All-In-One Tanks...worth the extra $$$?

[newf99]

Wondering if these tanks are worth the premium paid...In many cases it seems cheaper to just do a sump rather than purchase one of these. For me to bring in a nuvo 30L fusion it would cost roughly 500 bones...there are 120 gallon tanks on sale in my area for 500 dollars.

[VW_TDI_02]

It just depends on what you want. Some people don't have space for a sump and would rather just have an AIO tank on their desk. Not to mention, the tanks are the cheapest part usually. I know my tank only cost me $35 but I've sunk $700+ dollars into it by now...

[Idaho ken]

Good question newf99, and good response VW. For me, space and ease was my goal. I've kept tanks with sumps, stuff hanging off the back, etc....and after my move and getting settled in to my new place, decided to try the Biocube 29. It was 300 bucks. I put another 100 into it, and am very happy. It's clean, compact, and exactly what I wanted ease and maintenance wise. It's more of a personal preference rather than how it operates in my opinion. Good luck!

[Admonition]

I agree with above, it's all personal preference. I did a Fusion 30L but only because I wanted an all in one in my apartment.

[Cameron6796]

You pay for the name and form not neccasar function. Both are just as good it's all what you can take care of and afford to stock and maintain

[Chadf]

When did aio's become more expensive than a sump setup?

[Ahanix]

I wrote, rewrote and eventually deleted my draft last night on this post. This is a pretty hard discussion that in the end really just comes down to personal preference.

 

You can achieve the exact same results with either, there are really only a couple noticeable "Benefits" over having an AIO

 

1- Most people with AIO's picked them because of their size - I picked up my Fusion 30L because that's the largest tank my apartment would allow

2- Aesthetically, for a smaller tank (30g and under) this is really the only appealing option - Personally all the HOB garbage they still sell is a huge eyesore and completely ruins a tank for me. If I was going to go for something this small with a sump, I would save for an ELOS.

 

3- Convenience. The fact that I can empty my skimmer cup, check my water level and change my filter pads at the top of my tank, and do a siphon to a bucket is a super nice feature. I do hate having to pour water in my tank after a water change though.

 

 

 

If I had a bigger tank, I would go with a sump a million times over, just to keep all the hardware hidden away - anything smaller than 40g I prefer an AIO any day.

[Idaho ken]

Ahanix,

 

Great post, well thought out! I hate pouring water back in my tank to, so, I went and got a small power head, with some tubing, and now use it to "pour" water in my tank lol.....takes the "splash" and "oh sh*t" out of putting fresh salt water back in the tank!!!

[newf99]

Very insightful responses. Right now I don't have room for a massive 100 gallon tank seeing as I live in a rental unit. The biggest I could install would be 55 gallons. My better half said she doesn't want anything any bigger than what I have now (29 tall). I'm probably going to go with the Fusion 30L but I some friends are giving me crap because they said for 500 dollars I could do a full sump setup far better.

 

 

I actually use an old powerhead and a rubber hose to do my water changes, so I don't have to pour water into the tank.

 

I'm like 75% sure I'll probably go with the Fusion 30L. The Fusion 40 looks good too, but given that I already have two Kessil A160s I think that the 30L may be a better fit.

[Ahanix]

Either one will utilize the light great. I have a 30L and absolutely love it, 40 would be awesome as well though!

[ReviloM]

Wondering if these tanks are worth the premium paid...In many cases it seems cheaper to just do a sump rather than purchase one of these. For me to bring in a nuvo 30L fusion it would cost roughly 500 bones...there are 120 gallon tanks on sale in my area for 500 dollars.

IMO, in theory, an AIO is the most effective unit. It pretty much similar to adding a canister filter that allows a skimmer to be placed in it. The water output is concentrated through the overflow so that every bit is filtered by carbon, GFO, biopellets, or even a skimmer. A traditional sump, has too much wiggle room for water to just flow around the skimmer and media/reactors which doesn't guarantee that it will filtered on the next go around as well. Most AIO's today lack the true potential because most are poorly designed. This is due to trying to cut corners to reduce costs. Either the media racks suck or other equipment that is specific for that AIO is lacking as well such as the specified skimmer unit. The costs are hyped costs. If Ecotech Marine chose to make an AIO tank using IMs design layout even though it has flaws, people would still buy it. Everyone knows or sees the issues the units have yet they will still disregard it because it appears to be the "it" item at the moment.

 

Disclaimer: This is purely my opinion and I am just a normal hobbyist. Happy Reefing!

[VW_TDI_02]

IMO, in theory, an AIO is the most effective unit. It pretty much similar to adding a canister filter that allows a skimmer to be placed in it. The water output is concentrated through the overflow so that every bit is filtered by carbon, GFO, biopellets, or even a skimmer. A traditional sump, has too much wiggle room for water to just flow around the skimmer and media/reactors which doesn't guarantee that it will filtered on the next go around as well. Most AIO's today lack the true potential because most are poorly designed. This is due to trying to cut corners to reduce costs. Either the media racks suck or other equipment that is specific for that AIO is lacking as well such as the specified skimmer unit. The costs are hyped costs. If Ecotech Marine chose to make an AIO tank using IMs design layout even though it has flaws, people would still buy it. Everyone knows or sees the issues the units have yet they will still disregard it because it appears to be the "it" item at the moment.

 

Disclaimer: This is purely my opinion and I am just a normal hobbyist. Happy Reefing!

I don't necessarily agree. A filter sock will filter all water going through the sump. A skimmer is also only going to use the amount of water that the pump allows it to use. This doesn't matter if it is located in a sump or in the back of a tank. Media reactors are the same way since they have a dedicated pump. Setting up a media reactor in the back of an AIO will pump the same amount of water as a media reactor set up in a sump.

[ReviloM]

I don't necessarily agree. A filter sock will filter all water going through the sump. A skimmer is also only going to use the amount of water that the pump allows it to use. This doesn't matter if it is located in a sump or in the back of a tank. Media reactors are the same way since they have a dedicated pump. Setting up a media reactor in the back of an AIO will pump the same amount of water as a media reactor set up in a sump.

I am trying to think of the easiest way to say this without losing most in thought. Consider the area of a sump vs an AIO area. Smaller space provides the greatest concentration to the media and equipment. It's not about location but about the size of the area being filtered. If the water was stationary, hands down a sump will win because of larger equipment and a non-moving body of water.

 

 

Yes, a sump can be filter by a filter sock just as an AIO can be filtered by a filter pad.

The same concentration of water in an AIO is next being filtered by the media. Because the area is small, most of the water has no choice but to go through the media. In a sump, because the area is greater, the water has no resistance and will effectively just go around the sides and some several inches above the intake for the pump. It is not as if all water in the sump is automatically directed to the skimmer. The water is not stationary. it is constantly flowing towards the back to the return pump.

 

For the media reactor, same thing. Water freely flows around the reactor because of the large area.

[Eckozulu]

I'm going back to the orginal question, price....

 

First, the fusion 30L is $350. Hard to beat. It is not "bare bones", it comes with a pump, media baskets, screen top, all plumbing, neoprene mat, and filter media. Most of us replace these, but it does come with it.

 

Second, it's rimless low iron glass. If you can find a rimless low iron glass tank/sump combo in that price range, you will also hear complaints about those, ie Cadlights and SC aquariums. But they are still more expensive.

 

So, I don't believe AIO are more expensive for what you are getting. Yes, you can get the $1 per gallon special for a sumped system, but that's more comparing apples to oranges. A better debate would be a cadlights/SC aquariums 50g to a fusion 40. I actually have both, and the fusion was cheaper.

[WhiteWulfe]

I'm going back to the orginal question, price....

 

First, the fusion 30L is $350. Hard to beat. It is not "bare bones", it comes with a pump, media baskets, screen top, all plumbing, neoprene mat, and filter media. Most of us replace these, but it does come with it.

 

If the OP is mentioning $500 for the price, I would potentially assume they're not in the United States. Up here in Canada, a local store is selling the Fusion 30 for $560 CAD normally, $452 CAD on sale. Add tax on top of that and you're in the $474.60-510.76 CAD price range (first number is Albertan tax at 5% GST only, second one assumes 13% HST)

 

I personally like that everything's contained in an AIO, and that alone might cause me to lean more towards an AIO versus a traditional tank with sump (I'm still deciding, but hope to buy a tank soon after living room is rearranged in mid-March).

[Eckozulu]

Can you guys buy from MD or BRS?

[ReviloM]

I'm going back to the orginal question, price....

 

First, the fusion 30L is $350. Hard to beat. It is not "bare bones", it comes with a pump, media baskets, screen top, all plumbing, neoprene mat, and filter media. Most of us replace these, but it does come with it.

 

Second, it's rimless low iron glass. If you can find a rimless low iron glass tank/sump combo in that price range, you will also hear complaints about those, ie Cadlights and SC aquariums. But they are still more expensive.

 

So, I don't believe AIO are more expensive for what you are getting. Yes, you can get the $1 per gallon special for a sumped system, but that's more comparing apples to oranges. A better debate would be a cadlights/SC aquariums 50g to a fusion 40. I actually have both, and the fusion was cheaper.

$350 for the tank with with all that is a great price but consider the quality of parts which aren't worth any part of that $350. The pump is fairly decent. I still use mine to this date because I only like the fact that it sucks from the bottom instead of the side. The media racks are laughable and encourage end users to only upgrade to the other "better" media rack. The design lacks and was rushed. The acrylic back wall bends ( I can attest to this). The so called low iron appears to be lesser green than standard glass but still contains more than true low iron glass. I broke the glass panel and compared it to the low iron glass I had re-cut from a glass shop and it is not the low-iron you think it is. As for the cover, it doesn't fit completely which defeats the purpose of the cover. Fish can easily jump through all sides. I was informed by IM that it was designed that way for cords but I see it wasn't tested properly.

 

The fusion 30L and 40G are pretty much the same tank. A better debate is the cost for their unit complete with stand vs the cost of the SCA and Cadlights full setup. I can tell you now that the 50G can be bought at $569 shipped from SCA which comes with everything you need except a light.

 

 

If the OP is mentioning $500 for the price, I would potentially assume they're not in the United States. Up here in Canada, a local store is selling the Fusion 30 for $560 CAD normally, $452 CAD on sale. Add tax on top of that and you're in the $474.60-510.76 CAD price range (first number is Albertan tax at 5% GST only, second one assumes 13% HST)

 

I personally like that everything's contained in an AIO, and that alone might cause me to lean more towards an AIO versus a traditional tank with sump (I'm still deciding, but hope to buy a tank soon after living room is rearranged in mid-March).

He talking price for tank and stand.

 

 

 

 

I would suggest the OP to continue to research further as he is doing now.

[Eckozulu]

I hear you Oliver. The bowing is annoying, but mine is no where near as bad as yours. As far as the equipment, doesn't matter what tank I get I end up switching everything out anyway. I hated the cadlights return and the plumbing was a nightmare to redo. The glass tops from cad has bigger gaps than the screen from IM. I need to try out sc aquariums, I just have a stand from them, and it's on par with cad.

 

I still don't think AIO are more expensive. I think style and quality are what drive prices.

[ReviloM]

I hear you Oliver. The bowing is annoying, but mine is no where near as bad as yours. As far as the equipment, doesn't matter what tank I get I end up switching everything out anyway. I hated the cadlights return and the plumbing was a nightmare to redo. The glass tops from cad has bigger gaps than the screen from IM. I need to try out sc aquariums, I just have a stand from them, and it's on par with cad.

 

I still don't think AIO are more expensive. I think style and quality are what drive prices.

Marquise is actually my first name. IMO Hype drives prices more than quality. The basic equipment of a tank should be functional as intended and at the price it is offered there shouldn't be a need to upgrade parts unless you want to. The point is that you have to with those tanks like the media racks for example. It's a forceful upgrade to invest more money into their company.

 

I gutted that tank and just made it into a rimless glass box which is just sitting storage because I was so dissatisfied with how much money was wasted on that tank. The customer service from IM in regards to the matter took it over the top.

 

 

 

I, personally, like the SCA tanks because of the price and what is offered in that price. The tank alone is top notch and satisfies my style.My first tank, I called and got a better deal than what was offered on the site which is what I liked about the company. They will work with you because they want your business. With my current SCA 50g, they accidentally forgot to add my upgraded 302 skimmer which only costed me $30 more. So to compensate, they sent me the skimmer whilst letting me keep the old one that originally came with the package.

[newf99]

Marquise is actually my first name. IMO Hype drives prices more than quality. The basic equipment of a tank should be functional as intended and at the price it is offered there shouldn't be a need to upgrade parts unless you want to. The point is that you have to with those tanks like the media racks for example. It's a forceful upgrade to invest more money into their company.

 

I gutted that tank and just made it into a rimless glass box which is just sitting storage because I was so dissatisfied with how much money was wasted on that tank. The customer service from IM in regards to the matter took it over the top.

 

 

 

I, personally, like the SCA tanks because of the price and what is offered in that price. The tank alone is top notch and satisfies my style.My first tank, I called and got a better deal than what was offered on the site which is what I liked about the company. They will work with you because they want your business. With my current SCA 50g, they accidentally forgot to add my upgraded 302 skimmer which only costed me $30 more. So to compensate, they sent me the skimmer whilst letting me keep the old one that originally came with the package.

 

I live in St. John's, Newfoundland. To bring in a Nuvo fusion 30L the tank alone will cost me close to 500 dollars.

Can you guys buy from MD or BRS?

 

I believe yes. But shipping and Canada customs pretty much defeat the purpose. We end up paying waaaay more than what we should.

[ReviloM]

 

I live in St. John's, Newfoundland. To bring in a Nuvo fusion 30L the tank alone will cost me close to 500 dollars.

 

I believe yes. But shipping and Canada customs pretty much defeat the purpose. We end up paying waaaay more than what we should.

oh, that is even worse. Ever tried the DIY route?

[Simplicity]

I've had both an AIO and sumped system and I prefer a sump. I just like the expandability of a sumped system. I also don't like the dimensions of the current AIO tanks on the market right now and custom is to expensive for me.

 

I actually priced out an Innovative Marine Fusion 40 while considering what I wanted to be my next tank but it only came out to be about $200 less than a 60 cube (which is what I'm going with).

[newf99]

oh, that is even worse. Ever tried the DIY route?

 

I saw a DIY nano tank that Mike Paletta did on Americanreef youtube channel. It looked pretty cool but the host said not to copy it because the final design was far different than what was showcased in the video. There isn't a whole lot here to choose from in terms of used glass either so I feel like I'll be better off just ordering something in. So far the Nuvo seems to fit the bill but it kills me to have to drop 500 on a tank with no stand. I'll have to sell my current skimmer (reef octopus bh90) and get the nuvo ghost skimmer so that is another couple hundred bones.

 

I'm still researching but at moment still leaning towards the fusion 30L. There is no rush but I would like to have it up and running by June. I would like something larger than 30 gallons but 50 is definitely the biggest I could go due to space constraints. As for sumps they are nice but to build a sump and stand seems way too much $$$ and work for my current situation. I'd rather just buy an AIO and have it done with. The starphire systems do look nice but I'd imagine shipping to Canada would cost a fortune.

[michaelrzachmann]

what about the JBJs?

[WhiteWulfe]

what about the JBJs?

 

newf99 would be looking at $519.99 CAD before freight for a JBJ 45 rimless (using pricing from petsandponds.com as one of the closer ones to the Maritimes), but freight is listed as "contact us" and since he's in the Maritimes shipping costs can get expensive quick. $399.99 CAD for the JBJ 30 gallon before freight.