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Ceramic media, more bad than good?


Odobenus rosmarus

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Odobenus rosmarus

I have ceramic media for my Aquaclear filters and people are saying that its more bad than good but i don't know how thats possible? I understand why people choose not to use it and use different media like carbon and phosphate media but i don't see how it can do more bad than good?

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+1 if you have a good amount of live rock there's no need for ceramic media. All your beneficial bacteria reside within and on the rock. Sure they can live on the ceramic media too, but there's just no point. I wouldn't say it's really a matter or more harm than good, as much as it is a risk vs. reward. It Really provides no benefit, and has serious potential drawbacks. More risk than reward IMO

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  • 4 weeks later...

traps detritus and lets it rots making a nitrate trap. theres no use for ceramic media as live rock is your bio media.

Your maintenance plan needs to take into consideration all of the things that you are using. Detritus can be trapped quite well in your live rock, so this is not a problem that is exclusive to any particular biological medium. Also, there is a lot more surface area on ceramic media, so it might be good for someone's setup.

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Your maintenance plan needs to take into consideration all of the things that you are using. Detritus can be trapped quite well in your live rock, so this is not a problem that is exclusive to any particular biological medium. Also, there is a lot more surface area on ceramic media, so it might be good for someone's setup.

actually the ceramic media will trap more, in live rock we have detritus eating creatures (brittle stars and bristle worms for example)

 

we also (for the most part) get increased flow through live rock that we dont get in ceramic media.

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actually the ceramic media will trap more, in live rock we have detritus eating creatures (brittle stars and bristle worms for example)

 

we also (for the most part) get increased flow through live rock that we dont get in ceramic media.

 

It seems like you have the same issue with ceramic media as you would with live rock. Eventually all the pores will be clogged and without flow detritus will build up on, in, and around live rock just like anything else. Detritivores are going to go where the food is, if that's in the ceramic filter media that's where they will go.

 

It would seem like the ceramic could be equivalent to LR, but from a cleaning perspective you can remove the ceramic easier and shake it around to get the crud out of it.

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another way to see it is based on need

 

the only time extra surface area is needed above what is in tank is when a given bioload that it cant sustain and it registers constant ammonia. another reason is water polishing, but thats rare for marine tanks as we like suspendeds.

 

if you took any ceramic filter offline, any average reef tank would still run unabated.

 

their use is mainly a carry over from f w hobby practice, not from real need but from everyone puts a filter on a tank i alone have owned 200 canisters over the wal mart bearing years active aquarium nerd 1985-pre

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i remember reading that article, to me its not any new info. where he says nobody critiqued an aquarium w too much surface area thats not a fact, any searching on here alone w find it mentioned by us prob as far back as 2004.

 

it was neat he voiced some detraction in a popular blog setting though, its a rare argument agreed. i didnt see his writing as an attack on brs just another tech challenge that keeps the hobby moving and thinking

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CronicReefer

I use two kinds of ceramic media but I have thick fiber pads before the ceramic to prevent any detritus from clogging them. I would say I keep a high bioload so the ceramic media works great for this but isn't necessary if your rocks and sand can suffice.

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agreed.

 

in that article i was having a hard time telling if he's against or pro stance regarding that media...but it came to mind that small pore media that does real denitrification, not the trumped up stuff of live rock legends but real measurable nitrate degassing, is worth consideration.

 

on that mark, there is no repeatable way to arrange biologically natural elements of our tank to get repeatable denitrification. what we read about was overstated, and i think some of the peer reviewed stuff was really firm on live rocks ability to reduce nitrate, not produce it copiously as it does.

 

we all got sold on live rock and live sand denit about 15 yrs ago. what do people do nowadays

 

biopellets

ats

heavy export

plant binding

 

but no more dsb or live rock berlin systems w zero nitrate and fish. sure there are 1 or 2 off examples, but the trend didnt favor that because thats not the resounding outcome. the resounding outcome of extra surface area in any arrangement is nitrate and some p04.

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That is probably the limitation that we will always have in our tiny, closed systems. The advancements will always probably revolve around binding and export. I may still give ceramic bio media a try, though. I'm planning on adding a sunsun UV canister filter to my IM Fusion 20, and I might put some ceramic rings in there. We'll see.


I also really wonder about the efficacy of filter pads that are placed before the ceramic media. If we are really concerned about clogged pores, then the filter pad would have to be very restrictive and probably at the sub-micron range. You'll keep large bits from collecting, but that doesn't stop finer particles from getting trapped.

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I have ceramic media for my Aquaclear filters and people are saying that its more bad than good but i don't know how thats possible? I understand why people choose not to use it and use different media like carbon and phosphate media but i don't see how it can do more bad than good?

 

Depends on which type of ceramic media. A lot of types disintegrate (well that's very normal, even live rock will see some disintegration), but some will get into the water and well, just float around being annoying. Most 'cheapo' ceramic rings in fact will do this, and I've seen this so many times. But not all ceramics do.

 

Ceramics such as Marine Pure does disintegrate upon friction, but otherwise remain stable indefnitely. Plus depending on what type of ceramics - or biological filter media actually, the amount of microbes and what type is harboured will differ. Not all biological filter media are 'nitrate factories'. Nitrate factories are stuff that sees more nitrates being produced than is consumed, basically. Either a large amount of biological filter media or those that have a large surface area to volume ratio (essentially you just need a lot of surface) that has denitrification capacity will allow nitrate to be lowered at the same rate as it is produced.

 

Marine Pure, again, has this capacity. :D

 

Have a look at my aquarium setup, I have Marine Pure and nitrates keep coming down, even during the cycle.

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I read their links and claims and see no reason to deny it. they are selling what biopellets sell, micropore housing for true NNR. the issue was getting that action from any type of live rock or live sand arrangement repeatably, but this is specialized media which I consider to be developed beyond the ceramic ring/typical high surface area biomedia. they seem to have written that as well, this seems to be an exact option to biopellets just another make and design. seem like a neat product. biopellets are using a micropore plastic vs this ceramic setup same ends it seems.

 

Good catch edit for Steve below on pellets generating the food source so that more than normal amnts of bacteria are present to take up excesses n and p

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I read their links and claims and see no reason to deny it. they are selling what biopellets sell, micropore housing for true NNR. the issue was getting that action from any type of live rock or live sand arrangement repeatably, but this is specialized media which I consider to be developed beyond the ceramic ring/typical high surface area biomedia. they seem to have written that as well, this seems to be an exact option to biopellets just another make and design. seem like a neat product. biopellets are using a micropore plastic vs this ceramic setup same ends it seems.

Yep. Though I guess the difference is that biopellets eventually need replacing (right?), whilst Marine Pure act more like live rock and sorta just... remains.

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Odobenus rosmarus

So far (2.5 months with the media) things are going great in the tank. Realizing that ceramic media has the potential to clog and become "nitrate factories" I've been proactive with my maintenance by removing the ceramic media (which i have mixed with LR rubble) and washing it in tank water every other water change. My nitrates/phosphates/everything else is 0ppm and I haven't encountered anything but good outcomes with the ceramic media. Although I'm actually planning to remove the ceramic media and LR rubble from my filtration for a few reasons. I don't like how much space it takes up and its a bit of a pain having to take the extra time to clean it when I could use something more effective and less hassle like biopellets. Here is a picture of my tank though, currently using ceramic media and LR rubble as my primary filtration.

 

 

 

post-86970-0-77660800-1427422533_thumb.jpg

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So far (2.5 months with the media) things are going great in the tank. Realizing that ceramic media has the potential to clog and become "nitrate factories" I've been proactive with my maintenance by removing the ceramic media (which i have mixed with LR rubble) and washing it in tank water every other water change. My nitrates/phosphates/everything else is 0ppm and I haven't encountered anything but good outcomes with the ceramic media. Although I'm actually planning to remove the ceramic media and LR rubble from my filtration for a few reasons. I don't like how much space it takes up and its a bit of a pain having to take the extra time to clean it when I could use something more effective and less hassle like biopellets. Here is a picture of my tank though, currently using ceramic media and LR rubble as my primary filtration.

 

 

 

 

Just a note, but you don't actually have to clean off the detritus build-up. Nitrate produced by the detritus would be used up anyways. I never once took out the Marine Pure to clean in the six months I've had it in.

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Note that biopellets serve a different purpose than ceramic or other highly-porous media. Biopellets serve as a release of carbon into the tank to promote the proliferation of bacteria, while the ceramic media simply provides a place for bacteria to colonize on.

 

I don't like how much space it takes up and its a bit of a pain having to take the extra time to clean it when I could use something more effective and less hassle like biopellets.

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CronicReefer

I'd keep the ceramic media. And you don't have to clean it that often, really you only need to clean it if it has detritus building up on it which it shouldn't if you have enough fiber filter before the ceramic. IF you do decide to remove it make sure you do small amounts at a time over the course of a month so you don't upset your biofilter.

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  • 1 month later...

Got a 8x8x4 block of Marine Pure. Just testing not sure how well it will do, but if you never see one of these its quite a product. Definitely can replace 5x worth of volume of life rock.

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If you have good mechanical filtration, there shouldn't be too much detritus caught in the ceramic plugs. If you have a good amount of sand and rock, then these will just add more of what you already have, but that can't be bad. Just treat them like any other media - when you do water changes or maintenance, take them out and give them a quick rinse, just in case. It'll be fine.

 

The whole point of all this is to give your bacteria a good home with lots of surface area to grow and have access to the water and the stuff within.

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  • 7 months later...

I don´t understand why people say that ceramic chamber is a factory of nitrate.

I think if you don´t take the detritus out by mechanical methods, then the detritus would accumulate in another area producing nitrate as well.

So I think if you are not going to take the detritus out by skimming or other way so I don´t see the problem in using ceramics.

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I don´t understand why people say that ceramic chamber is a factory of nitrate.

I think if you don´t take the detritus out by mechanical methods, then the detritus would accumulate in another area producing nitrate as well.

So I think if you are not going to take the detritus out by skimming or other way so I don´t see the problem in using ceramics.

 

It's the old way of thinking. People stuck in their ways. Live rock is horribly inefficient at nutrient export. I use very minimal rock on my scape and have 3L of seachem matrix in my sump. I have it after my filter socks which all water is forced to go through which keeps my sump pretty damn clean.

 

I seeded with prodibio and I am no longer running any reactors of any kind. The prodibio bacteria is doing nitrification, de-nitrification with a carbon source via coral snow and also eating up my phosphates. Stuff has been awesome for me and my SPS so never going back to the other methods.

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Odobenus rosmarus

 

It's the old way of thinking. People stuck in their ways. Live rock is horribly inefficient at nutrient export. I use very minimal rock on my scape and have 3L of seachem matrix in my sump. I have it after my filter socks which all water is forced to go through which keeps my sump pretty damn clean.

 

I seeded with prodibio and I am no longer running any reactors of any kind. The prodibio bacteria is doing nitrification, de-nitrification with a carbon source via coral snow and also eating up my phosphates. Stuff has been awesome for me and my SPS so never going back to the other methods.

 

Could you tell me more about prodibio? I am currently setting up a 2.5 gallon pico for SPS. Originally I was going to do a bare bottom tank using a pico biopellet reactor and skimmer (an experiment) but the method you're using sounds appealing. I looked it up and there is a Prodibio nano kit. What additives other than coral snow do you use, and how much and how often do you dose?

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Every tank runs different.

 

My rock is pristine right now, I am running carbon/gfo in a reactor + skimmer + filter sock and minimal rock work.

 

Use what works for you, watch your tank, it will tell you.

 

I used to have matrix which is for similar reasons as ceramic but I didn't need it, so I removed it.

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