teenyreef Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Does anybody else have as much trouble using the Hanna phosphorus checker as I do? I just spent a good thirty minutes trying to get two simple measurements. First try: I did almost everything right, didn't even spill too much powder. I started the five minute timer on the checker and went off to scrape some algae. Forgot about it for ten minutes and it had turned off when I got back Second try: got everything right, started the timer on the checker, and started a SECOND timer on my phone so I would remember to read the measurement on the checker when the timer is up. Third try: forgot to HOLD the button on step C2 to start the five minute timer, so it measured right away instead of waiting five minutes. Fourth try: finally got it right. Held the button, set another timer, sat there and watched it count down. Now I'm looking at four used packets of reagent powder to get two measurements. And while I'm on a rant, those narrow bottles are a real PITA to get clean. I get really tired of carefully rolling a paper towel and spinning it around in the bottle. Especially after the fourth time And as a bonus, don't even get me started on the Hanna calcium checker. Even after following every hint on the web on using just the right water and measuring just the right way, I've never gotten the same measurement twice, and it's never been even close to accurate. I've thought about selling them but I'd feel too guilty to take any money for them. Can anyone tell me if the Salifert phosphate kit is decent? I know the API tester isn't accurate enough, and that's the only other one I have right now. Quote Link to comment
Hexadron Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I thought I was the only one! Actually to be honest besides the stupid reagents, I don't have too hard of a time, but do use both vials (one just tank water, other one tank water + reagent) as it seems that even going super speed, sometimes it times out. UGH. I've given up on the calcium checker and haven't used it in at least a year. Why on earth don't they put their reagents in these?! Those tube-like sugar packets you see. I haven't has much luck with the Red Sea Phosphate test kit unfortunately, as it always says I have 0 even when I know my phosphate is creeping up there. Never tried Salifert. 2 Quote Link to comment
seabass Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yeah, it's not ideal, but the phosphorus checker will get you in the right ballpark. You'll get used to using it, and it won't bug you so much. If you miss the reading, just run it again by first using the other vial with tank water for sample 1, and then use the vial with the reagent already in it for sample 2; but press (not hold) the button to retake the reading immediately.I only use their alkalinity and phosphorus checkers. 1 Quote Link to comment
yoshii Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Their phosphate checker is definitely a pain. I hate the little reagent packets the most, I'd always worry about spilling or not getting it all outI only use the Alk Hanna checker, and Salifert for everything else, Salifert is definitely my favorite test kit brand. I would use it for alk too but I got the Hanna checker as a gift 2 Quote Link to comment
teenyreef Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 In the interest of full and fair disclosure, I do use the Hanna alk checker regularly. My only complaint there is cleaning the bottles and how quickly the reagent runs out. Oh, and having to do math to convert to dKh, but that's just because I prefer to use that measurement, not because of anything wrong with the checker. But on the other hand, my Salifert alkalinity checker always read almost exactly the same as the Hanna and is a little quicker to use and to clean. Yeah, it's not ideal, but the phosphorus checker will get you in the right ballpark. You'll get used to using it, and it won't bug you so much. If you do just miss the reading, just run it again by first using the other vial with tank water, and then use the second vial with the reagent already in it (but don't press and hold, which will retake the reading immediately).I only use their alkalinity and phosphorus checkers. I agree. I've had mine for several months but I only use it about once a month. If I used it more often it would go a lot more smoothly. The only problem I had with using the other bottle for tank water is that it was still full of used water from the previous measurement. Which leads back to my complaint about cleaning the bottles As long as the results are accurate, I'm don't feel like I'm being ripped off, it's just a PITA. It would have been so easy to make this thing a clear winner. Use a different packet for the powder, and fix the stupid programming to automate the timer and lengthen the power off setting. 1 Quote Link to comment
seabass Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I agree, liquid reagent or even tubes of powder would be better. And the power off setting is ridiculously short, which is such an easy fix to make. A number of people have made these suggestions, but they haven't made either of these changes yet. If there was a decent alternative that gave the same resolution and was as easy to read, I might consider switching.I have to warn you about not cleaning the bottles right away. The reagent will stain them which might affect the results (especially if you don't use the same bottle for both samples). I just use RO/DI to rinse, then fill the vials with RO/DI and store upright until the next test. 1 Quote Link to comment
Wiinberg Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I sold my Hanna checker for a Gilbers Reef Analytics instead, since the Hanna gave me very inconsistent results. Rowa for Po4 is good too. Salifert Po4 is no good, you would get similar results by just smelling your water and take a guess. Quote Link to comment
basser1 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Guys are making too big of a deal on the powders. All you have to do is take the packet and cut along the top and one edge of the packet. Open the packet and squeeze in the opposite corners and you created a funnel for the powder to empty in the vials. Takes all of maybe 10 seconds to do, and I haven't lost any powder. BTW, for someone like me who has problems distinguishing subtle color changes, they work great for me. While they may not be 100% accurate, they do get you in the ballpark. As far as calculating and doing math for Alk, here's a much easier way: http://www.saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/AlkConv.php Then I go here to figure out how much I need to dose: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-calculator#1 1 Quote Link to comment
jservedio Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 It gets alot easier - the first 5 or 6 times is really difficult, but once you get the hang of it, you won't ever waste a packet. Plus, as long as your expecting a measurement below 50 or 60ppb (you definitely should!), you can get away with even a decent amount spilled because of the way the test works. Try doing this - have the packet out and pre-cut. Instead of just cutting along the dotted line, cut two adjacent sides and then pull the flaps apart at the corner. Fold one of the flaps so it makes almost like a little funnel. Flick the bottom where the reagent is a few times to loosen it up. Now, you can get all of the reagent in the vial in less than 10 seconds. Pre-fill your vial before you turn the checker on and let it sit a minute or two so there are no air bubbles. Put it in the checker, for C1 with the "10ml" text facing forward and once it is ready for C2, pull it out, dump the reagent in, cap it, and shake it for 90 seconds very vigorously. Then, stop and invert it slowly 20 or 30 times (for 30-40 seconds) to make sure all the bubbles stuck to the glass are gone. Put it back in with teh "10ml" text facing forward and hold for the countdown. If you do that, you will only use a single vial (making sure the results are as accurate as possible), won't spill reagent, and have a good minute before you have to worry about it turning off. I've been doing that for a year now and haven't had to redo the test once and never had to use 2 vials. 2 Quote Link to comment
Hannainstruments Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Hello Everyone, I am sorry that you have had a bad experience using our reagent packets, we will take your feedback into consideration. We especially like JDH's idea of the sugar packet type of reagent packets! In the meantime, we do have a tutorial video on how to use our reagent packets here Why on earth don't they put their reagents in these?! Those tube-like sugar packets you see. Thank you for your feedback and suggestions! If you have any additional questions or suggestions please feel free to send us a message. Have a great day! Hanna Instruments USA 4 Quote Link to comment
seabass Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'm glad that you came to visit us! Welcome to N-R.com. It would be awesome if we could help you make your products more attractive to reef keepers. Besides changing the reagent packaging, I'd like to see the following changes: After placing the 2nd sample, a simple press (not press and hold) would start the countdown; and pressing and holding after the 2nd sample would take the reading without the countdown. Instead of powering off the unit right away, maybe it could just power off the display (and pressing the button would wake up the display so you could still view the result); and the unit would power off completely after a minute. But if a screen saver mode is unpractical, a little more time before shutoff would be nice. It would also be nice if it could beep after the countdown has finished. 1 Quote Link to comment
teenyreef Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Thanks for checking in, Hannainstruments! I'd like to emphasize that while I think the reagent repackaging would be helpful, the real point of my whining was the wasted time and effort that I went through simply because of the logic of the button pushing and very short power off period. I would emphasize the points that seabass made above to change the operation of the instrument. That would make a huge difference in the overall usefulness of the product. Quote Link to comment
teenyreef Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 For those following along, I wanted to let you know that Hannainstruments PM'd me to offer a new set of reagent packets at no charge. So while my tester may hate me, at least the manufacturer doesn't, and I give them two thumbs up for customer service I will continue using the tester and hopefully I'll get enough practice that I won't mess it up any more. Hopefully the suggestions made on this thread will help improve the product some day in the future. 2 Quote Link to comment
Hexadron Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Teenyreef saves the world yet again! Glad to hear Hanna is here to help, and I seriously hope the "sugar packet" idea happens. I'll expect my cheque when it does 2 Quote Link to comment
Tinpanva Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I actually love the ULS Phosphorus checker, I also have the standard Po4 hanna checker and it never reads anything but 0.00 for me. Unless I'm testing the QT then I can read some Po4. I don't use both vials, fill one, calibrate, add reagent and mix for 2 mins. Hint: have the reagent cut open already to cut down on time. Hanna powers off after 3 mins. Usually takes me 30 seconds to add the reagent, 2 mins of mixing, another 5 seconds of wiping off the vial with a cloth, leaves me a good 20 seconds of spare time. lol. Last weeks reading was 1 ppb (1 x 3.066 / 1000 = 0.003 Po4. Not bad. 1 Quote Link to comment
Mojado Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I actually love the ULS Phosphorus checker, I also have the standard Po4 hanna checker and it never reads anything but 0.00 for me. Unless I'm testing the QT then I can read some Po4. I don't use both vials, fill one, calibrate, add reagent and mix for 2 mins. Hint: have the reagent cut open already to cut down on time. Hanna powers off after 3 mins. Usually takes me 30 seconds to add the reagent, 2 mins of mixing, another 5 seconds of wiping off the vial with a cloth, leaves me a good 20 seconds of spare time. lol. Last weeks reading was 1 ppb (1 x 3.066 / 1000 = 0.003 Po4. Not bad. Mine actually times out at slightly more than 3:15. So the "sonic the hedgehog is running out of air and getting ready to drown" music starts playing in my head at 3:00, but I know I have at least until 3:15 to hit the button. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tinpanva Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 ROFLMAO - The sonic the hedgehog music thing is spot on, never thought of it that way, but yeah, it's like that. Quote Link to comment
NYfishies Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I actually love the ULS Phosphorus checker, I also have the standard Po4 hanna checker and it never reads anything but 0.00 for me. Unless I'm testing the QT then I can read some Po4. I don't use both vials, fill one, calibrate, add reagent and mix for 2 mins. Hint: have the reagent cut open already to cut down on time. Hanna powers off after 3 mins. Usually takes me 30 seconds to add the reagent, 2 mins of mixing, another 5 seconds of wiping off the vial with a cloth, leaves me a good 20 seconds of spare time. lol. Last weeks reading was 1 ppb (1 x 3.066 / 1000 = 0.003 Po4. Not bad. I have the Phosphate Low Range Colorimeter HI713 Hanna Checker HC and it always reads 0.00. I do not believe that it is accurate even though I do believe I am doing the steps perfectly. I can do it with 1 vial in the time provided (with practice and preparation). I suppose I will need to also buy the HI736 Phosphorus Ultra Low Range Checker which you use to find any Phos at all. Are we the only ones who have this issue with the normal checker not finding any Phos levels? Quote Link to comment
Tinpanva Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I knew it was wrong, even though it was reading 0.00, I had small areas of algae, snails eat it all but still, if I can grow algae, I have Po4. I just think, once they get low enough the 713 checker will not see it. Plus, the 713's accuracy is +/- 0.04 ppm and the 736 is +/- 5 ppb. I'm trying to keep Po4 below .03 and it has a +/- of .04, just not good enough for me. 1 Quote Link to comment
NYfishies Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I knew it was wrong, even though it was reading 0.00, I had small areas of algae, snails eat it all but still, if I can grow algae, I have Po4. I just think, once they get low enough the 713 checker will not see it. Plus, the 713's accuracy is +/- 0.04 ppm and the 736 is +/- 5 ppb. I'm trying to keep Po4 below .03 and it has a +/- of .04, just not good enough for me. You and I are on the same page. I have cyano growing daily on the sand bed and rocks yet 0 Phos? I think not. It is driving me nuts cleaning it! I am leaning towards buying the Hanna ultra low range, but before I do are there any other reliable alternatives for testing Phos? My Hanna Calcium and Alkalinity checkers seem to work fine and are just as easy as the Phos checker to use. I like Hanna, but I like accurate Phos reading more. Quote Link to comment
Tinpanva Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Personally, I don't think you can get a better Po4 checker than the ULS, you'll have to do a little math to convert it from ppb into ppm. But no biggie, I have the Red Sea Pro kit, but to be honest, trying to read 5 different shades of yellow/green with my tired old eyes just ain't cutting it. To me, .02 looks exactly the same as .04 on the color wheel. I've used the seachem test kit, and like it alot, but only for reading higher levels of Po4. I'm trying to run an ULNS. I also use the hanna for Alk, I didn't care for the Calcium checker and just stick to the red sea pro for that. 1 Quote Link to comment
NYfishies Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Appreciate your input. I will pick up the Hanna ULS. I also use Red Sea for Calcium/Alk to spot check the Hanna. Agree on the color wheel and I would like to "think" that I am still young! Quote Link to comment
seabass Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 ... you'll have to do a little math to convert it from ppb into ppm. But no biggie No need to convert, just think of the range you want in ppb of phosphorus. 3 to 10 ppb of phosphorus is the range that you are shooting for (which is approximately 0.01 to 0.03 ppm of phosphate). I think it's actually easier to remember that you don't want it to go above 10 ppb. Quote Link to comment
Tinpanva Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 True enough, I'm just so used to thinking in terms of ppm, that and I log it into my online log that way as well, but it's not necessary. Quote Link to comment
SpankythePyro Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I'm about to buy a HI checker, should I get the ULS Phosphate or Phosphorous? I initially was going to grab the Po4 but hearing about the Phosphorous being a little better and just having to convert that is a possibility now too. Thanks ya'll Quote Link to comment
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