RayWhisperer Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ok, no matter what I read, I just can't get all this mumbo jumbo to stick in my head. So, you are all gonna do it for me. I wanna light a tank with a 24"x24" footprint. Tank is 30" tall. I want a nice, clean looking fixture, since it's rimless. This has limited it to just a few builds. I'm pretty well fixed on the ASIS 810 from CNC reef. Here is the thing. I need very high light across the entire footprint of the tank. None of this blasting the center with numbers dropping off rapidly just inches off center. This is a high light planted tank, so I need high light all the way across it. Now as for the led's.... Would I be better with a few 50 or 100 watt chips? How many? Or am I going with a bunch of individual stars? Link to comment
evilc66 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Don't bother with those crappy Chinese 50/100W LEDs. If you are going to do it, do it right. Pony up for either Bridgelux Vero's, or Cree CXA arrays. Both are available in high kelvin, high CRI options. Something like 4 Vero 13's at 500mA should do it. These are 90 CRI, 5000K LEDs kicking out 1663lm each. If you don't feel that's enough, then the Vero 18's at 500mA kick out 3230lm each. That would put you north of 250W MH levels at half the power consumption. You can of course crank the current higher than that to get way more output if need be. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 With the Vero 18, as well, you can get a higher color temperature (5700K) with the same 90CRI (which is good). The Vero 10 and Vero 13 are limited to 5000K with 90CRI. Those bitches are BEASTS with output. You want high light? You can slap high light in the face and get SUPER ULTRA light. Link to comment
farkwar Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 You have a square area to light. And you have a rectangular light fixture. But you want the whole square area lit evenly. Correct? Link to comment
evilc66 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 So, do you want to suggest where he can get a DIY heatsink that is at least 10" square? The alternative would be two of the ASIS heatsinks, but that's a buttload of money. I'm sure he can compromise on a little but of unevenness in the lighting distribution. Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Ok, I like the price of those over the chips I was looking at. $12-15 is much more budget friendly. The Cree's seem to be a bit more, but only a few bucks more. Now, these seem to be beastly high light sources. Will a 810 be able to effectively cool them? How many will I need? 2, 4, 6, I dunno nothing.... I'm an absolute moron when it comes to this. Also, I plan on keeping fish. So, I was thinking about throwing a few color led's in to give the fish some bling. I don't mind adding another cheap driver on the bill for that. However, is the heatsink gonna handle it? As for the square area / rectangular light. Evil has it right. I'm not saying I need full power all the way across. I just need a lot of power all the way across. I look at the graphs for lights like the radion xr15, or whatever it's called. At 24" you get about 6 or 8" of really high light. By 16 to 18" wide it's pretty much useless. The 810 gives me a wider area to work with as opposed to a single 3" cluster, or however big it is. I'm hoping it'll be sufficient. Link to comment
Benny314 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Mount the ASIS heat sink at the front edge of the tank tipping back, so pointing the light into the middle of the tank. This way the 'cones' of light produced by the LEDs won't over spill but instead start and the front of the tank and cast light evenly back with the dead centre being the highest intensity. It does mean your fixture isn't level, but its compromise to avoid compromise if that makes sense. Just a thought. Link to comment
Benny314 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Like this, I have way too much time on my hands........................ Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Like this, I have way too much time on my hands........................ Actually, far less light would enter the tank that way and would instead be reflected away by the water's surface. Link to comment
Benny314 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Would it? Well never mind then lol. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Ok, I like the price of those over the chips I was looking at. $12-15 is much more budget friendly. The Cree's seem to be a bit more, but only a few bucks more. Now, these seem to be beastly high light sources. Will a 810 be able to effectively cool them? How many will I need? 2, 4, 6, I dunno nothing.... I'm an absolute moron when it comes to this. Also, I plan on keeping fish. So, I was thinking about throwing a few color led's in to give the fish some bling. I don't mind adding another cheap driver on the bill for that. However, is the heatsink gonna handle it? As for the square area / rectangular light. Evil has it right. I'm not saying I need full power all the way across. I just need a lot of power all the way across. I look at the graphs for lights like the radion xr15, or whatever it's called. At 24" you get about 6 or 8" of really high light. By 16 to 18" wide it's pretty much useless. The 810 gives me a wider area to work with as opposed to a single 3" cluster, or however big it is. I'm hoping it'll be sufficient. CNCreef rates the Asis 810 as having a thermal capacity of 150w. Four Vero 18 at 500mA is over 1700lm each, consuming around 14 watts each. Pumped up to 1A, that brings them to around 3400lm and 30 watts each. You'll pass light speed and go straight to ludicrous speed. The Radion XR15 LED PCB is less than 3.5" wide. With a 10" long heatsink, I'd guess from the drawings on the CNCreef site that the inside working area is around 8" or so. Even pushing the outer two LEDs as far out as they can go, you will be covering more than the Radion would, but not quite enough for even coverage end to end. I would have recommended the 618. Would it? Well never mind then lol. Yes, as the angle increases, so does light penetration, so as it decreases, well, you know, and less penetration is bad Link to comment
farkwar Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 So, do you want to suggest where he can get a DIY heatsink that is at least 10" square? The alternative would be two of the ASIS heatsinks, but that's a buttload of money. I'm sure he can compromise on a little but of unevenness in the lighting distribution. http://www.heatsinkusa.com/12-000/ http://www.heatsinkusa.com/10-000/ It was his prerequisite, not mine. That's why I asked, to discover his level of need or of compromise. And, just when, exactly, did I piss in your cornflakes? Because I missed it. If you don't like reading my stuff put me on ignore. Link to comment
Benny314 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Well with what your saying about light output on these bad ass chips, limited penetration would probably not be a bad thing lol. Be interested in seeing the finished array mind. I like the look of those heat sinks too. Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Lol. I don't think Evil meant anything by it. Perhaps you buzzed over it in my initial post. I stated that since this tank was rimless, I wanted a nice clean looking fixture. That's kinda why I'm leaning heavy on the ASIS 810. Ben. I figured the 6 series would be too narrow, to broadcast light well front to back. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Lol. I don't think Evil meant anything by it. Perhaps you buzzed over it in my initial post. I stated that since this tank was rimless, I wanted a nice clean looking fixture. That's kinda why I'm leaning heavy on the ASIS 810. Ben. I figured the 6 series would be too narrow, to broadcast light well front to back. Very true, but were you planning on running more than one row of LEDs? I kinda thought you were looking at left to right full coverage, but also front to back means you'll need more than one row. The 810 heatsink appears to give approximately 6"x8" on the inside for LEDs. Big square is the tank footprint, top down. Approximate spread from the front, no optics, LEDs 8" above the tank. Approximate spread from the side, no optics, LEDs 8" above the tank. Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Just how much of that light is going to have enough punch for high light plants? Will any of it be enough without optics at 38" above the bottom of the tank? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Just how much of that light is going to have enough punch for high light plants? Will any of it be enough without optics at 38" above the bottom of the tank? Well, according to hoppy (from TPT and APC) PAR calculator, it shows you'd have over 100 PAR on the bottom, but his calculator wasn't really made for CoBs. The Ledil Brooke reflectors (top notch quality) will fit the Vero 18 die, the widest they have is 50 degree. Here are some PAR measurements of a Bridgelux BXRA 1350 at an amp, which is around 2700 lumens (compared to the 3400lm of the Vero 18 at an amp). No optics, 24" distance, tank in the pic is a 24x24 footprint. 50 degree Brooke reflector, 24" distance Here is the coverage of that Doing some math to get to 38" distance, the middle reading would be 58 PAR instead of 146. Adding in another five diodes within a few inches will bump that number up significantly. Link to comment
blasterman Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 LED's don't radiate in perfect 120 degree triangles. Most of their light in focused in a 70-80 degree fuzzy cone. This is a high light planted tank, so I need high light all the way across it. Since we're talking about plants and not corals I assume this is freshwater, correct? Not an expert on FW plants, but if memory serves the high end lighting requirements for freshwater are around 5watt per gallon of 5000-6000k light and a standard ratio rectangular tank. Cubes are more efficient in terms of light concentration, so 50-75watts of white LED should be more than sufficient. Any more and you'll likely just exhaust your day light cycle and have to run the lights for less time. The Bridgelux Vero's are cheaper per lumen than any of the Chinese crap. Not even going to waste internet packets arguing what Evil and I are sick of trying to explain. 4x Vero 13 should work fine. Although custom reflectors are tough to find for the vero, you can use the Ledil BXRA reflectors and a bit of glue to make ad-hoc reflectors. Bare LED's will spill a lot of annoying light unless you have a baffle. The Vero's have to have a tight splash shield. The silcone used in the latest Bridgelux arrays does not tolerate humidity like the old stuff did. For white light only applications I'm increasingly using Philips Fortimo line arrays because you don't need a heat sink, but they are tough to find. 3x Philips 12" 2200lumen Fortimo lines would look bad ass over a freshwater tank because you could make the light have a 1/2 height profile and that would practically vanish in mid air if suspended, but they come and go from the market. Link to comment
farkwar Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Just a heatsink with splashshield. Sexy light. Very very easy to make. Link to comment
farkwar Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Perhaps you buzzed over it in my initial post. I stated that since this tank was rimless, I wanted a nice clean looking fixture.I have a 24x24 rimless myself. I have spent countless hours mulling the very same question. Eventually, I went with the 2 foot Vertex Illumina. You do NOT need a CNC router or mill to work aluminum. If you can use a router on wood, its easier to rout aluminum. Into any shape you like. It has no grain, and cuts like frozen butter with a carbide bit and competent router and competent craftsman. If you were to make something like the Sicce light, you'll need to rout acrylic, that's harder to rout than aluminum. Link to comment
farkwar Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 And then there is airsoft's 'radiator'. He has slick endcaps, just not posting for brevity. It comes in a 5" wide, the 10" wide (just 2 side by side). I can get his contact information if you PM. He's in the Ukraine. And Russia is at war with them at this time. United Nations collective thumbs in butts, per usual. And he doesn't do Paypal, so deal with him at your own risk. Nice super sexy heatsink though, after you strip it and anodize it your custom colors. http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/352363-creative-minds-needed/?hl=heatsink#entry4853737 Check out CrazyEyes' thread. He used aluminum C channel to trim his fixture. I like its industrial sexiness. http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/352363-creative-minds-needed/?hl=heatsink#entry4853737 About a year ago I put together a list of good looking heatsinks or heatsink fixtures. Its down in the bowels or archives of the site by now. RapidLED has several nice looking heatsinks available. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 LED's don't radiate in perfect 120 degree triangles. Most of their light in focused in a 70-80 degree fuzzy cone. Just a generalization of it Did a bit of a double take when I looked at notifications and your name was on there, been a while since you've been around! Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 And then there is airsoft's 'radiator'. He has slick endcaps, just not posting for brevity. It comes in a 5" wide, the 10" wide (just 2 side by side). I can get his contact information if you PM. He's in the Ukraine. And Russia is at war with them at this time. United Nations collective thumbs in butts, per usual. And he doesn't do Paypal, so deal with him at your own risk. Nice super sexy heatsink though, after you strip it and anodize it your custom colors. http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/352363-creative-minds-needed/?hl=heatsink#entry4853737 Check out CrazyEyes' thread. He used aluminum C channel to trim his fixture. I like its industrial sexiness. http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/352363-creative-minds-needed/?hl=heatsink#entry4853737 About a year ago I put together a list of good looking heatsinks or heatsink fixtures. Its down in the bowels or archives of the site by now. RapidLED has several nice looking heatsinks available. I won't be ordering something from the Ukraine.I will check out those c channels. That may be an option. I looked at rapid led and didn't see anything in the size I was looking for. I did see heatsinks for bio cubes and the like. Link to comment
mcblablabla Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Just a heatsink with splashshield. Sexy light. Very very easy to make. Hello Farkwar, do you have a direct link to 3reef.com for the description of this splashshield? Thanks, Gerd Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Hello Farkwar, do you have a direct link to 3reef.com for the description of this splashshield? Thanks, Gerd They are made by Sicce. http://sicceus.com/led_lighting.html Link to comment
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