Why all the hate and bashing on the little fellas :-P

[jlangtree]

I have noticed that in the Australian reefing community of late, mainly on the Facebook forums there seems to be a lot of negative feedback and people wanting to discourage new reefers from Pico/Nano.

 

Its actually quite bloody sad, as most of the ones doing the bashing have never kept a smaller tank/wont post a full tank photo of their current system

 

Do any of you guys find that happening in your locality?

[CrazyEyes]

I think when people joining the hobby decide to do so they see a small tank and go, oh it's small, there isn't too much too it. But smaller tanks for a beginner is going to be a challenge. Fit can hit the shan real quick,

[Azedenkae]

I have no idea really. I find nanos to be the best beginner aquariums, as they are small enough that it is not a pain, and big enough that it is not a pain.

 

Also isn't too hard to handle, and one can do away with a lot of equipment - making it easier to handle for a beginner as well.

 

But for some reason a lot of people's just 'omgwtf' about it. ><

 

Picos are another reason, but nanos are super easy. We always recommend nanos to beginners where I work, and they always find it a relatively easy time.

 

Heck, I can count the amount of equipment in my nano in one hand:

-Sand

-Marine Pure

-Heater

-Return Pump

-Thermometer!

 

So not sure what's so hard about it. XD

[jlangtree]

I have no idea really. I find nanos to be the best beginner aquariums, as they are small enough that it is not a pain, and big enough that it is not a pain.

 

Also isn't too hard to handle, and one can do away with a lot of equipment - making it easier to handle for a beginner as well.

 

But for some reason a lot of people's just 'omgwtf' about it. ><

 

Picos are another reason, but nanos are super easy. We always recommend nanos to beginners where I work, and they always find it a relatively easy time.

 

Heck, I can count the amount of equipment in my nano in one hand:

-Sand

-Marine Pure

-Heater

-Return Pump

-Thermometer!

 

So not sure what's so hard about it. XD

Exactly, there are just as many arguments for as there are against. I find Nano/Pico's exceptionally easy to keep.

 

My equipment list for my 2G Pico is:

 

- Tank (no substrate)

- Heater

- Par38 Globe (Coral Flare Max2) on a custom frame.

- 90G/hour HOB filter.

 

 

They are the perfect beginner tank, as things can be reset so simply and cost effectively. I suppose I just hate seeing people getting ripped off getting talked into purchasing $100's of dollars worth of equipment that over complicates the whole hobby

[Martin in China]

I guess (and hope) that it's a matter of maintenance (keeping up water changes, cleaning filter, topping of water and so on.....) to be successful with a Nano or Pico reef tank, if not you could go wrong fast, for sure much faster than with a big tank.

I think a Nano tank makes a nice starter tank, this way it teaches you to take care of your tank on a regular base, not just when you feel like it.

[jlangtree]

I guess (and hope) that it's a matter of maintenance (keeping up water changes, cleaning filter, topping of water and so on.....) to be successful with a Nano or Pico reef tank, if not you could go wrong fast, for sure much faster than with a big tank.

I think a Nano tank makes a nice starter tank, this way it teaches you to take care of your tank on a regular base, not just when you feel like it.

I totally agree with you, Nanos teach the basics well.

[Nano sapiens]

The old 'Go big or go home' thing is seen on some forums, but not here on Nano-Reef, of course

[farkwar]

The old 'Go big or go home' thing is seen on some forums, but not here on Nano-Reef, of course

How many beginner's nanos or picos make it to year 2?

 

Those that we see as TOTM etc. Are almost all from experienced reefers.

[StevieT]

I ship to Australia now more than ever in the past 8 years, even in your current "slow" summer season right now. The sales don't back it up.

 

Facebook is dead and taken over by my parents and the low informed.

 

Stick to nano-reef

[Amy]

My first attempt into the hobby was a 1 gallon this was the most successful tank I had it was tons of fun as well. Everything is kept so simple I never had a crash just had to frag corals often as they grew to fast in this little tank but that was a good thing. I am just in the process of going back to my 1 gallon from my 5 gallon which is small as well. But Ricordeas are my absolute favorite so that is all I will have in there for corals.

 

They are easy to do providing you keep things simple but you are limited as to what you can have in very small tanks too.

 

To answer the question though about being discouraged I can tell you from my own experience here that many of the reefers here are not to friendly towards people like me as they also have that mentality go big or go home. They think us people are just a waste to the hobby. but then there are some that are so intrigued to see how and what you can grow and keep in these small tanks with such simple setups.

 

My largest was a 25 gallon my smallest 1 gallon my favorite 1 gallon

I should have also added my 1 gallon I had going for 5 years before I took a break from the hobby for a while.

[Nano sapiens]

How many beginner's nanos or picos make it to year 2?

 

Those that we see as TOTM etc. Are almost all from experienced reefers.

 

That's a hard truth, unfortunately. Saving grace is that at least some newbie picos and nanos don't get to a critical point since the reefer has upsized to a larger system.

 

Here is one instance where size does actually matter in that a small pico or nano *can* deteriorate much more quickly than a more forgiving larger system when procedures are incorrect and/or insufficient. In this sense, a pico or nano can be considered more 'delicate' or 'less forgiving' and this is the justification read about in many publications for a larger tank for new reefers.

[jlangtree]

 

That's a hard truth, unfortunately. Saving grace is that at least some newbie picos and nanos don't get to that point since the reefer has upsized to a larger system.

 

Here is one instance where size does actually matter in that a small pico or nano *can* deteriorate much more quickly than a more forgiving larger system when procedures are incorrect and/or insufficient.

Totally agree with you, however it can also be reset a lot faster than its larger cousins.

 

 

How many beginner's nanos or picos make it to year 2?

 

Those that we see as TOTM etc. Are almost all from experienced reefers.

 

TOTM your probably correct.

 

However TOTM is not what we should be setting the benchmark as for a successful reef, as they are EXCEPTIONAL tanks and well above the norm.

[nanolutionary]

How many beginner's nanos or picos make it to year 2?

 

I've had my current setup running for about six months going strong, it's my first marine setup.

 

But I did a tanker load of research before like a good geek.

[Sunstar]

Without an ATO, I'd not be able to keep up with the amount of evap my 1.5 gallon makes. My living accommodations would not really suit a larger tank, although I am considering one.

 

They are less merciful to swings than my larger 10 gallon tank. I had my pico crash back in 2012 when my ATO tube slipped and fell into the tank causing a sypon refill cycle that turned the water brackish.

 

My pico is actually sitting on my desk, so I tend to spend hours watching the sand with a magnifying glass to watch the critters romping about.

 

With the pico there is little fish I can add to the tank, but it can really get pretty fast.

 

As far as maintenance. It's pretty easy. I make water for my 10 gallon, then take about 2 litres out on my largest change and a half litre on my smallest. I've basically just got over the new tank syndrome with my pico as I started it up mid jan.

 

I am considering starting a pico frag tank from a modified 10 gallon - it was cut down to a 5 gallon one year when I was dealing with a broken tank someone gave me. I have been cyling rock, sand and water in a container, that is heated... smelled vile, but has since improved.

 

I will say though, it is not necessarily cheaper for a small tank. As it stands I spent nearly 500 building mine, with lighting and whatnot + shipping. Prices for component parts such as dimmers, switches and the like adds up. I did get more out of the system learning the DYI side of things, gives me understanding how to fix it when things break down.

 

I admit this second time around I am more informed, more experienced. I really would like to see my pico go to year two. This year I may buy an air conditioner... that's the only thing I cannnot control: summer heat.

[ndrobey]

Since most Australians live near an ocean and you guys have the Great Barrier Reef, I would guess that keeping saltwater tanks is much easier than elsewhere. So I guess the issue is that "mine is bigger than yours".

[amphipod]

The "elite reefers" don't want competition, simple truth. Think if you were the only man on earth with a reef tank you would always have the best tank until someone comes in with competition.

[Amy]

I think there is room for all kinds of reefers weather its big or small we still should all be kind and helpful to each other.

[farkwar]

I think there is room for all kinds of reefers weather its big or small we still should all be kind and helpful to each other.

 

I don't think that was in question.

 

The question is should beginners be encouraged or discouraged from starting nano or pico reefs as their first tank?

[Nano sapiens]

Totally agree with you, however it can also be reset a lot faster than its larger cousins.

 

 

 

TOTM your probably correct.

 

However TOTM is not what we should be setting the benchmark as for a successful reef, as they are EXCEPTIONAL tanks and well above the norm.

 

While I agree with the idea that smaller tanks can be reset faster, if animals are lost because of frequent resets then we have a less than optimal situation, IMO. People who are new to this hobby often get conflicting and/or incorrect advice so the unfortunate cycle continues.

 

On an emotional level, a 'successful' reef aquarium is ultimately in the eye of the beholder. On a practical level, any tank that provides conditions suitable for health and growth over an extended period of time could be considered 'successful' and you are correct that it need not be 'TOTM' material.

[farkwar]

The "elite reefers" don't want competition, simple truth. Think if you were the only man on earth with a reef tank you would always have the best tank until someone comes in with competition.

I'll be honest, I consider myself an experienced reef hobbyist, and picos and small nano still scare me. Probably because I know how fast an even moderate sized system can go bad(from experience). I started before the Internet or Www was common, my information was garnered from books, magazines, and LFS advice, which was usually bad. LFS advice like buying a Sea Apple or mandarin that starved to death, or buying 3 snowflake eels that end up as carpet jerkey.

 

The vast majority of beginners who buy some NanoBioCube AIOs never come to places like this. I consider those beginners who research to hell and back before starting, like mentioned above, to be the exception (and exceptional).

 

For example, just doing a search for LED fixtures, you can find 5000+ different kinds of Chinese fixtures on AliBaba or eBay. That tells me, I can infer from that, that there are tons of thousands of uncountable reefers in China. Doing unthinkable (to us) things with reef tanks, and they are not here. (I know of one, disaster 999). Do they have Chinese versions of Nano Reef there. I don't know.

 

I do not consider myself an "elite" reefer by any means. And I don't know any. Its kinda a geek hobby anyway, it would be like being an elite Magic player, or elite larper, or elite steampunk cosplayer. Not really wanting to brag about such thing, myself even if true.

[farkwar]

While I agree with the idea that smaller tanks can be reset faster, if animals are lost because of frequent resets then we have a less than optimal situation, IMO. People who are new to this hobby often get conflicting and/or incorrect advice so the unfortunate cycle continues.

 

On an emotional level, a 'successful' reef aquarium is ultimately in the eye of the beholder. On a practical level, any tank that provides conditions suitable for health and growth over an extended period of time could be considered 'successful' and you are correct that it need not be 'TOTM' material.

Agree.

 

Pico brandon's one gallon reef made it past 12 years, iirc. Probably would never make a beauty contest winner.

 

My point about TOTM was more focused on that it takes time, experience, and successful husbandry. I seriously doubt many of them are first timers first tanks. I also think that they are attainable goals to aim for in this hobby, or should be before starting.

 

We never see the thousands of nanos and picos that crash at 6 or 12 months.

[Maniu]

Agree.

Pico brandon's one gallon reef made it past 12 years, iirc. Probably would never make a beauty contest winner.

My point about TOTM was more focused on that it takes time, experience, and successful husbandry. I seriously doubt many of them are first timers first tanks.

We never see the thousands of nanos and picos that crash at 6 or 12 months.

I have seen larger systems crash all the same. Even those by so called experienced reefers.

[farkwar]

I have seen larger systems crash all the same. Even those by so called experienced reefers.

Agree.

 

Oregon Reef crashed. From a stupid chain of decisions and actions. Not a noob.

 

Larger systems crash slower, that is known.

 

If you are saying that the number of experienced reefers with 40 gallon and larger tanks crashing is equal to the number of noobs with 10 gallon and smaller crashing. Anywhere close to equal, I disagree.

 

If you are implying that the number of inexperienced reefers with 40 gallons and larger tanks crashing is equal to inexperienced reefers with 10 gallons and smaller, I disagree with that as well.

 

 

I will say, I doubt seriously, that any real (not so called) experienced reefer doesn't have at least one crashed tank under their belt.

[WhiteWulfe]

Like others, one of the biggest parts of nano reefing that I find so interesting is that while the smaller volume of water brings about it's own set of challenges, it is noticeably easier to not only find somewhere to put the tank, but also not have to worry about what effects the full weight of the tank can have on the structure. Joys of living in a wood built apartment and on the second floor.

 

It's also a lot "easier" to justify spending a bit more on nicer corals, because one isn't trying to fill a large tank full of life so one can be somewhat choosier about what is put in.

 

I've wanted to look into a lot of the larger setups out there (40B, 75g, etc) but the limitations on where they can be put in my place (due to size mainly, but weight is also a consideration) add in alongside the sheer... happiness (for lack of a better word) that keeping a smaller ten or twenty gallon tank up and running not to mention looking nice makes smaller tanks a lot more interesting to me.

[Nano sapiens]

I will say, I doubt seriously, that any real (not so called) experienced reefer doesn't have at least one crashed tank under their belt.

 

I would agree with that statement.

 

Even for experienced reefers signs can be missed, simple human errors can happen, equipment can grossly malfunction or just plain complacency can set in (you know you're in trouble when you start feeling like this: "I am a reefing God and I can do no wrong!").