? Did the 2300 include lighting?

Damn autocorrect sorry lawnman

[Arce]

If i had a 4k budget for a tank id be soo happy.

 

Do things right the first time, get good gear, dont skip. With 4k you can make one hell of a system.

[Lawnman]

Law man do you have a build thread you could post a link to? Did the 2300 include lighting?Damn autocorrect sorry lawnman

Well it's not really a build thread but here is my tank and yes it included lighting.

 

750 for a custom 36x24x12 Starphire tank from Pico

650 for a stand and sump

400 for a light and bulbs

85 dollars for a return pump

200 for BM skimmer

50 for a used reactor

50 for PVC and fittings

MP 40 was a gift but figure 300.

Grand total =2485 if my math is correct

[Griff]

Lawnman where did you buy your stand and sump

[Lawnman]

Lawnman where did you buy your stand and sump

Lawnman where did you buy your stand and sump

Well the stand and sump came from Cad with a tank. There inferior plumbing kept leaking so I tightened up the bulkheads and cracked the tank. So I threw there tank in the garbage and had Pico make me a custom tank for the stand. You can buy the stand from them and a sump. I would not buy one of there pre made tanks though. They use stupid bulkheads and hole sizes.

[Griff]

Well I may get a lot of flak for this but decided to start big. Just put a deposit down on a red sea reefer 450. 116 gallon water volume 92 gallon display volume 59 inches long. It won't be in till June but based on all the negative reviews I found on cad lights and innovative marine I felt this was the best way to go long term. This also gives me plenty of time to find LEDs power heads and a skimmer second hand and hopefully save some money there. I know I had several comments about not spending so much on this lifestyle so early but I know it's something I want to do and have seriously been thinking it over since early January and have been semi interested for years. It's almost been an obsession for the past 2 months. I find myself researching at every free moment I get. Wish me luck. I'll start my build thread soon as I know I'll need lots of advice getting started.

 

Allen

Fredericksburg, Va

[Chadf]

Congrats and good luck. Hopefully the maintenance isn't too mundane for you like it is me.