Need help

[talebi]

Hello guys,

 

I got 34 gallon Marin tank, i have big issue with my aquarium water for NO3 and NO2 is really high

 

My tank Information :

 

Age : 3 Month

Fish : 3 fish ( last night one of my nemo also gone so left only 2)

 

Size : width : 60 cm, height: 49 cm, Dep: 40 cm ( 34 Gallon )

 

Skimmer : Reef Octopus BH 2000

 

Water Change : every Friday

 

 

I do vodka dosage and its almost to 8 days, but nothing change in my No3 and No2 ...

 

Actually i got external filter and its working fine with my tank ...

 

Any one can help me to reduce my no3

 

thanks

[CronicReefer]

How often do you clean your external filter and what products are you using for filtration? To still be having NO2 after 3 months suggests the bioload is too high in the tank. How quickly did you add these three fish after your tank cycled? Vodka dosing is something that can take a very long time before you start seeing any results so don't be discouraged after only 8 days. It took me about 2 months before I saw anything in my tank with vodka dosing. More frequent water changes, cleaning of sand bed/rocks, and feeding less will all help you reduce the waste in the tank quickly.

[talebi]

thanks for reply ,

 

1- I'm cleaning my external filter two week one time .

 

2- For filter media im using : Ceramic Ring, Filter Sponge , Black Sponge ,Activated carbon .

How often do you clean your external filter and what products are you using for filtration? To still be having NO2 after 3 months suggests the bioload is too high in the tank. How quickly did you add these three fish after your tank cycled? Vodka dosing is something that can take a very long time before you start seeing any results so don't be discouraged after only 8 days. It took me about 2 months before I saw anything in my tank with vodka dosing. More frequent water changes, cleaning of sand bed/rocks, and feeding less will all help you reduce the waste in the tank quickly.

[Bingo1213]

How often do you clean your external filter and what products are you using for filtration? To still be having NO2 after 3 months suggests the bioload is too high in the tank. How quickly did you add these three fish after your tank cycled? Vodka dosing is something that can take a very long time before you start seeing any results so don't be discouraged after only 8 days. It took me about 2 months before I saw anything in my tank with vodka dosing. More frequent water changes, cleaning of sand bed/rocks, and feeding less will all help you reduce the waste in the tank quickly.

Plus one on the vodka it took me almost 4 months to see good results!! Patience is key in this hobby! Also get rid of the ceramic rings, they just trap detritus and become nitrate factories. Also rinse your sponges multiple times a week if you are going to use them. Some people ditch them all together due to the fact they become nitrate factories unless maintained perfectly!

[talebi]

Plus one on the vodka it took me almost 4 months to see good results!! Patience is key in this hobby! Also get rid of the ceramic rings, they just trap detritus and become nitrate factories. Also rinse your sponges multiple times a week if you are going to use them. Some people ditch them all together due to the fact they become nitrate factories unless maintained perfectly!

 

Thanks for your advise,

 

What is the best media for external filter ?

 

Do you think i can remove all the media and replace it with new one ?

 

Thanks

[Bingo1213]

Honestly I would use things such as carbon, perigean, or phosgaurd. Those seem to do well in those conditions. As a whole canister filters are usually thought of as a nitrate factory but if they are cleaned often and have the right media, I feel they can be useful!

[CronicReefer]

If you are going to remove the bio-media from your canister filter do not do it all at once. Bio-media is not usually necessary when you are using ample amounts of live rock so removing it should not hurt you in the long run as long as you do it slowly over 2-3 weeks. I use a canister filter myself and I make sure to clean it out once a week with my water change along with cleaning the filter pads that I usually replace every 3-4 weeks. Mine is a 4-stage filter so I have it setup like this (I use all Brightwell Aquatics products + Algone):

 

Stage 1: Filter Pad (to trap detritus/debris)

Stage 2: Xport-Bio both sides (removes ammonia/nitrite)

Stage 3: Xport-NO3 on right side (removes nitrate), Algone on left side (removes ammonia/nitrate)

Stage 4: ExtraxPhos on right side (removes phosphate) , IonitR mixed with NitratR on left side (removes dissolved organics/toxins/nitrate)

 

This allows me to feed frozen food daily/keep a larger bioload without having any excess nutrients leftover in my tank.

[Benny314]

Canisters must be stripped and cleaned regularly including washing out the canister its self.

 

Over here in the UK a lot of people put live rock rubble in their external canister filters with some filter wool to 'polish' the water and chemical media such as rowaphos and the like as already suggested.

Again when you do a water change the canister needs to be stripped down, Live rock rubble washed through with old tank water to flush the waste build up out of it (don't use fresh/RO water on the rock rubble as this will kill the bacteria) and the canister washed out.

 

How much live rock have you got in your display? It looks like tonga branches.

Very cool, but also very dense and heavy so don't provide very good filtration as there are not as many micro pours and holes for bacteria to colonise deep in the rock.

 

While it is possible to and many people do successfully keep marine systems on external canister filters, they are a lot more work to maintain than running a sump.
Sumped systems still need maintenance and cleaning, but they don't trap waste the same way and you can keep macro algae's in a lit area which will absorb NO3 and PO4. NO2 is broken down by bacteria colonising deep in the live rock, which as I have said, if your rock is very dense it will not host as much bacteria and you need to find an alternative way of supporting it.

 

Finally, how much are you feeding?

Bear in mind a fishes stomach is about the size of its eye as a rough guide.

This means you don't have to feed much to keep you fish happy. Fish will continue to take food even when they are full, but they will not be swallowing it, it just comes back out of their gills as a fine powder and pollutes the tank.

Also in marine tanks most fish will graze on the live rock and the tiny creatures that live on it between meals, I know people (me included) try and feed little and often, but I know others who feed every other day with no ill affects. Only 2 fish and not much in the way of coral etc won't need much feeding.

[talebi]

Honestly I would use things such as carbon, perigean, or phosgaurd. Those seem to do well in those conditions. As a whole canister filters are usually thought of as a nitrate factory but if they are cleaned often and have the right media, I feel they can be useful!

 

@Bingo, any way thanks for ur suggestion

 

 

If you are going to remove the bio-media from your canister filter do not do it all at once. Bio-media is not usually necessary when you are using ample amounts of live rock so removing it should not hurt you in the long run as long as you do it slowly over 2-3 weeks. I use a canister filter myself and I make sure to clean it out once a week with my water change along with cleaning the filter pads that I usually replace every 3-4 weeks. Mine is a 4-stage filter so I have it setup like this (I use all Brightwell Aquatics products + Algone):

 

Stage 1: Filter Pad (to trap detritus/debris)

Stage 2: Xport-Bio both sides (removes ammonia/nitrite)

Stage 3: Xport-NO3 on right side (removes nitrate), Algone on left side (removes ammonia/nitrate)

Stage 4: ExtraxPhos on right side (removes phosphate) , IonitR mixed with NitratR on left side (removes dissolved organics/toxins/nitrate)

 

This allows me to feed frozen food daily/keep a larger bioload without having any excess nutrients leftover in my tank.

 

@CronicReefer, thanks for your explanation. up coming weekend will start to remove slowly the media. Your stage is from top to bottom or bottom to top ?

 

 

Canisters must be stripped and cleaned regularly including washing out the canister its self.

 

Over here in the UK a lot of people put live rock rubble in their external canister filters with some filter wool to 'polish' the water and chemical media such as rowaphos and the like as already suggested.

Again when you do a water change the canister needs to be stripped down, Live rock rubble washed through with old tank water to flush the waste build up out of it (don't use fresh/RO water on the rock rubble as this will kill the bacteria) and the canister washed out.

 

How much live rock have you got in your display? It looks like tonga branches.

Very cool, but also very dense and heavy so don't provide very good filtration as there are not as many micro pours and holes for bacteria to colonise deep in the rock.

 

While it is possible to and many people do successfully keep marine systems on external canister filters, they are a lot more work to maintain than running a sump.

Sumped systems still need maintenance and cleaning, but they don't trap waste the same way and you can keep macro algae's in a lit area which will absorb NO3 and PO4. NO2 is broken down by bacteria colonising deep in the live rock, which as I have said, if your rock is very dense it will not host as much bacteria and you need to find an alternative way of supporting it.

 

Finally, how much are you feeding?

Bear in mind a fishes stomach is about the size of its eye as a rough guide.

This means you don't have to feed much to keep you fish happy. Fish will continue to take food even when they are full, but they will not be swallowing it, it just comes back out of their gills as a fine powder and pollutes the tank.

Also in marine tanks most fish will graze on the live rock and the tiny creatures that live on it between meals, I know people (me included) try and feed little and often, but I know others who feed every other day with no ill affects. Only 2 fish and not much in the way of coral etc won't need much feeding.

 

@benny Thank you for your clear and helpful explanation,

 

Q1 : How much live rock have you got in your display ?

 

As you see in my picture i have two small rock and one big , ( i will try to attach the new picture )

 

Do i need to change the live rock ?

 

Q2 : How much are you feeding ?

 

I do feed my fish every morning ( 10 small pieces dry food (Tetra Brand) )

[CronicReefer]

 

@CronicReefer, thanks for your explanation. up coming weekend will start to remove slowly the media. Your stage is from top to bottom or bottom to top ?

 

My canister pulls water through the filter pads on the left side of the canister to the bottom and then pulls it back up through the media baskets to the top on the right side (I have a Fluval 306 btw). Each media basket is divided in two sections so I have my media divided up so ammonia/nitrite reduction occurs first, followed by nitrate, followed by phosphate/dissolved organics, this order is important. I would get rid of the black sponge and switch out the ceramic rings for something like Seachem Matrix or if you can get Brightwell products I highly recommend them. Also make sure your filter pads are before the bio-media so detritus doesn't get trapped inside.

[Benny314]

Being in the UK we working in kg not lb, the rule of thumb is 1kg to every 10 litres of water. My display is 330 litres and I have 37kg of live rock (2 large toga branches in there so they bump the weight up) and about 2kg or rock rubble and odds and ends in the sump, I also have about a kg of lava rock stuff that you some times see as bio media in external canisters. I got given it so I chucked it in for good mesure.

 

Like I said that is a rule of thumb, I have seen display tanks with no live rock at all and just a sandy bottom, but they normally have a massive sump with the rock in or some alternative.

That tank doesn't look huge, if you canister is big enough you could probably get enough rubble rock in there to make up for the reduced amount in your display.

One thing I will say is the bacteria that remove NO2 live deep in rock where there is little oxygen, so really small bits of rock rubble won't be as much use.

 

You've got a cool little aquascape going there, I wouldn't change it if your happy with how it looks. But there is no harm in mixing it up and changing it around if you find a really cool piece of rock you want in there.

Instead, slow down.
Don't add any more fish until your ammonia cycle has completed and settled, you'll still be in the end stages if you have NO2.

Maybe look at including some sort of macro algae (not an invasive type) or mangroves in your display to help with NO3 and PO4 export as well as establishing a regular water change and cleaning routine.

 

As for feeding, dry flake and pellet foods are a nightmare source of PO4 when over fed which could cause problems down the line.

You don't need to feed as much as you are, especially with your current NO2 and NO3 problems.

2 or 3 little flakes once or twice a day should be fine for 2 small fish. Monitor how they feed and watch for them getting thin, also maybe try and get hold of some frozen offerings so you can change up their diet and give the fish some different things to keep them healthy.

Frozen normally comes in cubes, so use a knife and dig a little bit out of a cube when you want to feed with it and let it defrost in tank water in a cup for a while, your fish will love you for it.

Also if you can get hold of live pods, float the bag and try and acclimate the pods to your tank temp before introducing them, then the ones that don't get instantly eaten will have a chance to start reproducing in your tank and become a self substaining food source for your fish to graze on.

 

Good luck.

[talebi]

Guys,

 

After read all those perfect suggestion, I manage to reduce my salt water No3 bellow 25 ( Sera Test Kit )

 

feeling good, will try to reach to 0 ..

 

Once again thanks

[Benny314]

Nicely done.

 

Remember softies and some LPS prefer some nutrients in the water 5-15ppm is perfectly fine.

Less is best, but consistancy is what your gunning for with all your levels, so don't risk throwing things out of balance just to get you NO3 down.

 

Happy reefing.

[talebi]

Thanks for reply,

 

Do i need to wait for NO3 drop to 5 -15 ppm or i can start to buy coral ...

 

and one more things i still have green algae on my live rock, do i have to clean them or just leave it ?

 

thanks

[Benny314]

Soft corals are fairly forgiving, so no reason you can't give a few a crack. It's SPS and some LPS that are picky about water conditions.

The algae maybe using up the NO3 hiding it from your tests.

If you truly have fixed the NO3 problem then the algae will slowly go away, but if NO3 is still in abundance then the algae will grow and spread.

You will always get some algae growth as all reefs suport it, but in an aquarium situation it quickly becomes a nuiscance, CUC will eat it and help control it, but as I said if NO3 and PO4 is high the algae will grow quicker than anything can eat it and some algaes aren't readily eaten by things, google bryopsis hair algae.

[talebi]

Guys,

 

finally I manage to reduce my No3 to 0 for last week ... last week I bought new coral ( Green Hammer ) for first 3day every things was okay and nice , but after 4day my aquarium water start to be cloudy ( white Cloudy ).

 

So I had change 30% water and also replace new carbon.. but still cloudy ...

 

Any suggestion ?

 

thanks

 

[Benny314]

Bacteria bloom? Looks like you've lost a head on that hammer too? Left hand side. Did you get it like that?

[talebi]

Yeah i lost it ... and its hard im not able to remove it ...

[Benny314]

Yeah it's the calcium skeleton, you need to cut it off with a hacksaw or use a cutting blade on a dremel thing. Do you know why the head died? It dying could have caused the bloom as it's clearly in a small tank, check your parameters. You might be having a mini cycle that could kill other things you have.

[talebi]

how do i cut it with hacksaw ... ?? got another 3 head .. is a bit hard to do.. my water parameters is okay just my KH a bit high (13)

 

regular water change will be help or not ?

 

Any way thanks for ur help ..

[Benny314]

Utube some videos about fragging branching touches, frogspawns and hammers, their skeletons are all similar.

Yes a water change will probably help, maybe 20% every other day for a week or so to see if that clears it and make sure the tank doesn't suddenly go toxic and kill the rest of you inhabitants.

Have you got enough light in the tank to support the hammer?

[Juuls]

looks like a great set up, I like the rock placement and am following your tanks development.

I hope you can sort out the bloom and must say top notch information and advice, I have enjoyed reading this for many management ideas.

[talebi]

Utube some videos about fragging branching touches, frogspawns and hammers, their skeletons are all similar.

Yes a water change will probably help, maybe 20% every other day for a week or so to see if that clears it and make sure the tank doesn't suddenly go toxic and kill the rest of you inhabitants.

Have you got enough light in the tank to support the hammer?

 

Thanks benny , finally i cut it out and also separate other 2 head to small prices... currently the are close ... i dont know, i will lost them or not !!!

 

I got T5 light ( 1 Blue and 1 white )

 

I had attached the picture ...

 

 

looks like a great set up, I like the rock placement and am following your tanks development.

I hope you can sort out the bloom and must say top notch information and advice, I have enjoyed reading this for many management ideas.

 

Juuls, thanks for your kindly comment ... actually i like the challenge of this hobby, make me busy and enjoy .

 

Any way Benny helps a lot with his great suggestion and advise .

[Benny314]

Fragging is pretty traumatic, the coral from those pics just looks pissed off. Unless it was looking bad like this before you fraged you probably don't need to worry, it'll come round in a day or so.

How deep is the tank? That might not be enough lighting to reach that deep, once the coral is less annoied you might want to raise it half way up the tank for a little while and see how it does, if it looks happier and improves then you need to consider your coral choices revolving around your current lighting until you upgrade the lighting your using.

 

 

 

 

Thanks benny , finally i cut it out and also separate other 2 head to small prices... currently the are close ... i dont know, i will lost them or not !!!

 

 

 

Any way Benny helps a lot with his great suggestion and advise .

 

Glad my random ramblings are helpful.

[talebi]

OKok ... noted with thanks ... I will wait till tomorrow and then will move it to top of my live rock